fietser_ivana

Today I was doing back, shoulders, calves and abs. One of the abs exercises is on a leg press. As I had to wait so long for the leg press that I did other exercise first and used the leg press last.
As we had been discussing how to try out a 1RM before on a bodybuilders forum, I was tempted to try out how I'd fare with the regular leg press (for quads).

Well, it seems that I'll need to abandon the leg press soon and will have to start squatting.. I've decided to go for the front squat (no problems falling over backwards because of short tendons I hope!), probably with a very light weight to test the waters (have shoulder probs).
Why? Well, it seems that since I've been lifting weights fanatically only for 3-4 weeks in a row now and I'm nearly maxing out!

My 1RM was 250 kg! I was flabbergasted! Or isn't it much of a big deal? I have never seen anyone do 250 kg on a leg press before.. at least not in my gym!
How I did it.. I knew I could do 160 kg as that was the finishing set weight of last Monday (10x100,6x120,6x130,5x150,4x160.. I hadn't been in the gym for 3 weeks, but after all those puny but steepish Portugese hills my quads were well trained).
Anyway.. I started with 170 kg, then discovered it felt easy, and put on 190 kg but when I moved the plateau, I thought I'd be able to do 210 kg.. same for 210, same for 230 when I finally tried 250 kg and just managed to push the weight back and decided this had to be my first established 1RM weight! Yooohoo! I should be able to surpass this fairly easily with a bit of training, shouldn't I?

Was this a right way to find out what my 1RM could be? getting the 'feel' of lower weight but not tiring the muscle by not completing the movement?

SamDaBikinMan

Well since you are not a powerlifter or body builder I would say you did pretty well with 250. I know many people who do not come close to that that are avid cyclists.

I have never attempted a 1 rep max on leg presses as it is a movment I do after many sets of squats, hamstring curls and hack machine squats. My current high weight on leg press is 580lbs or about 265K for 12 repititions, my current squat maximum is 390 for 4 repititions. I have not attempted a single rep max in a long while. This year is the first in over 10 years I have gotten back on the weights with any seriousness. My personal best lifts when I was at my peak was a 560lb (about 254K) squat at a body weight of 178lbs (81K). At that time I actually did leg presses with over 800lbs (363K). I lived in the gym back in those days.

The world of powerlifting is much different from cycling. When I had that incredible leg power I could not spin high rpms so I was actually not as quick on my bike back in those days. My quads would become so pumped it was like having weights tied to my feet.

fietser_ivana

You don't need to be a powerlifter for a 1RM.

I was just curious because a lot of exercises I see on boards give recommendations for sets like 70% of 1RM, 80%, etc. etc. which gave me the impression, that determining your 1RM for individual exercises was quite important.
So, I asked them, how can you do a 1RM trial... I mean, you can't really try many weights as you'd be tired, wouldn't you?
The answers that came back weren't exactly very informative, and I thought to only start doing some 1RM efforts in January.
But I had become curious enough to not restrain myself for the leg press and just give it a try. Should I be impressed by this weight of 250kg? Unfortunately it means that I probably might max out some day (I will be doing sets of 20-6-6-6 in the next 10 weeks or so) as the upper limit is 270 kg.. oh, well not very likely I think!

The curious part is that I am known as a real slug on the bike.. I find it very hard to keep up a decent speed, esp. by myself... when I cycle for days on end by myself, speed goes down to a mere average of let's say 14 km/hr.
At home I'm always pressed for time.. when touring, I sometimes lose interest in getting to my destination quickly..
Yet, when I did fast weekend rides in the past and also was the slowest turtle of the bunch, I was and still am known for a relatively rapid spin (and low gears). Also, during spinning lessons I love to spin rapidly.. it gives me a buzz.
But only for a short time... give me time and either force and speed lags behind..

Perhaps it is nutrition.. I discovered to have been seriously malnourishing myself in the past by not paying attention to macro-nutrients (protein,fat, carbs). Now I'm on a very low-carb, high protein/fat diet I feel as I am living on speed (amphetamins, cocaine).. weird, very weird indeed.

SamDaBikinMan

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ighlight=squat

This is a post I submitted regarding leg workouts that I think may help you out.

The one rep max test will be a good way to establish a starting point. The program in the post is a mix between power and mass building rep range.

