Namenda

Excellent point. Lance Armstrong has been accused of innumerable offenses by his detractors, but I don't recall anyone ever saying he's a blithering idiot. Additionally, no doctor in his right mind would ask a patient about illicit drug use while unconcerned persons were present.

Lance beat the Frenchies in their race seven times, and they hate him for it. And some of the Lance-haters out there will continue to grasp at straws until their dying days. I honestly don't know if he cheated or not. If he did, and kept it under wraps this well, then it proves he isn't as stupid as this "article" tries to portray him.

El Diablo Rojo

Ever been really sick, near death? I have and I had my friends and family in the hospital room with my doctors asking me questions that were pretty private and very sensitive. Had it been a routine examination there is no way I would have had those people in the room. However I was scared and I needed the support of friends and family. During my 12 week stay in the hospital my friends witnessed a lot things that if I were in better condition would have never seen.

Trevor98

Hopefully, the allegations against the next TdF winner will stifle allegations against LA and we can all move on to relevant issues.

El Diablo Rojo

Are bratwurst and strudel considered banned substances?

steve_wmn

Not exactly. If you go back a couple of years and watch the '03 or '04 TdF coverage from OLN you'll notice that Frankie Andreu was their man to interview anyone BUT Lance in the pre-race and post-race staging areas. They had another guy to interview Lance that wasn't nearly as qualified because Frankie and Lance were not on good terms. I don't know the history but I think Frankie was let go from the Postal team under difficult circumstances.

The Velonews write-up on this story is interesting because they cite a Dr. Nichols who was also in the room when this discussion takes place and he apparently signed an affidavit that refutes everything that Betsy says. One of them is lying, neither of them is above reproach and who really knows. This dead horse is so old that even the flies have moved on. No need to beat it anymore.

Smoothie104

signing an affidavit that you didnt hear anything plays right along with the Doctor patient confidentiality thing he's supposed to be following anyways.

Frankie retired after completeing 9 TdF's and 11 full seasons as a European Professional Rider, he didn't leave on bad terms, in fact, he stayed on the payroll as Director of the US squad for US Postal.

Again, the ones who have the courage to come forward are lambasted, Every one is looking for a way to Slam and Discredit Betsy, thats a shame.

Lemond has the Oakely gal on tape apparently, saying she was in the room, and heard it all. Let's discredit Greg's obviously french made tape recorder.

ElJamoquio

I could, if it was as important as this...

RacerX

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...n06/jun23news2

Barely three weeks after the Vrijman report dismissed L'Equipe's allegations that Lance Armstrong used EPO in 1999, the now retired seven-time Tour champion has come under fire from another angle. French newspaper Le Monde is reporting in its Friday edition that Armstrong admitted to using performance enhancing drugs prior to contracting testicular cancer in 1996.

The allegations were made during the SCA Promotions vs. Armstrong trial that is in progress in Lance's home state of Texas. SCA Promotions is an insurance company that paid Armstrong millions of dollars for his Tour wins after the team took out a $420,000 insurance policy in 2001. But following the publication of David Walsh and Pierre Ballester's book, LA Confidentiel, les secrets de Lance Armstrong, which alleged that Armstrong had used illegal drugs, SCA disputed the $5 million payment for the 2004 Tour, saying that it wanted evidence (Armstrong's medical records, for example) that the allegations were untrue.

In court statements obtained by Le Monde, Betsy Andreu, the partner of Armstrong's ex-teammate and friend Frankie Andreu, related her version of events that took place in an Indiana hospital on October 28, 1996, while he was being treated for cancer. "[The doctor] started to ask him banal questions, I don't remember," Le Monde quoted from an excerpt of Betsy Andreu's testimony. "And all of a sudden, bang, have you ever taken doping products? He replied, yes. [The doctor] asked which ones. And Lance replied: EPO, growth hormones, cortisone, steroids, testosterone."

Betsy Andreu's statement was made on January 17, 2006, and according to Le Monde, backed up what her husband had said to the court on October 25, 2005. "I don't know how the doctor formulated his question, but the response was that he had taken EPO, testosterone, growth hormones and cortisone," said Frankie Andreu.

But a third person present at the hospital in 1996, Stephanie McIlvain, an employee of Armstrong's sunglasses sponsor Oakley, denied the Andreus' version of events. In her testimony on November 14, 2005, she said that there was no conversation like that between Armstrong and his doctors. But her story has been questioned by Greg Lemond, who recorded a phone conversation with McIlvain on September 21, 2004, where she said, "If I am cited, I'll do it...For I won't lie. You know I was in the room. I heard."

