SugarMonkey

This is becoming an epidemic in the city and is very disheartening that people just don't seem to be looking.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016...son-police-say

kingston 

Very sad. According to the article, it was a right hook, which is the most common and most deadly type of accident for a cyclist, especially when trucks are involved. The article doesn't say whether the truck cut her off or she tried to pass on the right. Either way, it's a good reminder that as cyclists we have to avoid getting caught on the inside of a truck turning right.

FBinNY 

This type of truck right hook is very common, especially in urban areas where traffic may be moving slower.

There's no denying the issue of blind spot, but IMO responsibility for the collision depends on the circumstances. If the driver passed the cyclist it's his job to remember that she's in the blind spot, and track until she appears either in front, or off the back. OTOH - it's possible for a cyclist to slide into the blind spot unseen, in which case the driver has no way of seeing her, and no reason to suspect it.

I make it a practice not to ride between the axles of any truck with a blind spot, especially near intersections. The old rule that if you can't see the driver in his mirror, he can't see you applies.


BTW - it's fine to five cyclists the right of way, but that doesn't change the physics, and lulls the into believing they're safer than they are. Maybe, when cities put in bike lanes with right of way signs, there should also be signs warning about blind spots.

ItsJustMe

As someone who has driven large trucks in the past, you couldn't pay me enough money to be on a bike to the right of a truck if there is ANY doubt as to whether he's turning or not, and even if I'm really pretty sure, I'm watching his turn signals and his front wheel as though I'm a rabbit in the pen with a tiger. The slightest move to the right and I'll be up the curb and on the grass before you can blink.

FBinNY 

I'm with you, but not to the right of a truck depending on my alertness and reflexes. I simply DO NOT ride between the axles, or pass a truck to the right as it slows at an intersection, turn signal on or not.

It's so easy to stay clear of this small, moving section of road. Right hooks are hard to avoid if they're set up, so IMO the issue is one of education for both drivers and bicyclists. But even if drivers are super diligent, they can't be expected to avoid what they can't see.

Moe Zhoost

A darn shame. I don't know what this particular victim did or did not do, but I see cyclists putting themselves in risky situations all the time.

FBinNY 

We also don't know what the driver did or didn't, which is why I reserve judgement, and am not looking to assign blame to either party here. Besides which, I'm not here to assign blame. I'm here to use this instance as an object lesson for anyone new to urban riding.

I have no hard data (or data of any kind), so I'm not looking for a debate, but I suspect that September may be the worst month for right hooks, as a new class of freshmen (includes freshwomen) enter urban colleges and elect to get around by bike.

By the time the peak riding comes around in Spring, those still riding probably are riding smarter.

kingston 

Interesting theory. An 18 year old Northwestern Freshman ran into the back of a cement truck and died last Thursday.

FBinNY 

It hasn't gelled into a theory yet, it's just a hunch. Sorry to hear about that death, every one of these avoidable deaths is one too many. And IME they do seem more common in Sept.

mr_bill

While you are not "looking to assign blame," let's talk about your "[not] gelled into a theory yet."

"The woman, believed to be in her 30s...."
"The woman, in her 30s...."
"A female bicyclist, believed to be in her 30's...."
"The Chicago Fire Department said the victim is a woman in her 40s."

Perhaps you should follow your advice and *actually* "reserve judgement."

-mr. bill

FBinNY 

I know you love to be a critic, but can you tell me where I made any judgement about this case? All I said that I suspected that these accidents might be more common in Sept, when Freshmen hit urban campuses.

You're the one that linked that general statement to this specific case, not me. If you're read my posts on this thread, I never assigned any blame in the case.

One last point. Regardless of the specific cause of right hook incidents, IMO threads like this one best serve if they're used to educate rather than nitpick. I prefaced my suspicion with the desire to avoid debate, but I guess that some people can't resist. I can't help but wonder about how the constant nitpicking and infighting here on A&S can serve any purpose, other than driving away people who might actually care about either A or S.

mr_bill

Emphasis added for someone who needs to look in a mirror.

(FWIW, there also was no bike lane involved in this crash.)

-mr. bill

79pmooney

When I was 12, my best friend's dad, one of the very few hardcore cyclists in Boston in the '60s, told us that if we ever saw the side of a right turning truck in front of us we were soon to die. Not maybe. Many years later, a farm truck passed me and pulled into a farm store parking lot. I was looking at that truck side. It straightened out and I passed it on its right, shaken to the core. The truck had a passenger who screamed I was there. (I never heard the scream 'though I was 6 feet away.) The driver and I knew we had an angel that day.

The month was June. That fall two cyclists were killed by right turning trucks, one a college coed, the other an experienced bike mechanic.

Don't count on my angel being there.

Ben

FBinNY 

I don't get your point.

