Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Tandem Cycling
Reload this Page >

Di2 Display

Search
Notices
Tandem Cycling A bicycle built for two. Want to find out more about this wonderful world of tandems? Check out this forum to talk with other tandem enthusiasts. Captains and stokers welcome!

Di2 Display

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-07-16, 11:01 AM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
waynesulak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 1,971

Bikes: Custom 650B tandem by Bob Brown, 650B tandem converted from Santana Arriva, Santana Noventa, Boulder Bicycle 700C, Gunnar Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by chojn1
How important is a GPS for your drives?
Some people prefer maps and atlases, we would not drive anywhere new without our GPS.
The same applies to our bike. They are so much better than the map and cue sheets.
All the rallies we have been to lately have TCX files that you can download to your GPS for turn by turn direction.
We tried the handlebar mounted phone route. But the Garmin is so much more convenient, has longer battery life, and is much easier to read outdoor than the phone. I like the Edge 1000. Initially I thought it was a little pricey, but the big screen is great for my aging eyes and I am enjoying the new functionality that Garmin has continually added.

As my wife keeps reminding me, I am a little too OCD about my bikes. I like the cockpit clean and uncluttered. I worked hard to to hide all the wires and junction boxes, I could not justify adding an XTR display. Besides the D-Fly unit is less expensive, is hidden away from the elements and have less chance of failure. And, the E1000 screen has plenty of real estate for the gear indicator, even on multiple screens if needed.



If that was not geeky enough, check out my new toy:



It is a radar sensor that wirelessly connect to my Garmin display. It warns me of the number of cars behind me and how fast they are approaching before I can even hear their engine. They have the small LEDs that brighten and blink faster as the car approaches, but I found those to be insufficiently bright to do any good. So I added my own random blinkers.
It is interesting to see what people do with their bike setup because their are so many options and the rider's personality shows. I find my strong geek tendencies to want me to add electronics while my less is more side is thinking every time I own a gadget that it also owns part of me, time to watch over it, fix it, recharge its batteries etc.

I like see my cadence, heart rate, grade and blue tooth communication with the stoker. I wish I had a power meter too. Then again sometimes I leave all that at home and just ride the bike unplugged. No heart rate strap, speed and cadence readouts our purely analog. There is a freedom to it that I enjoy. The next ride I put it all back on again to see the metrics. It is all good.
The bike is a simple machine?
Batteries on Bike uggg:

2 blue tooth headsets
2 computers (Polar and ANT)
2 speed sensors
2 cadence senors
1 front light (4 AA)
1 rear light (4 AA)
1 phone

11 current subtotal

4 power meter pedals to be added
1 Di2 to be added

16 ?
waynesulak is offline  
Old 04-07-16, 11:30 AM
  #27  
don't try this at home.
 
rm -rf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,940
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 352 Posts
Originally Posted by oldacura
I guess that I'm more old-school than others when it comes to electronics. We almost always ride in familiar territory so an map function is unnecessary. Stuff like power output etc. will only confirm that I am getting older & slower.

We have really only ridden around the block with the new bike & Di2. I hope that I don't regret this decision. One think that I like about bikes is that they are one of the last truly mechanical toys available. Now I have allowed electronics to creep into this and it is not just a gadget - it is integral to the functioning of the bike.

I just rode my older single bike yesterday. It is 2 x 10 Durace. I can run small front ring with all but the smallest rear cog with no noise. Now it appears that on the tandem I can't use any of the 3 smallest rear cogs with the small front ring. Is this because of Di2 or something else? If this is a compromise of Di2 why is this not made clear by Shimano and all of the early adopters?
Did you try my test from a previous post? If the cage isn't touching the chain, then it's not a Di2 problem.

(I never noticed a noise from small-small cross chaining on my old Campagnolo 10 speed with 50/34. But the lift pins on the FSA chainring didn't stick out as far, either.)

To test: Off the bike, shift to the small-small combination. Slide a dollar bill in between the front derailleur cage and the chain to verify it's not touching. I can see a gap of maybe 1mm, or about the thickness of the chain plate.

~~~~
If the cage isn't rubbing, I'd contact Calfee. They must have taken chain lines, bottom bracket widths, and other relevant design parameters into account when designing the bikes.

Last edited by rm -rf; 04-07-16 at 11:43 AM.
rm -rf is offline  
Old 04-07-16, 12:24 PM
  #28  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
oldacura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: 1998 Co-Motion Co-Pilot, 2015 Calfee Tetra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by rm -rf
Did you try my test from a previous post? If the cage isn't touching the chain, then it's not a Di2 problem.

(I never noticed a noise from small-small cross chaining on my old Campagnolo 10 speed with 50/34. But the lift pins on the FSA chainring didn't stick out as far, either.)

To test: Off the bike, shift to the small-small combination. Slide a dollar bill in between the front derailleur cage and the chain to verify it's not touching. I can see a gap of maybe 1mm, or about the thickness of the chain plate.