I also suggest that you chart a weekly progression rate so you can see your results as they come about. There is no doubt that the weights will increase your power on the bike. Mix low rep work with high rep work to get overall best results. I typically do one heavy workout every third leg day. Light days I will do 10 to 20 repitition sets and never lower than 8 rep sets on a light day.

fietser_ivana

I'm still confused.. you see, I have been working with sets of 12-15 in the past and felt that I could do another set immediately without pausing.
Now I'm trying to go to near-failure with 6 reps which is in the strength range, rather than endurance or mass growth, right?

There are 2 things that strike me..
You tell him to only work out every 3rd day.. I work out 4 days/week, but do a leg workout (quads, hams, gluteus) on Monday and plan to do aquajogging (running in water) in the evening.
Tuesday is for chest,triceps, biceps, wrist, calves and abs
Wed for spinning and I try to not obey the orders to use heavy gears but spin light instead!
Thurs for back, shoulders, abs
Friday is light cardio day: a light swim or a bike ride..was thinking of riding up and down a small local hill (there isn't much choice here in hills , it's only 30m)
Saturday is depletion day.. I'm on a ketogenic diet with carb loading on Saturday: start with spinning and then do 1 exercise of 12 reps for each muscle group with exception of hips, calves and abs for which full sets will be done.

What do you think?

Maelstrom 

Well there are many many different theories of workout. 1 guy says workout to negative failure once every 7 days. Another guy says do massive sets 5 days a week. And of course everything in between. Guess what. Everyone is right. You should be varrying up your routine to trick your muscles. Personally I used a three routing split

1 - power lifting routing. 5sets - 5 reps to possitive failure and only doing power exercises. This builds raw power (compound exercises only please). No limb or minor area workouts. In reality you should be hurting after this small and short routine. I would do this for 6 weeks as it stresses the body heavily. (Ironic thing is I hate squats and barely ever do them. Being 6'5 puts tonnes of strain on my lower back so I never enjoyed them). I used different exercises to represent different days (light, medium and heavy)

monday - Legs to failure, chest medium workout, back light workout
wednesday - legs light, chest heavy, back medium
Friday - legs medium, chest light, back heavy

2 - Bodybuilding routing - 1 bodypart 1 day a week 5 days. This worked best for ME in building muscle size and strenght. I would do this routine 8 weeks since it give bodypart lots of rest and isn't a whole lot of stress. I would perfom this group of exercises to possitive failure.

3 - cross training - whole body routine 3 or 4 days a week to physical exhuastion - no failure. I would try to do this 8 weeks but generally did it for 6 weeks because it is so damn boring and I barely see any results in muscle...fat loss yes but no muscle.

I would place 1 week off in between each. This uses three different threories of muscle growth very well...Another one I tried is similar to number one. 1 workout every 5 days. to absolute an utter failure. This one did hurt but put too much strain on my body. I didn't see much for results and just didn't enjoy the workout.

As for my 1rm...it is around 800 now...I used to do slightly over 1000pnds on a 45degree leg press but have lost some size due to cycling...

Cheers...just remember there is no one great routine and if anyone ever says so they don't understand human physiology...the body is far more complex than that. I also found 1rm to be a very important measuring stick. But I was also a power freak and the weight lifted meant as much to me as the workout itself...(graphs, charts that kind of thing). There 'used' to be a chart around that you could look up you workout by reps. For example if you benched 170 12 times to failure you could reference this and it would tell you your approx 1rm...I will have to see if I can find it.

Maelstrom 

In theory yes. But in reality everyone's muscle fibres are different and react differently...that is probably a safe bet but you would never know for sure without a muscle biopsy. (I also assume you mean near possitive failure instead of negative failure)

Wow I am impressed. After a leg workout I usually just feel like drinking water and passing out

I like that workout you are doing but again I would switch it to something different after around 8 weeks. Just to manipulate the body into doing what you want. I would only do one thing with your routinge personally (again this is because I know my own body this may not work for you). I would move my biceps to back day. This way your routine is more balanced. Some people do the opposite and would move triceps to back day (recovery reasons) but again that is personal. I never got a good pump working triceps without chest...

fietser_ivana

Wow.. Maelstrom.. sounds interesting. Complicated too..

So, considering that I've been on the Body-for-Life program for only 3 weeks (3 days WO, 3 days cardio , not 20 mins but 45 mins) with upper body on Mon-Fri-Wed and lower body on Wed-Mon-Fri and just switched to the one above, when should I switch to any one of the routines you mention..

I'm trying to shed about 8-10 kg of weight after having attained my normal fit but still obese summer weight of 72-73 kg.

