edzo

yeah, this german owned grocery company does have good eats. almonds and flax spaghetti, and the ezekiel bread is all i buy there. good stuff, and cheaper than whole foods

lfv

Don't most of the soy milks out there say they have as much calcium as regular milk?

jamesstout

it is added in again thus not absorbed liek natural calcium in milk

Bixid

>Yes, milk contains calcium, but don't be fooled by the amount of calcium listed on the label. Just because something contains much calcium does not mean your body can easily absorb it. Unlike plant protein, the ANIMAL PROTEIN ACCOMPANYING COW'S MILK, TENDS TO LEACH CALCIUM FROM THE BONES & passes it out of your body through urine. (Remer T, Manz F. Estimation of the renal net acid excretion by adults consuming diets containing variable amounts of protein. Am J Clin Nutr 1994;59:1356-61.)

> 12-year Harvard study of 78,000 women: the chances of breaking bones INCREASED the more milk they drank (Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year prospective study. Am J Publ Health 1997;87:992-7)

> Australian study of men & women: those who drank more milk had DOUBLE the risk of fractures than those drank the least amount of milk (Cumming RG, Klineberg RJ. Case-control study of risk factors for hip fractures in the elderly. Am J Epidemiol 1994;139:493-503.)

If you are looking for easily absorbed calcium, dark green leafy vegetables, such as collard greens & kale are the best sources. Of course there are more convenient products like soy "milk" which contain complete, high quality protein & calcium. And yes, they can be fortified w/ more calcium to "compete" w/ milk. Just because it is fortified, does not make it any less absorbed.

> Saturated animal fats are not bad for you? Guess it's some kinda revisionist medical theory I don't know about...

> Got Mucus?
"Dairy is a tremendous mucus producer and a burden on the respiratory, digestive, and immune systems." Christiane Northrup, M.D.

"The fact is: The drinking of cow milk has been linked to iron-deficiency anemia in infants and children; it has been named as the cause of cramps and diarrhea in much of the world’s population, and the cause of multiple forms of allergy as well."
(Frank Oski, M.D., the former director of the Department of Pediatrics of Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and physician-in-chief of the Johns Hopkins Children’s Center)

After milk was removed from their diet, up to one third of children ceased having allergies. (American Academy of Allergy and Immunology Committee on Adverse Reactions to Food National Institutes of Health)

>You do not need cow's milk to get Vit. D. 15 min of direct exposure to sunlight is all you need per day. Ask any doctor (except those funded by the sunscreen industry that teaches us to fear sunlight all day).

> Humans are the only species that chooses to drink animal milk beyond weening (other animals only drink it because we give it to them, ever seen a cat milking a cow?) Also humans are the only ones who chooses to forcibly harvest & drink the milk of other animals, especially the kind designed for the offspring of a much larger species.

jamesstout

i refer you to Milk tastes nice, ice cream tastes better soy stuff tastes shi* James stout et al 2007

Bixid

Where your milk really comes from.

https://www.torturedcows.com/dairy/23/Milk_myths.htm

Btw, as I am new to this forum, not sure if the goal of it is to aim for the lowest common denominator instead of intelligent discussions. But I choose not to sink to such levels.

Oh, factually speaking, cow's milk is contaminated w/ fecal matter, y-u-m. Sure, it may be pasteurized, but sanitized fecal matter is still fecal matter.

Excerpt from a patent file of a product FOR the dairy industry:
"When humans keep animals for their ability to produce milk, the animals are usually kept in confined spaces. As a result of this confinement the animals are exposed to high levels of urine and fecal matter which originated with the animals which are being kept. This exposure contaminates the animal and in particular the udder and teats of the animal, with bacteria. In the milking process this bacteria can further contaminate the milk which is destine for human consumption. The bacteria can further cause mastitis in the bovine."