When I look in the mirror, I don't see a woman, nor do I see anyone either in their 30's or 40's.

Is there some relevance to her age and gender? Or are you just being you?

Maybe you're trying to say that it's not possible for anyone but a woman in her 30's or 40's (maybe one or the other but not both) to learn anything about staying alive on a bike from this tragic incident, certainly not college freshmen (or women) nor anyone who cares about a student and might pass along a reminder about truck blind spots.

God forbid that any thread here on A&S actually tries to discuss safety in a constructive way.

(to anybody reading this, save one, I apologize for the tone, but A&S has become more caustic than Drano lately, and I wish we could get back to constructive posting instead of dealing with snipers who wait to take pot shots on minor details.

mr_bill

Anastasia Kondrasheva

"In Monday's accident, Anastasia Kondrasheva, 23, died after she was hit by a flatbed truck in Roscoe Village on the North Side during the morning rush hour."

"The truck driver, a 38-year-old man, was cited for failure to exercise due care around a pedestrian, said Chicago Police Officer Michelle Tannehill."

Anastasia Kondrasheva.

Look in the mirror! Perhaps you'll see people on bicycles or people walking. I'm so tired of so-called "professional" operators who lack care around people walking and people on bicycles.

-mr. bill

kingston 

If you're waiting for truck drivers to be able to see into their blind-spots, you're going to be waiting an awfully long time. A right hook is one of the easiest accidents for us to avoid. You can see the truck, and you can see the corner. Don't put yourself in between those two things.

mr_bill

The operator passed her and immediately cut her off - which is why the operator got a ticket.

She was visible to the operator - which is why the operator got a ticket.

She didn't put herself between the truck and the corner. The operator of the truck put her there - which is why the operator got a ticket.

-mr. bill

FBinNY 

You are obviously privy to more information that shown in the linked articles. Can you point to a source?

Moe Zhoost

Working at a university and commuting daily through campus, I can attest to the many new riders on the roads in late summer. Most could benefit from some experience. Campus Transportation does hold clinics for new riders, but I have no idea how many take advantage. Also, we have a Zagster bike share program; however I don't see many on the road.

mr_bill

Ghost bike memorial Friday.

-mr. bill

kingston 

This eye-witness report says that both the truck and the cyclist were stopped at the intersection.

Regardless of who got to the intersection first, cyclists should never proceed through an intersection on the right side of a truck. Even if the right hook is the truck driver's fault, the cyclist is the one who gets killed.

Nice to see that the owner of a local supply company who witnessed the accident is installing fender mirrors on all of his trucks.

jeichelberg87

The cyclist was operating correctly. The driver of the truck was operating incorrectly.

The driver should face more severe charges than a simple citation.

Perhaps more severe discipline taken will begin to open the eyes of motorists.

kingston 

The cyclist is dead

The truck driver is alive

Even if you executed the truck driver, the cyclist is still dead.

While we are waiting for the laws to change, I'll continue to advise cyclists to avoid riding through intersections on the right side of a truck.

FBinNY 

These things are more complex that.

IMO the key element is who got there first and when, plus the position of the bicyclist. These details are still not unknown to me, so I'm not assigning any blame, and am more concerned here with takeaways riders can use and learn from.

If the bicycle was there or approaching first and the driver caught up to her at or near the light, it's 100%, undeniably the driver's fault because he knew or should have known she was there and acted accordingly.

However, if the truck were stopped at the corner, and the cyclist rolled up on the right and stopped behind the cab, then she placed herself in the blind spot, and we can say whatever we want but the driver couldn't see her, and I have a hard time blaming anyone for not being psychic.

Regardless of fault, which it isn't my job to apportion, the takeaway here is to not shoal stopped long trucks, and if you do, to make sure you're seen, or have an escape route in the event the truck starts to turn.

I ride among commercial trucks every day, and (hate to admit it) shoal stopped traffic routinely. But if there's a truck at the corner, I either wait behind him, or if there's no turn signal may ride up, but only if I'm confident that I can pass him completely before the light changes. I also make it a point to get the driver's attention, and routinely call out "don't turn right".

In contrast to a post a few up, If I'm next to a truck or bus waiting at the light, I don't wait, and will even jump it slightly to get out in front as the light turns. My acceleration is batter than that of a heavy vehicle so I'm always well clear before he can begin his turn.

So the point here isn't to blame the driver or the cyclist who paid dearly for her mistake IF she made one. It's to remind anyone who cares that cyclists should not spend any time riding or stopped between the front and rear axles because they can't be seen there.

kingston 

I think the definition of shoaling is passing another cyclist at a stoplight, so technically you can't shoal a truck. I also pass traffic on the right at stoplights and blast through before the light turns green, but I am fast and have been riding in Chicago traffic for over 30 years. I wouldn't recommend it for most people.