In March the season will be in full swing and from then on I will need to recover from cycling in the weekends .. am planning to limit myself to 150K per ride, but for the 200-300-400-600 K BRMs and try to work up to 2 150K rides on both Sat & Sun ... starting from e.g. 75K on Sat and 0K on Sunday..
BTW, I will be in California & Oregon in February where I will combine training on the bike with working out..

This leaves only Dec & Jan.. not a lot of time to try out your routine-split!
I'd be very grateful to see that chart of you with extrapolations.. I will be doing sets of 6 reps from now but play by intuition so that I'm more or less exhausted by the end of each set and fully exhausted at the end of the 4th set (20-6-6-6).

Hmmm quit the isolated exercises and focus on compound exercises.. what on earth do you do for the quads if you hate the squat.. I would like to do the squat, but my achilles tendons are so short that I tumble over backwards..

Edit: I thought about the front squat as an alternative!

Luckily it is the hamstrings where I need to work on most of all.. I have gone back to clipless (Speedplay!) just 1,5 month ago!
I feel my hamstrings all the time now! Deadlifts for you madam! yessir!

fietser_ivana

Well, to be honest.. I have only done aquajogging once before but liked it a lot! There is one prob , actually 2 with spinning lessons which makes me hesitant to do them more often
- some exercises (going back & forth between saddle and standing) give me immediate knee pain and aren't really very cycling specific
- the gym is at 13 K and I hate cycling in the gloomy dark.. there are only 2 spinning lessons in the morning

This week I was supposed to do aquajogging & legs on Monday, but I didn't do either of them on Mon, but on Tuesday and only then because my fysiotherapist recommended to do them... I had started doing the hip & gluteus exercises on Saturday and my muscle pain in gluteus and hamstrings was so bad that it was still hurting on Tuesday. Hence, I moved it to Monday.. .. now I did them on Tuesday. Surprisingly I was still able to spin quite well on Wednesday!
Instead of aquajogging on Monday, I could try to see what happens if I do it on Wednesday.. then I'd spin in the morning and jog in the evening.. (that swimming pool is just 2 K away).
But I will only do that when I won't be able to move any leg muscle at all on Monday evening



On Tuesday I'm doing db press & db flyes for chest , triceps extension & db kickback for tri and biceps curl plus Preacher curl for biceps (with the db rolling almost out of my fingers to make it a wrist exercise as well) finishing it off with a reverse wrist curl (tiny weights).
On Thursday, I use 3 exercises for the back: assisted chin up , the cable seated row and the good morning. After which I do shoulders with arnold press and lateral raise.
I thought about switching these 2 days around.. as my chin up is compromised on Thursday when my triceps are still tired..

Instead of moving the biceps to back day, I'd rather move the triceps to the back day.. as I heard the muscles of the triceps are partially found on the back..

Does this mean that I should move shoulders to the chest day as well? And do chest-shoulders-biceps-wrist instead.. ?
Wouldn't my switching routine work just as well.. (wk 1 chest-tri-bi on Tues, wk2 on Thursday) it sounds a bit like what you mentioned in your first post of
monday - Legs to failure, chest medium workout, back light workout
wednesday - legs light, chest heavy, back medium
Friday - legs medium, chest light, back heavy

???

Maelstrom 

Its a 22 week routine with three different workouts (give or take a week). One for cardio, power and size/strength. Not too complicated when you look at it like that.

That is a mix of routine two and three depending on intensity. If you aren't failing on the possitive than I would clasify that as my routine three which means you are ready for power routine number 1 ...

Routine 1 while looking like it won't do much cardio wise does burn TONNES of calories due to the pure intensity of it. It is very brutal and you should have someone who you the exercises in proper form. Here is a more detail breakdown.

1 BACK
light - hyperextension no failure (streches and relaxes my very overworked lumbars)
medium - barbell row (power and size on upper and lower back)
heavy - deadlift (this is a calorie burner and works hams, butt, lumbars and upper back. This IS the second best exercise to do for the whole body behind the squat)

2 - CHEST
light - flyes (stetch position light weight not failure)
medium - dumbell press
heavy - bench (I don't like these due to should injuries so I am super careful)

3 - LEGS (I LOVE LOVE LOVE hurting my legs)
light - superset leg ext and leg curl (I get a thick and deep pump)
medium - leg press no failure. Just to pump them up more
heavy - leg press...I kill them...brutal...pain...ahhhhh

This was the most effective routine I have ever done for burning calories and putting on power and strength...