~~~~
If the cage isn't rubbing, I'd contact Calfee. They must have taken chain lines, bottom bracket widths, and other relevant design parameters into account when designing the bikes.
I did not yet try the test. I will this weekend. I appreciate the advice.
oldacura is offline  
Old 04-07-16, 01:14 PM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Posts: 620

Bikes: 2015 Calfee Tetra tandem,2016 Calfee Tetra Adventure Tandem, Ventana ECDM 26 mtn tandem, Ventana ECDM 29r full suspension Mtn tandem ,Ventana Fat tire tandem, Calfee Dragon Fly, Santa Cruz Carbon 5010, 907 Whiteout fat tire

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
I am just packing up our bike for a riding trip in Hawaii and the bike was in the stand so I checked the issues you where having. I only get noise in the small ring and 11 tooth cog. It is very close in the 12 tooth. One thing that is probably different is that we run 135mm spacing (142x12mm thru axle). It is not rubbing on the cage but drags on the big chainring ramps. We have Lightning cranks and have a small amount of adjustment in chain line so when I built it up I may have moved it over a mm . When we moved from 145 to 135 I had to take out the 6mm spacer in the crank axle connection to achieve a good chain line. I have no interference in the large chainring. We have 50/34 Praxis chainrings for reference purposes. I also just replaced the jag wire hydraulic hose with Goodridge stainless braided hose and it is quite an improvement in brake feel and less subject to kinking during packing for travel. It just barely fits in the Calfee hose holders in the frame. Also don't forget when riding with the XTR display there is a button the bottom that is easy to touch at any time you want to see what gear you are in if the display went to sleep.
akexpress is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 12:53 AM
  #30  
Likes to Ride Far
 
Chris_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,345

Bikes: road+, gravel, commuter/tourer, tandem, e-cargo, folder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
When cross-chaining, is the chain rubbing on the outer ring or on the derailleur cage? If it is the outer ring then it's a chainline issue that is hard to do anything about. It it's the derailleur cage, then a bit of adjustment should fix the problem.
Chris_W is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 04:18 AM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,445
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4234 Post(s)
Liked 2,949 Times in 1,808 Posts
Originally Posted by jnjtandem
Congrats on your new Calfee!!! We also just ordered a Di2 Tetra ourselves and asked for the D-Fly addon ($60 or so) for that very reason. The D-Fly easily wires in and attaches to your rear chainstay. FYI, it also transmits DI2 battery level via ANT+ which can be received by Garmin Edge 810 and 1000 models. From what I've read and youtubed, the setup just takes a few minutes. I'd think this is a huge plus for tandemers... somewhat similar to the extinct Shimano Flight-Decks.
Did they ever update the firmware on the 1000 so you can have multiple bike profiles?

Edit: Sorry, I read on later and see OP doesn't want a garmin.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?), 1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"





himespau is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 05:47 AM
  #32  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau
Did they ever update the firmware on the 1000 so you can have multiple bike profiles?

Edit: Sorry, I read on later and see OP doesn't want a garmin.
I've only had the Edge 1000 for a week now, and have been using an 800 for a year now. Both of those models support multiple bike profiles.

I've discovered the 1000 has a cool new feature called "Activity Profiles". Out of the box it comes with a "Race" mode and a "Training" mode. Each activity profile can have its own color scheme, data screens, navigation settings, alerts, etc.
jnjtandem is offline  
Old 04-10-16, 12:21 PM
  #33  
Senior Member
 
chojn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 298

Bikes: Eriksen Tandem, DIY CF Tandem, Aluminum Tandem, Lightspeed, Cervelo, Specialized, Trek

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 4 Posts
There is now a free app on Connect IQ site that will display your gears based on the calculation of your wheel size, speed, and cadence. No D-Fly or XTR display needed. I haven't tried it and can't tell you how well it works though.
chojn1 is offline  
Old 04-10-16, 04:17 PM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,853
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 259 Times in 153 Posts
Originally Posted by jnjtandem
I've only had the Edge 1000 for a week now, and have been using an 800 for a year now. Both of those models support multiple bike profiles.

