Catch all Professional Cycling Chat (Possible Spoilers)
07-18-15, 05:54 PM
#601
out walking the earth
Do you really think I'm angry?
I don't even know what that stuff is, so why would it make me angrier than you already think I am? I'm not even sure how them drinking or not drinking that stuff has anything to do with anything I've said.
Last edited by gsteinb; 07-18-15 at 05:59 PM.
07-18-15, 07:47 PM
#603
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Ritchie Porte was reported to be punched. Froome, urine in face.
This whole thing of pros doing what they need to win is just so much of what pro sports are. Getting assaulted - while it happens, puts this on another level.
The arbitrary enforcement, the penalizing based on assumption of guilt (I assume guilt - just I wouldn't do anything about it until it was shown) are bigger issues than what riders may/may not do (cheating or not).
The authorities (UCI/WADA/USADA) created most these issues by the rules they put in place and their arbitrary enforcement of them. The fix lies with them, not the riders.
This whole thing of pros doing what they need to win is just so much of what pro sports are. Getting assaulted - while it happens, puts this on another level.
The arbitrary enforcement, the penalizing based on assumption of guilt (I assume guilt - just I wouldn't do anything about it until it was shown) are bigger issues than what riders may/may not do (cheating or not).
The authorities (UCI/WADA/USADA) created most these issues by the rules they put in place and their arbitrary enforcement of them. The fix lies with them, not the riders.
07-18-15, 08:15 PM
#605
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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it's a drink that gives riders an alternate energy source in their blood alongside glycogen. essentially energy system boosting. would be incredibly unfair if one team had it and the others did not, but it's currently not banned. linky Ketones: Controversial new energy drink could be next big thing in cycling - Cycling Weekly
07-18-15, 09:27 PM
#606
Killing Rabbits
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Free paper
Acute nutritional ketosis: implications for exercise performance and metabolism
More ∆H°
PubMed Central, Table 1: Extrem Physiol Med. 2014; 3: 17. Published online 2014 Oct 29. doi:* 10.1186/2046-7648-3-17
"Competing interests
Professor Kieran Clarke is a non-executive director of TdeltaS Ltd, a spin out company of the University of Oxford, which owns the intellectual property rights to the D-3-β-hydroxybutyrate-1,3-butanediol ketone monoester."
Acute nutritional ketosis: implications for exercise performance and metabolism
More ∆H°
PubMed Central, Table 1: Extrem Physiol Med. 2014; 3: 17. Published online 2014 Oct 29. doi:* 10.1186/2046-7648-3-17
"Competing interests
Professor Kieran Clarke is a non-executive director of TdeltaS Ltd, a spin out company of the University of Oxford, which owns the intellectual property rights to the D-3-β-hydroxybutyrate-1,3-butanediol ketone monoester."
Last edited by Enthalpic; 07-18-15 at 09:36 PM.
07-18-15, 09:53 PM
#607
Killing Rabbits
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The stuff is well tolerated except at high doses (craps, pukes and bloating)
Kinetics, safety and tolerability of (R)-3-hydroxybutyl (R)-3-hydroxybutyrate in healthy adult subjects
Conflict of interest statement
The intellectual property covering the uses of ketone bodies and ketone esters are owned by BTG Ltd., the University of Oxford and the National Institutes of Health. Should royalties ever accrue from these patents, Dr. Richard L. Veech, Professor Kieran Clarke, and Mr. Todd King, as inventors, will receive a share of the royalties under the terms prescribed by each institution. Professor Kieran Clarke is a non-executive director of TdeltaS Ltd., a company spun out of the University of Oxford to develop products based on the science of ketone bodies in human nutrition. Drs Kathy Musa- Veloso, Manki Ho, and Ashley Roberts received financial support from DARPA and TdeltaS Limited for consulting services and manuscript preparation.
Kinetics, safety and tolerability of (R)-3-hydroxybutyl (R)-3-hydroxybutyrate in healthy adult subjects
If I had to hazard a wild guess as to what the secret doping sauce is, I'd pick something that trickled down from the "Metabolically Dominant Soldier" program that DARPA got 3 billion dollars for back between 2002 and 2006, and then shut down. Those four years must have produced something.
