Random Thought Thread, aka The RTT (**possible spoilers**)
**** that
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times
in
30 Posts
yes. and depends.
Senior Member
For example I don't train for sprinting specifically, not any more. I do JRA training rides, steady pace, probably the worst thing you can do for working on a jump. I specifically avoid any lifting with my legs due to fragile knees. My peak power is usually 1200w for a given race or ride and I've hit 1400-1550w in training. On the other hand I pretty much cannot go harder than 200w for an hour, with a calculated 210-220w FTP, even the year I upgraded to Cat 2. Most of my hard rides average in the 160-180w range.
A local Cat 1 who got 3rd at the Elite RR one year (he bridged a minute gap to the break, leaving the field at 8 miles to go, bridged at 3 miles to go, the strongest pro in the break told him to pull so he pulled the remaining 3 miles, led out the sprint, and got 3rd out of 5; all this from Brice Jone's now-gone diary on cyclingnews), he claims he can't break 1200w ever in a sprint. He can average, on non-aero wheels, 28mph for 90 min though, soloing away from riders like Jeff Rutter, Graeme Miller, and a slew of local pros and Cat 1s, leaving them 5 laps into a 50 lap race. He can pull for about 7-8 minutes and literally ride me off his wheel (and he's done it a number of times). When he was trying to help me use my power meter more effectively he sent me graphs of his workouts as sample workouts - 5x5 min intervals, averaging 500w or 550w for each 5 min interval. He's also a very outspoken anti-doping person, and based on various things I'm pretty sure he races (and raced) clean. His grandfather was a pro track rider back in the day, his dad "just" a Cat 1.
In terms of training, okay, fine, I'm at 50% of mileage/hours from my Cat 2 upgrade year (2010). The local Cat 1 is probably literally 100 lbs heavier than he was when he got 3rd at Elites 10+ years ago. I can still sprint. He can still TT. We just can't do it as well, but the basic engine is there for each of us.
I'll never be a 350w FTP racer, but I'll accidentally hit 1000-1200w in training rides regularly. He'll never be a 1600w sprinter but he'll (probably) accidentally ride others off his wheel on a regular basis.
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
In the time I've had a power meter I've broken 1200 watts a number of times I can count on one hand. My highest numbers have come in races, not training. Really a function of lead out, I think, rather than will or effort...though I wouldn't discount it.
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,570
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 679 Times
in
430 Posts
My father once asked me what I thought it would take for me to make it to a Cat 1. My response: Different parents.
I worked my butt off for five years (I literally worked it off and dropped three inches off my waste during that time) to make it to a cat 3, and prior to messing up my knee, I had determined that I thought I could make it to a cat 2 through just pure dedication and effort. But I also knew that I would be nothing more than pack fodder as a 2.
I worked my butt off for five years (I literally worked it off and dropped three inches off my waste during that time) to make it to a cat 3, and prior to messing up my knee, I had determined that I thought I could make it to a cat 2 through just pure dedication and effort. But I also knew that I would be nothing more than pack fodder as a 2.
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
i am running 23s. i'll check the hub adjustment but moving it with my hand I don't notice any obvious hub play. i don't notice the wheel rubbing the brakes but it could be I guess? I think I would feel that though. I do tend to run my brakes pretty open compared to other people. In all honesty though, considering I've never touched the hub adjustment on this wheel that's probably it. friggin mavic and their stupid proprietary tool that I didn't keep.
i'm like 135lbs, I'm kind of surprised that I'm flexing anything that much.
and I'm still buying nicer wheels for next season #wheellust
i'm like 135lbs, I'm kind of surprised that I'm flexing anything that much.
and I'm still buying nicer wheels for next season #wheellust
I wonder if you've got a perfect storm of a slightly out of dish/center wheel, stiff rim with flexy spoke build, and frame with tighter chainstays than average.
Senior Member
3 or 4 year old ksyrium elite. i tried tightening the bearings but I don't have the right tool. whatever only using these wheels for one more race.
These Guys Eat Oreos
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My father once asked me what I thought it would take for me to make it to a Cat 1. My response: Different parents.
I worked my butt off for five years (I literally worked it off and dropped three inches off my waste during that time) to make it to a cat 3, and prior to messing up my knee, I had determined that I thought I could make it to a cat 2 through just pure dedication and effort. But I also knew that I would be nothing more than pack fodder as a 2.
I worked my butt off for five years (I literally worked it off and dropped three inches off my waste during that time) to make it to a cat 3, and prior to messing up my knee, I had determined that I thought I could make it to a cat 2 through just pure dedication and effort. But I also knew that I would be nothing more than pack fodder as a 2.
Ninny
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,088
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
I guess now I should shoot for 1000 in a month, which should be easy to do with just normal riding - just have to take the longer way home on a couple of commutes.
No matches
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,647
Bikes: two wheeled ones
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1398 Post(s)
Liked 444 Times
in
250 Posts
I had tire rubbing problems on my Noah. I could flex the wheel with my hand enough to hit the seatstay on one side, but not the other. I dished it a couple mm the other way, and it no longer flexes enough to hit the stays.