Three others were also in the hospital room: his then girlfriend, Lisa Shiels, his trainer Chris Carmichael, and Carmichael's wife Paige. Neither those, nor the doctors who operated on Armstrong, were called to give evidence by the lawyers of the Texan, nor SCA Promotions.

Lance Armstrong's own deposition, given on November 30, 2005, denied that any doctor had asked him whether he had used performance enhancing drugs. He claimed that Betsy Andreu had a grudge against him, and Frankie Andreu gave the same story to support his wife.

El Diablo Rojo

Velonews.com


Armstrong issues statement
This report filed June 23, 2006
Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong issued the following statement in response to allegations outlined in articles slated to appear this weekend in Le Monde and L'Equipe.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statement from Lance Armstrong
I recently won a major arbitration, defeating allegations of performance enhancing drugs, after a three week trial. Several accusations made the subject of prior rumors were fully and finally considered by an impartial panel which heard many witnesses under oath. After years of litigation and three weeks of trial, and " having considered the evidence and testimony" the panel ordered the insurance company to pay, not the $5mm owed, but that $5mm and an additional $2.5mm, which confirms the baseless nature of the accusations. The allegations were rejected. It's over. We won. They lost. I was yet again completely vindicated

After having been illegally provided selective items from that trial, and on the eve of the 2006 Tour de France, a French newspaper again publishes stale, unfounded and untrue allegations about me. Any assertion that drug-related issues were not fully and finally considered is false; had the trial concerned only whether the money was owed because of my 2004 victory, the proceedings would have consumed less than an hour.

The latest story, which alleges an admission of using performance enhancing drugs in a hospital in 1996, is today as absurd and untrue as when it was first circulated years ago. It never happened. The hospital allegation was made against me during a trial before three highly astute and respected arbitrators by an insurance company as its basis for not paying a 5mm bonus (and to recover $4.5mm paid for 2002 and 2003 bonuses) for winning the 2004 Tour de France. Not only did I win this trial, but the company was ordered to pay the $5mm plus an additional $2.5 mm in penalty.

The event reported in France never happened and the evidence presented to the panel proved it never happened. The two persons relied upon by the French newspaper had a different story than the other 8 people in the room. Mr. and Mrs. Andreu stated that they left the room right after the statement, could remember no other questions asked before or after, no details of who I was allegedly talking to, whether men or women, whether doctors or residents, or why I would have been asked this information in front of 10 people, including my mother, in a TV room watching the Dallas Cowboys play football on a Sunday afternoon. By that Sunday, I had been in the hospital 11 days, had given numerous medical histories, previously undergone a regimen of intensive chemotherapy, and undergone extensive brain surgery on the prior Thursday. Ms. Andreu confirmed her ignorance of steroids prescribed as part of my post-operative treatment and of EPO also included in my required post-operative regimen, subjects which could conceivable arisen under the circumstances.

In addition to sworn testimony to the contrary by others present, the panel (and the insurance company) were provided certified copies of all medical records by the Indiana cancer hospital. While any suggestion that medical professionals did not take my medical history until three days after conducting extensive brain surgery is, on its face, preposterous, it is inconceivable that the records, which contain a description of every interaction with me, would not reflect such a critical response. There is no suggestion of either such a question or response in over 20 medical histories recorded among the 280 pages of records compiled during my hospital stay. My doctor, one of the premier cancer specialists in the country, also testified no such statement was made by me to him and a statement made to another would have to appear in the records. It's not there because it never happened.

I respected the panel's unconditional prohibition against providing any documents or testimony to others, and made no mention of this complete victory. Others did not, as selected items have apparently been recently released to the press. We have instituted proceedings to determine who did so; ironically, but predictably, our investigation to date has revealed that the only person to whom documents have been provided by any trial participant is Richard Pound of WADA. It is indeed coincidental that the documents provided to the press surfaced shortly after the independent investigator from the UCI released his report which exonerated me and was sharply critical of Mr. Pound's conduct.

My life and all my energy are devoted to the cure and treatment of cancer and cancer survivors. During my professional cycling career, particularly during its last seven years, I have had to repeatedly address this issue, which I have willingly done. Further discussion by me serves no purpose other than to dignify accusations which have been repeatedly investigated and rejected by every body, tribunal and court to consider them. I will not further dignify them, although I have authorized my legal representatives to provide responsive documents when appropriate.

Trevor98

This whole thing today seems like a distraction from the Vrijman report. Attack the credibility of the Media at your own peril. Hopefully, sometime we (the world) can get back to discussing the failings of WADA (an IOC organization).