The intellectual property covering the uses of ketone bodies and ketone esters are owned by BTG Ltd., the University of Oxford and the National Institutes of Health. Should royalties ever accrue from these patents, Dr. Richard L. Veech, Professor Kieran Clarke, and Mr. Todd King, as inventors, will receive a share of the royalties under the terms prescribed by each institution. Professor Kieran Clarke is a non-executive director of TdeltaS Ltd., a company spun out of the University of Oxford to develop products based on the science of ketone bodies in human nutrition. Drs Kathy Musa- Veloso, Manki Ho, and Ashley Roberts received financial support from DARPA and TdeltaS Limited for consulting services and manuscript preparation.
Last edited by Enthalpic; 07-18-15 at 09:56 PM.
07-18-15, 10:41 PM
#608
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another level-headed perspective on this whole thing : Neanderthals, aliens, performance data & context | The Science of Sport
This isn't a simple case of "if A then B". There are just too many little bits of doubt all pointing in the same direction: a repeat of 10-15 year old history. Can I prove anything? No. But I (and others in this thread) have pointed at a whole lot of little bits of doubt.
Skepticism and Suspicion are not Hate, either. There's really no emotion involved, other than a fatalistic "oh jeez this **** again" feeling upon seeing history repeating itself yet again.
Again, I remain open to being convinced otherwise. Present me with an adequate logical contrary response to all of the little bits of doubt. I have yet to hear any that resonated.
This isn't a simple case of "if A then B". There are just too many little bits of doubt all pointing in the same direction: a repeat of 10-15 year old history. Can I prove anything? No. But I (and others in this thread) have pointed at a whole lot of little bits of doubt.
Skepticism and Suspicion are not Hate, either. There's really no emotion involved, other than a fatalistic "oh jeez this **** again" feeling upon seeing history repeating itself yet again.
Again, I remain open to being convinced otherwise. Present me with an adequate logical contrary response to all of the little bits of doubt. I have yet to hear any that resonated.
someone who wants to doubt a performance -- and i understand your skepticism -- is not likely to ever be swayed. it always can come back to "well, yeah, they're just years ahead of the tests."
07-18-15, 10:45 PM
#609
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Bad analogy. There was nothing secret about Landis' position. If you are proposing that using a specific body position is somehow equal to megadoses of EPO then I have to just conclude again,
hopeless.
The point of a debate is simply to get to the truth. Arguments backed up with logic and evidence are considered. Emotional stuff... ignored.
hopeless.
The point of a debate is simply to get to the truth. Arguments backed up with logic and evidence are considered. Emotional stuff... ignored.
i get the take about something that is not-yet-illegal-but-might-be-in-the-future being TECHNICALLY not considered cheating... it seems that, like pornography, it can be hard to define but you know it when you see it.
07-19-15, 12:36 AM
#611
**** that
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Anyway yeah it was a good stage!
Steve Cummings was his name, from MTN Qubeka or whatever they're called.
Great to see him not give up while the two Frenchies played games behind him and lost the gamble. Sagan is probably being forced to eat glass for not winning, again. It wasn't really a finish for him but still, it's gotta hurt.
07-19-15, 01:16 AM
#612
Not actually Tmonk
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I liked Cummings' attack style: He didn't recover in the draft and/or accelerate away from the two Frenchmen - He freight-trained their asses. He knew the finish, and how much bigger, stronger and faster he was. He just got low and put it down, nothing short of 110% dedication and cooperation from the other two would have sufficed.
pwnt.
pwnt.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
07-19-15, 05:02 AM
#613
out walking the earth
Ritchie Porte was reported to be punched. Froome, urine in face.
This whole thing of pros doing what they need to win is just so much of what pro sports are. Getting assaulted - while it happens, puts this on another level.
The arbitrary enforcement, the penalizing based on assumption of guilt (I assume guilt - just I wouldn't do anything about it until it was shown) are bigger issues than what riders may/may not do (cheating or not).
The authorities (UCI/WADA/USADA) created most these issues by the rules they put in place and their arbitrary enforcement of them. The fix lies with them, not the riders.
This whole thing of pros doing what they need to win is just so much of what pro sports are. Getting assaulted - while it happens, puts this on another level.
The arbitrary enforcement, the penalizing based on assumption of guilt (I assume guilt - just I wouldn't do anything about it until it was shown) are bigger issues than what riders may/may not do (cheating or not).