I'd check that it's dished absolutely perfectly between the stays, is absolutely true, and that's about all you can do, short of getting a stiffer wheel. Mine was a 32 spoke OP/PT, so it shouldn't be that flexy, but it was.
If it's hitting on both sides, I dunno what to tell you. Is it a super tight clearance aero bike?
I'd check that it's dished absolutely perfectly between the stays, is absolutely true, and that's about all you can do, short of getting a stiffer wheel. Mine was a 32 spoke OP/PT, so it shouldn't be that flexy, but it was.
If it's hitting on both sides, I dunno what to tell you. Is it a super tight clearance aero bike?
soon to be gsteinc...
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nayr497's BFF
Posts: 8,564
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Deep tissue massage yesterday from a very accomplished sport therapist...
Holy **** am I sore as ****...
Holy **** am I sore as ****...
Making a kilometer blurry
Seems like pretty much anyone whose beat up on Cat 4s could pull that off with the Cat 3s to get to Cat 2. We'll all be somewhere along the line between total commitment and finding a couple extra hours per week and maybe dropping a few pounds.
I was a middling Cat 3 for 14 years (some of which I took off of racing), never saw a podium in that time. Then I got a power meter and changed up my training based on what I learned about myself. Started winning. Then I saw a plateau looming, decided to lose 12 lbs in 5 weeks, bumped training from ~6 hours/week to ~8 hours/week, power went up, and I was a destroyer. Dropped my bars 2cm, and stretched to accommodate. 10.1 W/kg 1' power, 4.8 W/kg FTP, and bingo. Cat 2 at 39 yo.
Then I had to reprioritize, went back down to 6 hrs/wk, and downgraded.
Senior Member
Nowadays a rider can upgrade based on sniping for points, i.e. doing races that suit them. It's much more objective now than it used to be.
In the old days you had to place in road races and crits. The rep would hold you back if you weren't doing road races. A 2 was a real 2 - they were all strong, they could all climb (relatively speaking) because they got top 6 in road races, they were strong or smart enough to place top 6 in Cat 3 crits. I never qualified to upgrade to a 2 in those years. Maybe part of it is that all the sprinters who couldn't climb wouldn't be able to upgrade so the 3s were pretty tough, and since everyone started as a 4 back then... well the races were hard.
I only qualified to upgrade to a Cat 2 in 2010. It was a long time coming (end of my 28th season racing) and I thought we'd have a kid by next spring so I upgraded ASAP so as not to lose the opportunity. Of course the kid didn't show up until 2012 so 2011 was kind of a non-year for me.
In the old days you had to place in road races and crits. The rep would hold you back if you weren't doing road races. A 2 was a real 2 - they were all strong, they could all climb (relatively speaking) because they got top 6 in road races, they were strong or smart enough to place top 6 in Cat 3 crits. I never qualified to upgrade to a 2 in those years. Maybe part of it is that all the sprinters who couldn't climb wouldn't be able to upgrade so the 3s were pretty tough, and since everyone started as a 4 back then... well the races were hard.
I only qualified to upgrade to a Cat 2 in 2010. It was a long time coming (end of my 28th season racing) and I thought we'd have a kid by next spring so I upgraded ASAP so as not to lose the opportunity. Of course the kid didn't show up until 2012 so 2011 was kind of a non-year for me.
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,303
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times
in
372 Posts
Having become a 3 at age 52, I think my shot of becoming a 2 is rather limited, however, I have to admit, I could do better on the dedication part, particularly off the bike.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,449
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 693 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
further, since points now never expire, one who is motivated could collect a point here and there and cobble together and upgrade to 2 if they are so inclined. i think WR's method could do it, but one could simply enter as many (local) races as they can and just simply keep trying to get into moves, stack the odds by playing the game as much as possible. if you turn up often enough AND take some real longshot chances, eventually some work out.
now, making all the points in 12 months may be beyond the reach of 100% of riders.
a part of me is sad about the points expiration rule, as i think it raises the "in my day, and upgrade meant something" point (which i think is at least partially right) and might call into question the worthiness of some upgrades.
now, making all the points in 12 months may be beyond the reach of 100% of riders.
a part of me is sad about the points expiration rule, as i think it raises the "in my day, and upgrade meant something" point (which i think is at least partially right) and might call into question the worthiness of some upgrades.
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
I don't know anything about strava, but my best time on my recent trip was 15:38
https://www.strava.com/segments/cadil...www.google.com
https://www.strava.com/segments/cadil...www.google.com
Ninny
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Making a kilometer blurry
You're correct on the natural extrapolation, but I was one of these riders who seemed to be on the wrong side of an impossible wall, for a very very long time.
soon to be gsteinc...