Bixid

---------------------------Soy milk------------------ Cow's Milk
---------------------------(made from whole
---------------------------organic soybeans)
Complete protein,
all 8 essential amino acids---YES ------------------------YES

Low saturated fat-----------YES-------------------------NO

High polyunsaturated fat-----YES-------------------------NO

Cholesterol free--------------YES-------------------------NO

Constant
Fecal matter-----------------NO-------------------------YES
contamination
in production

Contains Pus-----------------NO-------------------------YES

Isoflavones, providing---------YES--------------------------NO
* Reduced risk of
cardiovascular disease
* Enhanced bone health
* A reduced risk of certain
cancers e.g., prostate cancer
* Decreased menopausal
symptoms

UmneyDurak

Avoid Soy

jamesstout

aah yes the resource which all educated enquiries make top of their list torturedcows.com the home of unbiased information.....

as the son of an agriculture lecturer and a worker ona dairy farm i can confirm suprise suprise that your resource is (appropriatley enough) bullsh*t. If cows get mastitis they can't be milked if they can't be milked they cant make money so why why why would a dairy farmer let his cows get mastitis?

furthermore my cows dont live on bits of chopped down rainforest - your soybeans do

your little yes/np chart could have looked at low fat orgainc milk - it contains omega 3 fats less saturated fat and it doesnt have to be flown halfway across the globe...

Bixid

worker on a dairy farm the home of unbiased information...
I don't work for/related to anyone in any agri industry, btw. I have visited plenty of farms though, even the so-called oximoronic "humane" farms.

1) I didn't use torturedcows.com as a resource, I added the link later to show how the vast majority of these animals are treated, such as in this video, with real footage which compares & contrasts what the dairy industry wants people to believe vs. the reality.

The quote about the fecal contamination & mastitis was an excerpt from a patent for an agricultural product that actually SUPPORTS the dairy industry, so if anything, the person who wrote the patent was actually biased FOR the dairy industry.

You prove my point by taking a factual statement & seeing it as a negative p.o.v. on the dairy industry.

2) "my cows dont live on bits of chopped down rainforest - your soybeans do"

I'm sure your cows don't, last I checked, there are no rain forests in the UK. But, in countries where there are rain forests, they do cut down rain forests to pasture cows in South America.

I have been pretty clear in recommending organic soy, which is grown using sustainable methods...

Yes, due to the increased profitability of soybeans, as well as corn, more are starting to be planted where the cows used to pasture. However, the U.S. is the main producer of soybeans (not much rain forest here either).

Still, a disproportionate amount of land is wasted on growing feed to support animal agribusiness rather than humans, so cows do actually live off of the rain forest & other arable land. Nearly half the world's grains & soybeans are used as feed for animal agriculture.

If you're so concerned about the environmental ramifications of an animal-based diet v. plant-based...according to the U.N. & numerous international scientific studies, animal agribusiness produces more greenhouse gases that are responsible for global warming than automobiles. Your own government recommended switching to a veg diet for the sake of our environment.

3) "your little yes/np chart could have looked at low fat orgainc milk - it contains omega 3 fats less saturated fat"

Hardly.
Btw, Soy contains naturally occurring omega-3 fatty acid.

---------------------------Soy milk------------------ Cow's Milk
---------------------------(made from whole---------(organic)
---------------------------organic soybeans)


Contains animal protein------NO----------------------YES
that leaches calcium
from bones

High polyunsaturated fat-----YES-------------------------NO

Cholesterol free--------------YES-------------------------NO

Constant
Fecal matter-----------------NO-------------------------YES
contamination
in production

Contains Pus-----------------NO-------------------------YES

Isoflavones, providing---------YES--------------------------NO
* Reduced risk of
cardiovascular disease
* Enhanced bone health
* A reduced risk of certain
cancers e.g., prostate cancer
* Decreased menopausal
symptoms

urodacus

bixid sounds like he/she needs to realize that not all people are allergic to milk. for the small percentage who do have problems, well don't drink it. for everyone else, it's a great source of many things including protein, which carries the calcium you need. if you're lactose intolerant: don't drink it. D'uh. it's not rocket science. and much of your quoted facts are not good science either: they look a bit biased to me.

the rapid growth of soy farms around the world contributes to global warming and rainforest destruction, BTW. and how much of your soy is GM produce, though not revealed to you on the label... the majority of soy these days is GM product. just the exact kind of factoids a soy-promoter like you should bone up on.

sat fats are OK in small amounts. your body loves to burn up sat fats when you cycle: in fact, most of your aerobic energy conversion comes from exactly that: burning the two carbion chunks that are preferentially cleaved from saturated fats in your mitochondria in a porocess known as beta-oxidation. there is no point in avoiding the fats in a glass of milk if you then go out and have a few burgers or a cheesecake or whatever, anyway.

for those who have problems with the idea of fecal matter on food, grow up. you put all kkinds of crap into your mouth all day just from being a living breathing person. after all, you drink water, don't you? fish sh1t in water, and they even have sex in it, all the time!