The authorities (UCI/WADA/USADA) created most these issues by the rules they put in place and their arbitrary enforcement of them. The fix lies with them, not the riders.
Meanwhile, in 1950, the French government had to apologise to Italy when drunk spectators blocked the road in the Pyrenees and threatened favourite Gino Bartali, forcing the Italian team to withdraw. Even more extreme was the case of the "fan" who punched five-times Tour winner Eddy Merckx in the kidneys during the 1975 race. Merckx finished the stage, but his attempt to win a sixth Tour was fatally damaged.
and
The world is full of crazy. The tour is often hijacked as a stage for people's causes (tacks on the road in protest of this or that). That it's in full reach of the public makes it a likely stage for antics and potential harm to athletes.
To point the blame at wada or usada or the uci for not managing the drug talk and penalties seems a reach though given that there's a long history of this stuff.
07-19-15, 06:37 AM
#615
gmt
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I wonder what the time cut will be today. Hard to imagine that group with Cav eliminated from the Tour on a stage where he was thought to be a potential winner...
07-19-15, 08:52 AM
#616
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Had to scroll through a bunch of bs religious arguments to find a nugget about the TdF; Mods can we just get it over with move this to 217 or P&R?
Anyway yeah it was a good stage!
Steve Cummings was his name, from MTN Qubeka or whatever they're called.
Great to see him not give up while the two Frenchies played games behind him and lost the gamble. Sagan is probably being forced to eat glass for not winning, again. It wasn't really a finish for him but still, it's gotta hurt.
Anyway yeah it was a good stage!
Steve Cummings was his name, from MTN Qubeka or whatever they're called.
Great to see him not give up while the two Frenchies played games behind him and lost the gamble. Sagan is probably being forced to eat glass for not winning, again. It wasn't really a finish for him but still, it's gotta hurt.
What kind of arrogant **** doesn't know who is in the break with him? Did he discount Sagan, etc, too? Think it was going to be a party between him and Bardet?
I'm glad a bike RACER, and not just someone who can pedal a bike uphill well, beat that insufferable jackass. Because, at the end of the day, you have to be able to corner and descend.
07-19-15, 08:59 AM
#617
Ninny
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Can you link to that? I heard him say something more like Cummings came out of nowhere, which he did. Cummings was off the back early of the initial move on the climb and did an amazing job to grind his way back to the front.
Pinot and Bardet both acknowledged that they blew it by playing games with each other and letting Cummings get back.
07-19-15, 09:15 AM
#620
Ninny
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Actually it looked like Stybar flatted.
Also Lemond just called that a "40-45 mph sprint." OTOH he also congratulated "Marcel Greipel", so take it for what it's worth.
07-19-15, 09:19 AM
#621
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Nah, Stybar held his hand up as warning because he was going backward so fast.
Degenkolb bobs his head like 3x for every pedal stroke. That's the most amazing part.
Degenkolb bobs his head like 3x for every pedal stroke. That's the most amazing part.
07-19-15, 09:33 AM
#623
fuggitivo solitario
Had to scroll through a bunch of bs religious arguments to find a nugget about the TdF; Mods can we just get it over with move this to 217 or P&R?
Anyway yeah it was a good stage!
Steve Cummings was his name, from MTN Qubeka or whatever they're called.
Great to see him not give up while the two Frenchies played games behind him and lost the gamble. Sagan is probably being forced to eat glass for not winning, again. It wasn't really a finish for him but still, it's gotta hurt.
Anyway yeah it was a good stage!
Steve Cummings was his name, from MTN Qubeka or whatever they're called.
Great to see him not give up while the two Frenchies played games behind him and lost the gamble. Sagan is probably being forced to eat glass for not winning, again. It wasn't really a finish for him but still, it's gotta hurt.
there's a reason why there's a separate forum for doping-related topics on the cyclingnews forums, known as the Clinic
07-19-15, 09:54 AM
#624
W**** B*
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That interview with Sagan was TV gold.
"*shrug* Eh, sprinting is like that...it's a lottery...I dunno *shrug*"
"*shrug* Eh, sprinting is like that...it's a lottery...I dunno *shrug*"
07-19-15, 11:20 AM
#625
out walking the earth
Perhaps. It doesn't mean that they're good reasons, or that they relate to this rather small community. Still the complaining just adds more static. If you have an issue you're welcome to contact the admin team and it may or may not change based on what they think.