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nayr497's BFF
Posts: 8,564
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
1. Training
2. Diet and weight management
3. Learning - i.e how to race
4. Setting reasonable goals
5. Sacrifice
Then there are others who would not have to put the same focus to get there. I am one of those. In a conversation with a friend of mine last week racing came up. If I actually trained with any focus when I was riding the sky would be the limit but I may be one that is somewhat different (based on basic physiology, athletic background, mental fortitude, etc.) and rose in the sport very quickly from a young age, quit riding, came back, etc. I am fortunate to have become an athlete at a very young age (5) and remained athletic through my entire life and that has allowed me to come in and out of sports with a much shorter adaptation period.
Other needs to work more for the same result.
soon to be gsteinc...
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nayr497's BFF
Posts: 8,564
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
These Guys Eat Oreos
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think anyone who really earned a Cat 3 upgrade can get to Cat 2. Theoretically anyway, if not practically. Take those folks you know who are treading water in their current category. Then pay them twice their current salary to get to Cat 2. Hire a full-time coach for them, a nutritionist, and start tracking diet, hydration and sleep, then make training adjustments with no compromises regarding competing interests. You can build someone who's strong enough to dispense with the rest of the Cat 3 field physically, then work on tactics and strategy. Identify the best races in the country for their style and power profile, fly to those courses to practice the week before races.
Seems like pretty much anyone whose beat up on Cat 4s could pull that off with the Cat 3s to get to Cat 2. We'll all be somewhere along the line between total commitment and finding a couple extra hours per week and maybe dropping a few pounds.
I was a middling Cat 3 for 14 years (some of which I took off of racing), never saw a podium in that time. Then I got a power meter and changed up my training based on what I learned about myself. Started winning. Then I saw a plateau looming, decided to lose 12 lbs in 5 weeks, bumped training from ~6 hours/week to ~8 hours/week, power went up, and I was a destroyer. Dropped my bars 2cm, and stretched to accommodate. 10.1 W/kg 1' power, 4.8 W/kg FTP, and bingo. Cat 2 at 39 yo.
Then I had to reprioritize, went back down to 6 hrs/wk, and downgraded.
Seems like pretty much anyone whose beat up on Cat 4s could pull that off with the Cat 3s to get to Cat 2. We'll all be somewhere along the line between total commitment and finding a couple extra hours per week and maybe dropping a few pounds.
I was a middling Cat 3 for 14 years (some of which I took off of racing), never saw a podium in that time. Then I got a power meter and changed up my training based on what I learned about myself. Started winning. Then I saw a plateau looming, decided to lose 12 lbs in 5 weeks, bumped training from ~6 hours/week to ~8 hours/week, power went up, and I was a destroyer. Dropped my bars 2cm, and stretched to accommodate. 10.1 W/kg 1' power, 4.8 W/kg FTP, and bingo. Cat 2 at 39 yo.
Then I had to reprioritize, went back down to 6 hrs/wk, and downgraded.
Not actually Tmonk
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,135
Bikes: road, track, mtb
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2639 Post(s)
Liked 3,153 Times
in
1,660 Posts
right right right... but it would take another level to become a competitive 2.
using myself as an example: I upgraded to cat3 three years ago by winning 3 races, getting 2 2nd's, a few other point-earning finishes. Most were in crits that featured shrot steep hills and/or were technical.
I know that I could get to cat2 with some focus and more frequent racing, not even spending more time on the bike. I do know that even with the focus and lifestyle sacrifices, that I will never be competitive at the 1/2 level with my limited time and talent.
For me it's about fun, casual competition at this point, and being part of a community that I enjoy.
using myself as an example: I upgraded to cat3 three years ago by winning 3 races, getting 2 2nd's, a few other point-earning finishes. Most were in crits that featured shrot steep hills and/or were technical.
I know that I could get to cat2 with some focus and more frequent racing, not even spending more time on the bike. I do know that even with the focus and lifestyle sacrifices, that I will never be competitive at the 1/2 level with my limited time and talent.
For me it's about fun, casual competition at this point, and being part of a community that I enjoy.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
Last edited by TMonk; 09-09-13 at 09:34 AM. Reason: typo
These Guys Eat Oreos
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
right right right... but it would take another level to become a competitive 2.
using myself as an example: I upgraded to cat3 three years ago by winning 3 races, getting 2 2nd's, a few other point-earning finishes. Most were in crits that featured shot steep hills and/or were technical.
I know that I could get to cat2 with some focus and more frequent racing, not even spending more time on the bike. I do know that even with the focus and lifestyle sacrifices, that I will never be competitive at the 1/2 level with my limited time and talent.
For me it's about fun, casual competition at this point, and being part of a community that I enjoy.
using myself as an example: I upgraded to cat3 three years ago by winning 3 races, getting 2 2nd's, a few other point-earning finishes. Most were in crits that featured shot steep hills and/or were technical.
I know that I could get to cat2 with some focus and more frequent racing, not even spending more time on the bike. I do know that even with the focus and lifestyle sacrifices, that I will never be competitive at the 1/2 level with my limited time and talent.
For me it's about fun, casual competition at this point, and being part of a community that I enjoy.