Perfect time to push your power and strength...you will have a lot of time to recover by doing something similar for 6 weeks to my power section. The thing with power workouts that people don't always realize is it doesn't ALWAYS relate to size. Power relates to muscle fibres and speed...so if you gain power you won't always put on muscle weight.

It is 5 or 7 years old from a magazine. I 'think' I have a hardcopy somewhere around. I haven't done any personal training in years so most of my white papers are packed away.

Have you tried placing a small weight (stand on the edge of a metal plate) under your heels. This usually prevents over stretching...

If you can do them, try it. I fell over a lot..my balance for some reason sucks on this exercise.

Lunges instead of leg presses on a medium day would work too. You don't use much weight but you hit very difficult to reach muscles. Walking lunges kick ass (literally). I do 3 sets of 12 walking across my house. My gf always busts a gut because of the grunting and groaning...

Maelstrom 

Ok...it sounds like you have a muscular imbalance from your hams to your quads. Do you know what you strength ratio is between the two. For example if you can max leg extend 100pnds what can you leg curl (using your own weights obviously). It should be a minimum of 1:1 strenght wise. It is better to have stronger hams than quads for athletic performance (sprinters for example have 1:1.25 (quad to ham) ratio. This reduces injury risk and has a noticable increase in leg power (notice I never use strength...strength is almost useless if you can't reproduce that strength in sport...hence power)

Ok...now...with routine number 1 you never work arms or shoulder alone. They are worked out as a secondary (inclusive with the routine itself) and get more than enough work from the routine. Your routine mentioned was more of a bodybilding routing hitting every muscle group once per week in a 3 day split (I am not including cardio days as they are in essence different). A typical 3 day split is

day 1 - chest, shoulders, triceps
day 3 - back, biceps (I do 4 exercises for back as it is a MASSIVE muscle area that is hard to hit with only three exercises)
day 5 - Legs (myfastest and most brutal part of my workout)

I work abs every workout and wamrup my torso (hyperextension for lumbars) every workout as I have in the past had back problems. This can be mixe up in varrying ways but you want it generally even. If for example you can get a good pump with your arm by doing triceps and biceps at the same time then by all means go ahead. I just found working them on seperate days for more effective. I like to work shoulders with chest because most chest exercises really nail the front delt. I might as well include shoulder with chest since it has already been worked a bit. With an old shoulder injury I really cant work shoulders more than once a week.

Now to confuse even more I may even do this to the routine

day 1 - chest and front delt with triceps (pushing muscles)
day 3 - back, rear delt, lateral raises and biceps (pulling muscles)
day 5 - legs

...so many variations to so many choices. You have to find what works your muscles best. I worked out for 2 years trying everything in magazines until I found a series of routines that gave 'me' what 'i' wanted. Sports performance was always my goal. Jump higher, run faster, be bigger...Figure out your goals...experiment and have fun (hence the reason to switch routines)

Just a note...I speak about legs but in reality I am blessed with thick legs and calves. I don't have to work them very hard to get a pump and increase strength...if leg press does nothing for you find something else. In reality, I can walk and build size on my thighs...

fietser_ivana

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maelstrom


Ok...it sounds like you have a muscular imbalance from your hams to your quads. Do you know what you strength ratio is between the two. For example if you can max leg extend 100pnds what can you leg curl (using your own weights obviously). It should be a minimum of 1:1 strenght wise. It is better to have stronger hams than quads for athletic performance (sprinters for example have 1:1.25 (quad to ham) ratio. This reduces injury risk and has a noticable increase in leg power (notice I never use strength...strength is almost useless if you can't reproduce that strength in sport...hence power)
The imbalance is quite severe you know.. I never was comfortable with SPD-clipless and only used them for about 1-2 years.. and used flat pedals and cage pedals until about 6 wks ago...
For curiosity I give you 2 numbers.. the 2nd last and last workout.. there is 16 days of cycle-touring in Portugal in between (actually just 8 days) and lots of short not too steep but still difficult hills in between.. it did improve my leg power!

I'll give you my numbers.. pathetic!! I didn't mention just the leg press for nothing!
2nd last workout on Oct 30, last one on Nov 26. First BFL-style, 2nd new workout .. am still tweaking this one..

Leg press :
12x90kg, 10x100kg, 8x110kg, 6x120 kg, 12x110 kg.
10x100 kg , 6x120kg, 6x130kg, 5x150kg , 4x160kg..

