Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-28-02, 11:30 AM   #1
JonR
Carfree since '82. Grrr!
Thread Starter
 
JonR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Move 'em to the 'burgs (GM, Ford applaud)

Here's a link, apt to expire soon, to a Kansas City Star story on reform in "public" housing. The idea is, since housing projects have invariably turned into breeding grounds for crime, to separate the low-income people from one another by housing them discretely (maybe I should say discreetly!) in the suburbs.

Click here and hope for the best

Here is the text of an email I fired off to the writer of the article:

Dear Mr. Grice:

In my opinion, to move anybody to the suburbs is an act of betrayal to
urban living, and an insult to civilized values.

It's also an admission of defeat: saying that people cannot, in effect,
live harmoniously together.

But I suppose the automobile makers and the oil industry will be wildly
applauding, even as the environment and civilization itself suffer.

Thanks for the article--even though it made me mad!

Sincerely,
Jon Rutherford
Kansas City, Missouri
(URBAN resident since 1964)
JonR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-02, 11:44 AM   #2
roadbuzz
Just ride.
 
roadbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: C-ville, Va
Bikes:
Posts: 3,245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It seems like large urban centers tend to just grow business and population in the periphery, abandoning the "older stuff" as it goes. It surprises me that more developers don't move back in to the centers, and start over, so to speak, allowing the residents reduced commute difficulties, etc.
roadbuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-02, 12:35 PM   #3
JonR
Carfree since '82. Grrr!
Thread Starter
 
JonR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by roadbuzz
It seems like large urban centers tend to just grow business and population in the periphery, abandoning the "older stuff" as it goes. It surprises me that more developers don't move back in to the centers, and start over, so to speak, allowing the residents reduced commute difficulties, etc.
I truly believe the oil companies and their buddies the automakers have so brainwashed the populace of the earth, that everybody believes it's a DUTY to drive a lot of unnecessary miles! Of course the isolation provided by a steel cage also is appreciated by those who want to minimize their contact with the rest of suffering humanity.... Grrr!
JonR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-02, 12:36 PM   #4
JonR
Carfree since '82. Grrr!
Thread Starter
 
JonR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I meant to say "'burbs" in the title of this here thread. Of course, there are various burgs in the 'burbs so I guess it all comes out the same.
JonR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-02, 05:11 PM   #5
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Then again, be careful what you wish for.

Here in Brisbane, the population went through a stage of abandoning the inner city 'burbs in favour of the newer areas. Prices plummeted in the inner city, the buildings were old, the rent was cheap, facilites and shops were close at hand, and it thrived.

Nowadays, all the fatcats that moved out to the edge of the world have realised that an hour and a half stuck in traffic each way was too much of a price to pay, and there's a resurgence of interest in 'inner city living', which the real estate agents (spawn of satan that they are) have now decided is a good thing. Thus prices are going up, those nice old buildings are being 'redeveloped', the fatcats are moving back in and bringing their cars with them.

The trouble here is that the fatcats can't just move back into these places and accept them as they are: accept the very things that made them so charming and desireable in the first place - the diverse population, the rambling old buildings, the essentially carfree nature of the place. They are used to a certain idea of comfort, and demand that anything that doesn't comply with that idea be made to do so. So the deros and hippies are being squeezed out, the nice old buildings are being torn down to build apartment complexes with underground parking, the shops are turning from selling useful things like food and clothing to selling the yuppies idea of 'bohemia', which for some reason involves an inordinate amount of purple, and the inner city is in grave danger of becoming the sterile wasteland that the outer 'burbs already are.

Not without a fight though. Residents of the West End are putting up a valiant effort, but I fear it is a losing battle when the only people that might be able to do something ie. the Council, are the fattest of cats themselves. Fortitude Valley and New Farm are already a shadow of what they were even five years ago when I moved to Brisbane.

Of course this could be a good thing. Once it loses it's charm, the fatcats will move out again, leaving it once again to the folk that can create a real culture, and the cycle repeats.