I've discovered the 1000 has a cool new feature called "Activity Profiles". Out of the box it comes with a "Race" mode and a "Training" mode. Each activity profile can have its own color scheme, data screens, navigation settings, alerts, etc.
Garmin 810 has the same race and training feature.
Dean V is offline  
Old 04-10-16, 04:53 PM
  #35  
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,445
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4234 Post(s)
Liked 2,949 Times in 1,808 Posts
Oh, the 1000 has multiple bike profiles? For a while they'd gotten rid of that in the 820 and 1000. Glad to see it came back.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?), 1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"





himespau is offline  
Old 04-10-16, 06:18 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,853
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1067 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 259 Times in 153 Posts
Even the old 500 had multiple bike profiles. Just not as many as the newer flasher models.
Dean V is offline  
Old 04-10-16, 08:05 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,445
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4234 Post(s)
Liked 2,949 Times in 1,808 Posts
Yeah, I know the 500 and 800 did, that was why a lot of people were upset when it was missing in the first release of the 820 and 1000. Or at least you no longer were able to keep separate per bike odometers if you wanted to use that to track maintenance and chain/tire life.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?), 1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"





himespau is offline  
Old 04-11-16, 06:53 AM
  #38  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
oldacura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: 1998 Co-Motion Co-Pilot, 2015 Calfee Tetra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
I installed the XTR display on the bike this weekend.

I looked at the situation with the front derailleur cage. It does appear that the guide is rubbing on the chain with small front x any of the three smallest rear cogs. I tried to adjust this out without success.

I took it to my LBS (not the builder of the bike). They are not really familiar with Di2 on a tandem. They noticed that the rear hub is set up for a disc (but no disc installed). They wondered if this might be the cause of the problem. They thought that a disc hub might shift the cassette further outboard.

Is this true? I spec'd the bike to be "disc ready" but went with rim brakes. If having a disc hub in the rear compromises the chainline & makes cross-chaining worse, I want to get rid of the disc hub.

I would take the bike back to the builder but they are on the other side of the country so this is not practical.

Experts please?
oldacura is offline  
Old 04-11-16, 11:00 AM
  #39  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 197

Bikes: Norco Bigfoot, Miyata 110, Giant TCR Advanced 0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
disc/no disc doesn't change anything on the drive side.

your bike shop is wrong.
shlammed is offline  
Old 04-11-16, 12:09 PM
  #40  
Likes to Ride Far
 
Chris_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,345

Bikes: road+, gravel, commuter/tourer, tandem, e-cargo, folder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
What is the spacing of the rear hub? Tandems are often 145mm (regardless of whether they are disc compatible or not), which is far wider than single bikes to give the rear wheel extra strength. The rear hub spacing might also be 135 or 140mm. On a typical road bike, it's 130mm and a MTB with a quick release it's 135mm.

Having determined the rear hub spacing, you need to determine whether the chainline of the crank and chainrings is matched to the rear hub spacing. With a 145mm rear hub, you would ideally need a 53 mm chainline (or at least this is what tandem-specific cranks are normally designed to have); typical road bike double cranks for single bikes have a 43.5mm chainline and road triples are 45mm; MTB triples are about 50mm. With some cranks, you can adjust the chainline slightly, but with many modern cranks with integrated axles, you can't change it.

Overall, I wouldn't be surprised that your chainline wasn't ideal, so access to all gears may never be possible. Any decent mechanic should know how to measure the hub dimensions and chainring positions to determine what kind of optimal performance is possible, regardless of whether the mechanic has ever touched a tandem before or not. If the mechanic is not capable of doing this, find a different shop.
Chris_W is offline  
Old 04-11-16, 12:22 PM
  #41  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
oldacura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: 1998 Co-Motion Co-Pilot, 2015 Calfee Tetra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanks Chris for the info. I don't have the bike here with me so I can't measure the rear hub spacing. I had a tandem "expert" shop build the bike so I wouldn't have to figure this out by myself.

So, if the crank is intended for a single and if the rear hub is 140mm or 145mm, the cassette could be 5mm further outboard than the chainrings (right?).

If this is the case what is the right way to fix this? Tandem specific cranks?

Can you educate me on how chainline is measured?

Thanks again.
oldacura is offline  
Old 04-11-16, 12:47 PM
  #42  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
oldacura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: 1998 Co-Motion Co-Pilot, 2015 Calfee Tetra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
So I searched for "how to measure chainline" & found the article by Sheldon Brown.

For a 2 x 11 geartrain, it sounds like measuring the chainline in front is pretty straightforward: from the imaginary centerplane of the bike to the half-way plane between the 2 front rings.

For the rear, it sounds like it may take some measurements, divide by 2 and some addition/subtraction. I'm assuming that the front chainline distance should be nearly the same as cog #6 in the rear (right)?