Leg extension:
Oct 30:just 12x50 kg (in BFL style you do this one to almost failure imm after leg press)
Nov 26: 6x45, 6x50m 4x55, 4x60kg

Romanian DL:
Oct 30: 12x12kg, 10x15 kg, 8x20 kg, 6x25 kg , 12x20 kg.
Nov 26: 10x15kg, 6x20kg, 6x25kg, 5x27,5 kg, 4x30kg, 6x32,5kg.. when I was warmed up.. things started moving better.

Seated leg curl:
Oct 30 : 12x45 kg (one set to almost failure imm after DL)
Nov 26: 10x35, 6x45, 5x50, 4x50 ..
I had thought to reach, but no luck..

I should say that it is like: 55 kg for leg extension and 50 kg for leg curl.. with trouble... balance is 1,10:1 (quad:hams)

Maelstrom 

Thats actually not too bad. A lot of civies has a 1:.75 ratio when starting out. Ok to work you hamstrings more try a couple of twists

1 - on leg press place you feet high on the board. This hit the glute / ham connector

2 - Do leg extensions last and try to fatigue your hamstring quicker


3 - do you have a lying leg curl? I find is stretches the hamstring more effectively thus putting more pressure and strengthing the hamstring more effectively...

4 - Lunges, Lunges, Lunges...go deep with these keeping your forward knee over the heel of your foot. If these hurt your knees that would really suck but it is worth a try.

5 - nice call on the romanian deadlifts...they rule if you do them with good form.

Enjoy and keep on working. You sound like you are well on your way and you see major improvements next spring..

fietser_ivana

Re: hamstrings...I hate, truly hate the lying leg curl! I can't do them..my torso is simply too short to be comfortable on these torture devices.. I end up with my back in a U-shape and still can't curl those damn pads.. I feel less pathetic in a seated leg curl... here are some numbers for May when I did them last time: 3 sets with 15 kg of 8-8-9 reps..

Lunges.. oh, I didn't tell you I do them for my gluteus (butt)! But actually they even work the hams harder..
For gluteus I do:
db lunges indeed.. very low weights now as I only just added them back on last Saturday, hence the profound pain in my butt and gluteus... (my physiotherapist had me do them in Spring when I was in rehab for my injured foot). Man, I can't remember that my butt ever hurt that much! .. i couldn't even sit properly on Sunday.. that's why I added them to leg day and do just hips separately on Saturday.

#s for gluteus exercises:
squat lunge = one step forward, with other knee almost touching floor.. and then going backwards with force coming from rear foot. I have to do this very slowly, esp. for left foot as I nerly topple sideways.. this is for each leg of course
- 10x4kg (8) ,6x6kg (12) ,5x7kg (14),and another 4x7 (14) as I
couldn't do it with the planned 8 kg...

step up.. similar to db lunge, but now by stepping up onto a platform of approx. knee height.. I find this very hard to do as well.. if only to remember which foot to put back down first. If you stand a little bit further away, it's for the gluteus&hams I read, closer for quads.
- 10x4,6x6,5x7,4x7 kg.. exactly the same..

standing gluteus: 10x30kg,6x40kg,5x45kg,6x50kg (both L&R again..).

because of the 6reps of the last set, I decided to do a 20-rep set as a warmup rather than a 10rep set.. and take a 3x6 rep approach as well... at times I ended up with 8 reps for the last set,though I had struggled through the 2nd and 3rd sets.

Maelstrom 

Well it sounds like you are well on your way to equal strength. Too bad you don't like lying leg curls. I find seated may isolate the hamstring really really well but I find it doesn't work the glutes as well. But you definately more than make up for it

Congrats on a well thought out plan.

fietser_ivana

And thank you for your help! It's frustrating that most people on the cycling forums aren't very interested in resistance training despite the benefits..
On the other hand, the BB-forums where I hang out sometimes seem a bunch of vain nitwits who just want to add muscle and aren't interested in strength just in looking good. Being men, most of them really hate working their legs..

Will let the board know how things go.. I will try to add weight carefully as having back or knee pain is the last thing I want..

Back extensions ??? OK, will remember that too... lots of things to think about.

Do you know what amazes me most when I'm in the gym? That I'm nearly always the only one carrying wads of paper with the planned workouts pre-printed and scribbling down the results immediately... if I hadn't had a computer crash, I'd have had all date from previous winters...