Speaking of the Valley, here's a typical story: An apartment building was recently built in the shell of some old building right next to the Brunswick St. Mall right in the heart of the Valley. This was in fact it's major selling point, and people bought it up in droves trying to buy themselves a little of the cultural experience that is living in the Valley. The thing is it is also directly across the road from the Empire Pub, a popular spot for live music. Another thing is that the developers, being the money grubbing spawn of satan that they are, didn't include adequate soundproofing in the building. End result: New residents complain about the noise and start a campaign to stop the pub playing live music on weekends. ******* morons.
Allister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-02, 05:35 PM   #6
Allister
Devilmaycare Cycling Fool
 
Allister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wynnum, Australia
Bikes: 1998 Cannondale F700
Posts: 3,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just read the article. This quote is particularly precious: "They are now able to live in suburban communities next to working class families like themselves, said Flowers, executive director of the public housing residents council." What arrogance. 'Like themselves' indeed. Shades of the unsavoury racist past methinks. 'Let them mix with people like themselves, we certainly don't want them around us.'

Further to my previous (possibly OT now I've read the article) post: Another side effect of this is that the less affluent have to find more affordable digs, which means they are pushed into cheaper neighborhoods, which these days are miles from anything. No shops, no PT, no nothing that you can't get to without a car, and these are the people that can least afford the luxury of a car. Is sound social planning, or a side effect of insatiable greed?

Gods save us from ignorant ****** trying to 'help the poor'. All indications in this article lead me to believe that they are more interested in helping themselves. Maybe these so called 'breeding grounds for crime' now have the potential to become prime real estate with the fatcat's new interest in moving closer to the city. Call me overly cynical, but only if you can prove me wrong.
Allister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-02, 05:54 PM   #7
JonR
Carfree since '82. Grrr!
Thread Starter
 
JonR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Allister, you are exactly right on all counts.

What you described happening in Brisbane has already happened in San Francisco, with the result that people of moderate and even fairly ample means are at a loss for places to live. The artists and non-affluent, humane, humanist types that used to live there have been dispossessed. Meanwhile there is a desperate problem of homelessness, with people sleeping on sidewalks...could there be a connection? Oh, surely not!

And on a smaller but just as mean-spirited scale it's happening in Kansas City. In the urban core, long-disused industrial buildings are converted into lofts that only the wealthy can afford, and you may be sure they are not about to abandon their cars--especially when the nearest grocery is six miles away.

And the classist, racist angle is only too apparent to anybody with eyes to see. But that apparently doesn't include politicians, who have only pockets to fill.
JonR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-02, 06:54 PM   #8
Pete Clark
It's in my blood
 
Pete Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Bikes:
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In Atlanta, many people are moving back into the city. I'm sure it has it's negative sides, but before the yuppies came, it was kind of run-down.

As far as moving public housing to the 'burbs is concerned, it's only logical that the rich would get their first choice, the welfare folk all the leftovers.

But I hope it will backfire. The emperor will get his new clothes, and maybe the publicans can get a great bargain at Goodwill.

Pete Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-02, 07:22 PM   #9
Dutchy
We drive on the left.
 
Dutchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 1,096
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Speaking of the Valley, here's a typical story: An apartment building was recently built in the shell of some old building right next to the Brunswick St. Mall right in the heart of the Valley. This was in fact it's major selling point, and people bought it up in droves trying to buy themselves a little of the cultural experience that is living in the Valley. The thing is it is also directly across the road from the Empire Pub, a popular spot for live music. Another thing is that the developers, being the money grubbing spawn of satan that they are, didn't include adequate soundproofing in the building. End result: New residents complain about the noise and start a campaign to stop the pub playing live music on weekends. ******* morons
Exactly the same thing is happening here. The only difference is that two of the developments are backing on to Pubs.
The Austral Hotel and the Governor Hindmarsh, probably the best live band pubs in town, have both been
trying to fight these developments. Neither pub won. Another victory for the Yuppies and their 4wd, mobile phone using, cigarette smoking, country road wearing , friends.

CHEERS.

Mark
Dutchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:06 PM.