besides, soy milk tastes like crap. and I should know: i live in taiwan, and the stuff is everywhere. and as if soy milk was not bad enough, you should try living with the stench of stinky tofu factories or street stalls. and some of the rubbish i could tell you about what happens during the creation of your favoured beverage would make you run right back to the tit for your daily suckle.

slyjackson

Yesterday about 11:30 pm I had a nice tall glass of chocolate milk and went to bed.(Big Mistake) About 12:45 I woke up and have been up ever since. Even now as I type this post I do not feel tired at all. One large glass of Chocolate milk has me "Wound up tighter than a banjo string". I had no idea this stuff has so much punch. It works better than a gel....

felt1

Other than recovery, I drink chocolate milk because it tastes good. Why the hell would anybody want to ruin a good thing by adding soy. Soy tastes like a bowl (or glass for that matter) of crap. No science needed!

EJ123

Milk? Yuck. Doesn't milk promote mucus? How about chocolate rice milk, or better yet, oat milk!

Bixid

You're right EJ123, mucous galor, plus a dallop of cow pus. The excess production of mucous is why ANY allergies, of people who stop consuming dairy products, usually clear up (I'm not just talking about milk allergies BTW). Any plant-based "milk" is superior in nutritional value (where do these milk pushers think cows get their protein from?). Rice milk is a bit bland to me, but almond milk is to die for

Yeah, those scientists at Harvard (what are they thinking proving that milk protein actually inhibits the absorption of calcium??), director of pediatrics at Johns Hopkins, the United Nations, etc, real quacks aren't they? And what about that Dave Scott, five time winner of the Ironman Triathlon, what's he thinking when he remained vegan & went on to win all those competitions? What a weirdo.

Where exactly did I state that all people are allergic to milk? If you want to continue to consume calcium-leaching, pus-filled, cholesterol-laden, fecal-matter, e-coli contaminated cow's milk: drink it. D'uh. It's not rocket science. I'm merely presenting the facts, take it or leave it. No one's force-feeding you w/ a metal tube down your throat as they do to geese to make foi gras, are they?

Um, if you'd actually read (not skimmed) my last post, I already addressed this BS. Okay, one last time:

I ADVOCATE ORGANIC FOODS & HAVE BEEN CLEAR IN RECOMMENDING ORGANIC SOY, SUSTAINABLY PRODUCED & NON-GMO. I DO NOT RECOMMEND NOR CONSUME SOY PRODUCED IN THE RAIN FOREST.

As for NON-ORGANIC soy, NEARLY HALF OF IT GOES TO FEED COWS & OTHER FARM ANIMALS, SO YOU SHOULD LOOK IN THE MIRROR BEFORE POINTING FINGERS. Any environmental impact of of ORGANIC soy production pales in comparison to the environmental impact of raising billions of farm animals.

I'll take the United Nation's & major universities' studies over your unsubstantiated claims, thanks.


Where did I advocate the elimination of fat from the diet? Of course we need fat in our diets, but the point is to eliminate the bad fats & increase the good fats. Fact is, cow's milk will always contain bad fats, while pure, organic soy "milk" will always contain good fats, such as omega-3 & polyunsaturated.

Hm, sounds like Taiwan is in need of some infrastructure overhaul if that's the only kind of water available to you.



Egads! First, the water & now soy! Poor Taiwan. So glad I get my food from organic & sanitary facilites in the U.S., which I've visited BTW & they smell just lovely.

Since it seems customary here to interject w/ irrelevant & puerile opinions...cow's milk taste like crap. And I should know: I live in the U.S. and the stuff is everywhere!


You mean like this?

Go ahead if you're so inclined, but I'll stick to wholesome, organic food that doesn't exploit animals, thanks.



Anyways, it's been real fun, but I'll be blocking said members as I've pretty much addressed every issue thrown at me w/ REAL, constructive facts, not half-baked claims. If y'all want to continue running around in circles, with redundant, baseless claims, like a dog chasing his tail...

CdCf

Hey, Bixid, cool down a little. Drinking milk from farm animals is something humans have done for thousands of years. Most people drink milk without any ill effects at all. A small number of individuals are allergic to milk (protein) and a somewhat larger number of people are lactose intolerant (not allergic, they just lack an enzyme required to break down lactose). Those who can't drink milk for medical reasons shouldn't, of course. For the rest of us, it's a choice that is up to us. If you prefer soy milk, that's fine. I prefer cow's milk, and there are no health concerns regarding milk consumption, despite your endless comments about pus and fecal matter. Milk is pasteurised prior to packaging, so it's quite safe to drink, unless you go way past the expiry date.