Maelstrom 

Give it time. I don't use bits of paper anymore as I remember my weights and the workout I want to do. I remember key parts of my workout like failure sets and weights etc...

fubar5

I lift, but I don't know what my 1RM is. The phase I am in right now is geared towards muscle hypotrophy(building new muscle tissue). It is mainly high reps, at effort 7 of 10(burn,but not fatigue or failure). In 3 weeks I'll start into teh strength phase, which is more sets of less reps, and effort 9 of 10, which is fatigue point. On the side I have cross-training(mostly running, but I'm going to get some skates) and lots of bike riding. My ultimate goal is bike racing, but I'd like to do some triathlons also, so my training is geared towards a good power-to weight ratio.

I definetly agree that weight lifting is beneficial to cycling,I feel ten times better on the bike when I lift.

fietser_ivana

One more question... does lifting weight make your rest rate drop?

I've got a rather low rest rate already, and it is either a glitch , or my numbers are getting seriously low... I saw 29 again this morning.
I have seen that number only once before: a few days after a vaccination for yellow fever (prior to leaving for South America).
I had a cardiogram made but everything seemed fine..

Should I be worried? My fit rest rate is 32-35 bpm. Somehow a number with a 2 in front makes me feel much more worried than 30 or 31

fietser_ivana

Fat chance... I am known for my very short attention span in memory. Strangely, when I really concentrate, I manage better. I forgot my planning paper on Thursday, and then remembered the routine I was supposed to do with a bit of guessing for the weights. Afterwards, I lost that paper as well (or rather the person to whom I gave it to read lost it.. on the other side was a letter I had printed for him to read) and I had to remember the numbers again when recording the stuff in the spread sheet..

Maelstrom 

Yes it does lower your heart rate. But this is generally considered a good thing as it removes undue pressure from your heart.

I am not sure what you are refering to with your 'fit' rest rate. Do you mean you heart rate at rest. If so that is exceptionally low. Endurance runners have around 40 I believe. Do you use a monitor or do you count while using your fingers? I would be concerned about innacuracies or some sort of problem. If there are not any innacuracies I would consult a doctor just to be sure everything was good with the heart with a resting heart rate that low. I believe the norm is 60 to 75. To be honest I did a quick search and couldn't find any information about really low RHR.

To be honest I don't track my heart rate. I usually just go by the old talking rule. If you can talk you aren't going 'really' hard...I also interval my training so I go from intense to slow to medium in my cardio as well. I also think the water aerobics may have more to do with the reduction than any weight lifting you are doing ...

Also the vaccination would have affected the RHR numbers. Even a common cold wrecks havok on the measuring increasing your hr by 3 to 5 bpm. So that first time really could have been a chemical glitch...

Cheers...

fietser_ivana

I'm not altogether sure whether the Polar HRM is working accurately, I have had some funny things happening to it and took it to the jeweler.. (it received a new battery a few wks before).

The 32 number was reconfirned in a Swedish hospital once in 1999 when they observed me a full night after a crash (collided with a concrete bar perpendicular to the road when I was just consulting the map in my bar bag) which made me somersault, land on my back, crack the helmet and lose consciousness for about 30 mins..

the 32 # is at night /in the morning when I'm lying very still... however, when I'm not fit it raises to about 40 bpm.. the number I've recorded by fingertips many many many years ago already when I was a kid.. I thought I was mistaken and that it should have been 80.. not so!

I'm thinking of getting myself monitored again to be sure...

Oh, and regarding the 250 kg 1RM leg press.. um it was an incorrectly performed leg press with a knee angle greater than 90 deg I was told today.. with an angle of less than 90 deg, I got to about 200 today when I tried again.. just too curious!

I also tried the front squat (before I used the leg press).. some people that work in the gym don't give good instructions I heard later...
I was told to hold the bar in my elbows but this link shows various possibilities of which the hands are always best..

https://www.olympus.net/personal/cablebar/FS.htm

what I liked was that this site says the front squat is more quad-specific than the regular squat...

Maelstrom 

Front squat is a tough exercise. Also try hack squat (hold the bar at you bumb and squatting

fietser_ivana

But wouldn't that give the same prob... of tumbling over backwards.. Plus i still have that mean 9-month old plantar fasciatis prob... was told to walk or run as little as possible.. but weight lifting and cycling was OK.. said the doc...

Maelstrom 

IT is something different to try. It takes a while to get the balance but it is a good different exercise. Have you tried placing you heels on a weight when squatting. The removes most of the stretch from you achilles tendon.