BillyBob

Why do some people believe that Lance should admit to doping if he really did dope?

If the cycling authorities did not retroactively change the recorded outcomes of races based upon doping tests done five or more years after the event in question, perhaps more riders would be candid about doping upon retirement.

I think that people ask Lance to do things that they would never do themselves.

jslopez

This latest accusation comes in really convenient as the tables were turned back to Dick Pound and LA's call for his removal.

Not the biggest Lance fan here, but this is a painfully obvious smoke screen.

This news/debate isn't even new just rehashed to create distraction and doubt.

Crack'n'fail

He said. She said.

The courts heard all of these allegations and apparantly decided to award Lance his settlement. L'Equipe took the part they liked from the hearing and printed it. It will all blow over eventually and Lance will come out unscathed and L'Equipe will sell a lot of magazines. This is how it works.

If you think it's because they are French and unreliable, I highly recommend you pay more attention to how media outlets in the US selectively report to put a spin on a story that will sell.

jslopez

LA will never truly be exonerated because of the spin factor.

There's always a way to spin stuff in his favor or against it. My only concern now is the timing of this latest "new" allegation.

Basically if you keep yelling something long enough people will tend to believe it's true. With the slew of armstrong allegations the argument can be made that, if he's so innocent why are there so many citations against him. Counter, then why hasn't anything been conclusively been proved? to the third person who walks by, all he hears is ARMSTRONG blah blah blah DOPING blah blah blah GUILTY.

Snicklefritz

This dead horse is so old that even the flies have moved on. No need to beat it anymore.[/QUOTE]


+100 Way to go!
Brilliant line!!!

cooker

Either "I couldn't care less" or "I could care less" can be used to indicate that you don't care. The first version is a simple statement of fact, the second is the more subtle ironic version.

Ostuni

have not read the entire thread, but this morning's 'weekend edition saturday' on npr had an unusually long segment on the issue... will edit this post when there's a link to the broadcast...

pretty damning stuff, but, unless i missed something on that story and in this thread, seems like some important actors in the drama have not been heard from: the 'two guys in white coats' at the indiana hospital to whom the admission was made...?

DocRay

The ******* is on the Jon Stewart Show monday-should be good.

'nother

^^ meh, Stewart, what a softie! He should go on The Colbert Report, and really get to the truthiness of the matter

DocRay

Colbert is more Lincolnish.

Ostuni

This morning's NPR story on the issue.

Ostuni

this morning's npr story made me think: GUILTY!
this statement makes me think: INNOCENT!
damn.

El Diablo Rojo

I have to say the NPR story was the most in-depth report I've heard/read so far. When you hear the statements made by the Andrau's and the statements made by Lance directly from the transcripts it seems like LA is lying. It's hard to believe that Betsy would commit a felony, lying under oath, just because she doesnt' like Lance. I also find it hard to believe that Lance was never asked by any of his doctors at any time if had used PED's. When I was in my for my stress test earlier this year my doc asked me if I used PED's and I'm just a some slow local racer! Also LA's doc says he doesn't 'know' of anytime that LA admitted drug use is much different than LA never admitted drug use.

I guess in the big picture it really doesn't matter as we will never know conclusively if he did or didn't use PED's. In next few months the Spanish Affair will start to really gather steam and we'll all be focused on that. For me it doesn't matter, Lance was a great cyclist and watching him ride was something special. That was more than just drugs, that Jordan-esq talent.

jkoman

I am not sure whether, weather you are correct or not? I will tell you this...it is important, this whole situation. This could be a defining moment, when we look back, on whether the sport allows drug use or not. They may actually try and eliminate the drugs, which really hasn't been done yet. When this fails...which I think it is doomed to....we may see controlled drug use in about 10-15 years traced back to this and the spanish case. We are beginning to see enough evidence to prevent anyone, except those with blinders on ,from doubting the extent of this problem.

For those who don't get it...

The drugs really work
The racing is soooo hard
The culture is established
The evidence is overwhelming
The testing continues to fail
Time and time again we see x riders admit drug use while riding

And most damning....do you see a concerted effort by any riders to go after the drug users?

iab

My .02 as someone who works in the healthcare indusry, what stikes me odd is that if a healthcare provider is taking a history, it gets recorded. After HIPAA https://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/ was passed in 1996, everyone in the healthcare industry knows the consequences of not following procedure. The hospital would open itself up to a lawsuit and the physicians doing the history would get fired and could get their licences pulled if it was not recorded into the patient record. It seems like a very high risk to take for a guy who hasn't won 1, let alone 7 TdF.