Organic produce doesn't equal perfect safety either. Dead organisms in fields and mold growth during storage and transportation are real health issues as well. Anything that's grown near the ground should be rinsed thoroughly before consumption, to wash away bacteria and parasites that often reside in leafy vegetables (cabbage, leeks, et c). And so on... Food from animals isn't inherently bad, and food not from animals isn't inherently safe, is the point I want to make.

We all have our pet issues, and it's often hard to accept that other people don't see the same thing we ourselves do. There is no absolute truth. We have to find our own path and accept that other people choose other paths.

Jarery

Your going to block every person who responded and didnt agree with you?

UmneyDurak

A sign of a true believer. lol.

telebianchi

I like skim milk on my Raisin Total, in my oatmeal and in my coffee (ok, I prefer whole or 1/2&1/2 for the coffee but don't want to use up my daily fat ration on that).

I like soy milk (vanilla's my fav) after a long ride. After a couple hours on the road, regular milk tastes bad to me and gives me an upset stomach. Soy milk tastes good with no ill effects.

Can't we all just get along?

felt1

[quote=Bixid;5211076]You're right EJ123, mucous galor, plus a dallop of cow pus. The excess production of mucous is why ANY allergies, of people who stop consuming dairy products, usually clear up (I'm not just talking about milk allergies BTW). Any plant-based "milk" is superior in nutritional value (where do these milk pushers think cows get their protein from?). Rice milk is a bit bland to me, but almond milk is to die for[quote=Bixid;5211076] I thought plants grow in cow sh--it. I mean where do plants get their protein?. I don't know about you guys, but I have never had E.coli poisoning or a case of hepatitis A( https://www.ecrmc.org/e_news_pdf/Hlth...ol2-Issue5.pdf ) from not washing my milk. I eat a lot of plants, I'm not against eating plant, I'm just saying.

nymtber

does SOY have branched chain amino acids like whey protein does? im going to venture a guess that they dont. I feel sorry for all you damn animal loving vegans that dont eat meat, but then again thanks for saving the meat and milk and cheese and eggs for those of us that realize animals were put on this earth for humans to enjoy.

by the way Venison (yep, dead DEER ) is delicious. a small venison steak with some mixed veggies and maybe a few potatoes would be a good post ride recovery...meal...

personally i just drink water and sometimes a protein shake (WHEY Protein) after a ride if im really tired. then ill grab a banana or slice of toast or something of the sort for a few carbs...

Milk doesnt bother me one bit. and it doesnt make me fat because i drink NON FAT (skim) milk. taste better to me. whole milk should be avoided by inactive people!!! but skim milk is fine, a few glasses a day that is

Bixid

I have no problem w/ dissenting, yet INTELLIGENT & SUBSTANTIATED posts w/ SOMETHING NEW TO ADD, as well as personal preferences, but those who have nothing constructive to add except expletives, puerile "soy tastes like crap," & passing off regurgitated, half-baked opinion as fact, yep, they're blocked.


Thank you. See, that wasn't so hard, was it? No expletives, no puerile commentary, nor milk industry BS. When I first posted my innocent little comment that I like choco Silk, I was not expecting to have to defend my preference, but then the the cow's milk pushers began bashing soy milk...wonder why they're so touchy. Now turning into vegan bashing w/ the nymtber's post, guess haters just want to hate.
Peace.

UmneyDurak

Why is every question regarding milk deteriorates to "Milk is evil, drink soy stuff."

urodacus

bixid: you sound like the exact kind of reasonable, informed person i like to have science-based discussions with. your posts are reasonable, supported by consensus scientific opinion, open to debate, tolerant of dissent, and you really seem to know your elbow from your butthole. these are all valid qualities in a forum moderator.

all the 'hate' you are talking about, i first saw in your posts, BTW. when will you moderate your own views and posts? when will you declare your interests more openly, so we can all judge whether to accept your POV or not (and it is only a POV, not the "truth")?


and you probably ride a Hummer. what a ferkin joke.

felt1

Truthfully, because some people are holier than thou. Some people think they are better than you because they don't eat meat. These are the same people who will not neuter their pets and at the same time slaughter thousands of cows, chickens, lambs, and fish in the same fashion as us to feed their sacred beasts. Hypocrisy knows no bounds.