I should be able to look into this some more later today.
oldacura is offline  
Old 04-11-16, 01:03 PM
  #43  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Posts: 620

Bikes: 2015 Calfee Tetra tandem,2016 Calfee Tetra Adventure Tandem, Ventana ECDM 26 mtn tandem, Ventana ECDM 29r full suspension Mtn tandem ,Ventana Fat tire tandem, Calfee Dragon Fly, Santa Cruz Carbon 5010, 907 Whiteout fat tire

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
My guess is you have "typical tandem" rear hub spacing of 145mm. If that is the case you are probably going to have some chain issues in the small chain ring and smaller cogs. Since the local shop thought that the cassette can be further outboard with a disc hub you need to find a better shop that actually has a clue ( sorry to be so blunt). Di2 on a tandem is exactly the same as a single except for longer wires and the possibility of a wider rear hub. I had similar issues on the small cogs on my previous Calfee with 145 rear hub. Since changing to 135 on our new frame it is only a problem on the smallest (11). There is really no need to ride the smallest chairing and 2-3 smallest cogs combinations. About the only time I do that is when I have a brain fart and forget I am in the small chain ring and try to get moving fast with a group or something. If you can give us what you are using for cranks someone on here will have info on whether you can improve the chainlink. BTW we had 1000's of happy Di2 miles on a 145 mm rear hub and frame so you will have a great bike. Also I would rather be able to totally cross chain in the big ring if there is a compromise to be made.

Last edited by akexpress; 04-11-16 at 01:22 PM.
akexpress is offline  
Old 04-11-16, 01:17 PM
  #44  
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,445
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4234 Post(s)
Liked 2,949 Times in 1,808 Posts
Is there a wider BB he can get to make the chainline better? I don't know, I'm still stuck in the world of square taper.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?), 1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"





himespau is offline  
Old 04-12-16, 06:55 AM
  #45  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
oldacura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: 1998 Co-Motion Co-Pilot, 2015 Calfee Tetra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by akexpress
My guess is you have "typical tandem" rear hub spacing of 145mm. If that is the case you are probably going to have some chain issues in the small chain ring and smaller cogs. Since the local shop thought that the cassette can be further outboard with a disc hub you need to find a better shop that actually has a clue ( sorry to be so blunt). Di2 on a tandem is exactly the same as a single except for longer wires and the possibility of a wider rear hub. I had similar issues on the small cogs on my previous Calfee with 145 rear hub. Since changing to 135 on our new frame it is only a problem on the smallest (11). There is really no need to ride the smallest chairing and 2-3 smallest cogs combinations. About the only time I do that is when I have a brain fart and forget I am in the small chain ring and try to get moving fast with a group or something. If you can give us what you are using for cranks someone on here will have info on whether you can improve the chainlink. BTW we had 1000's of happy Di2 miles on a 145 mm rear hub and frame so you will have a great bike. Also I would rather be able to totally cross chain in the big ring if there is a compromise to be made.

I picked up the bike yesterday PM from the shop. They said that they got the shifting working well on all except small/small. I can live with this (though I haven't ridden the bike since adjustment). I installed the Di2 XTR display & had to get a longer (400mm -vs- 350mm) Di2 cable since the display is offset to the right (the junction box was centered). Hopefully all is good now.
oldacura is offline  
Old 04-12-16, 09:39 AM
  #46  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Posts: 620

Bikes: 2015 Calfee Tetra tandem,2016 Calfee Tetra Adventure Tandem, Ventana ECDM 26 mtn tandem, Ventana ECDM 29r full suspension Mtn tandem ,Ventana Fat tire tandem, Calfee Dragon Fly, Santa Cruz Carbon 5010, 907 Whiteout fat tire

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Good news now just go out and ride your new awesome bike It would be nice for you to post a picture of your new Calfee.
akexpress is offline  
Old 04-13-16, 12:32 AM
  #47  
Likes to Ride Far
 
Chris_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,345

Bikes: road+, gravel, commuter/tourer, tandem, e-cargo, folder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
BTW, we also have a 145mm rear hub, single bike cranks, and Ultegra Di2 shifting. I know the limits of this setup, and within those limits everything works perfectly and we're very happy. Enjoy the bike!
Chris_W is offline  
Old 04-13-16, 02:09 PM
  #48  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
oldacura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: 1998 Co-Motion Co-Pilot, 2015 Calfee Tetra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Here is a photo of our new Calfee Tetra with zero miles:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_0911.jpg (92.8 KB, 28 views)
oldacura is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
horatio
Road Cycling
5
07-23-19 04:30 AM
part_robot
Road Cycling
5
02-15-15 11:58 AM
asu_gt
Tandem Cycling
2
03-15-13 11:49 AM
ecouch
Pacific Northwest
0
03-18-11 09:41 PM
MrMojoJoJo
Road Cycling
19
03-18-10 10:10 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.