Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

BB Remove/Replace advice sought

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

BB Remove/Replace advice sought

Old 04-07-15, 02:58 PM
  #1  
tattman23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 54

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 80's Raleigh Pursuit 12-speed "Sport-Touring Geometry" with fully functional QuickStand, thanks Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BB Remove/Replace advice sought

Goal was (is) to replace the BB on a no-name bicycle, due to worn (totally destructed) bearings. There was so much play in the spindle, it was past un-rideable.
I'd say I did it "for the experience" or "to improve my newbie tool arsenal", but that's not the whole story. This aluminum (Columbia "Alum-Comp"?? wth is that anyway?) frame beast is so very feather light... to make a short story long, I wasn't ready to part with it yet. Especially since it's looking like cheap to get it to "useable as a backup" status...

So, a summary (lol) of the saga...
1) The easy part - De-installed cranks with Park Tool implement CCP-22 and a lot of shoulder. Marked the spindle and the cranks so I could orient them the same when I reinstalled (but in hindsight that was pointless, lol).
2) Fun with Leverage - Procured BBT-22, a bolt to hold it in place among the splines, and a Craftsman BFW (LARGE box wrench, clearance priced). Then, I improvised "SbhL" (serious but heavy, leverage) with a 5' length of 3" steel pipe over the BFW.
3) Broke loose the very stubborn bracket (NDS) and removed it along with a destroyed bearing cage, a couple loose balls, and other unidentifiable metal remnants.
4) Continued what was by then becoming an emotional experience, used the same "system" to pull the DS half of the bracket. The spindle came out with that. Then I blew air thru the shell and some more loose balls from the destroyed cage ejected like deershot, into the can I had thoughtfully arranged to receive the debris on the other side..

Tatt 1, BB 0, if you're keeping score.

OK now you know the story, I can get to the question (finally).. I was looking forward to seeing the inside "wall" of the frame's BB shell but, in past the threads there seems to be a smaller diameter "sleeve" looking thing that spans the inner width of the shell that's not threaded. Do I leave that be (is it part of the frame) or do I bash it out of there because it doesn't belong?
I had grand plans to apply vigorous cleaning energy to the inside of the BB shell, but this "reducer" tube is in the way?

And oh yeah, there's no markings related to the BB's size, on the spindle, cups, or any place I can find.
But I'll save the "finding a correct cartridge type square taper replacement BB" chapter for another post.

Thoughts on what that well-attached "tube" is doing inside my BB shell?

Many Thanks for your patient consideration,
Tatt
tattman23 is offline  
Old 04-07-15, 04:28 PM
  #2  
hueyhoolihan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Above ground, Walnut Creek, Ca
Posts: 6,681

Bikes: 8 ss bikes, 1 5-speed touring bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
some old cup and ball BB's with square tapered spindles had a plastic liner running the width of the BB shell to protect the bearings, et.al. from debris. if that's what you are referring to. it can be destructively removed if necessary, IME.

just a reminder, make sure the downtube, seattube and chainstays are devoid of loose ball bearings, they can get stuck and then come loose later. besides being a nuisance to get them out, they can drive you crazy trying to find out the source of the noise.

they can look something like this, when removed. this one has a bit of the accordion about it:


Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 04-07-15 at 04:33 PM.
hueyhoolihan is offline  
Old 04-07-15, 05:00 PM
  #3  
cale
Senior Member
 
cale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,250

Bikes: Kuota Ksano. Litespeed T5 gravel - brilliant!

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by tattman23 View Post
Goal was (is) to replace the BB on a no-name bicycle, due to worn (totally destructed) bearings. There was so much play in the spindle, it was past un-rideable.
I'd say I did it "for the experience" or "to improve my newbie tool arsenal", but that's not the whole story. This aluminum (Columbia "Alum-Comp"?? wth is that anyway?) frame beast is so very feather light... to make a short story long, I wasn't ready to part with it yet. Especially since it's looking like cheap to get it to "useable as a backup" status...

So, a summary (lol) of the saga...
1) The easy part - De-installed cranks with Park Tool implement CCP-22 and a lot of shoulder. Marked the spindle and the cranks so I could orient them the same when I reinstalled (but in hindsight that was pointless, lol).
2) Fun with Leverage - Procured BBT-22, a bolt to hold it in place among the splines, and a Craftsman BFW (LARGE box wrench, clearance priced). Then, I improvised "SbhL" (serious but heavy, leverage) with a 5' length of 3" steel pipe over the BFW.
3) Broke loose the very stubborn bracket (NDS) and removed it along with a destroyed bearing cage, a couple loose balls, and other unidentifiable metal remnants.
4) Continued what was by then becoming an emotional experience, used the same "system" to pull the DS half of the bracket. The spindle came out with that. Then I blew air thru the shell and some more loose balls from the destroyed cage ejected like deershot, into the can I had thoughtfully arranged to receive the debris on the other side..

Tatt 1, BB 0, if you're keeping score.

OK now you know the story, I can get to the question (finally).. I was looking forward to seeing the inside "wall" of the frame's BB shell but, in past the threads there seems to be a smaller diameter "sleeve" looking thing that spans the inner width of the shell that's not threaded. Do I leave that be (is it part of the frame) or do I bash it out of there because it doesn't belong?
I had grand plans to apply vigorous cleaning energy to the inside of the BB shell, but this "reducer" tube is in the way?

And oh yeah, there's no markings related to the BB's size, on the spindle, cups, or any place I can find.
But I'll save the "finding a correct cartridge type square taper replacement BB" chapter for another post.

Thoughts on what that well-attached "tube" is doing inside my BB shell?

Many Thanks for your patient consideration,
Tatt
If the protective tube is not coming free with gentle tugs, it may be held by the screw that binds the cable guide under the bottom bracket shell. Just a thought. I wouldn't get destructive until you have the new BB in hand and know that you won't be using the old sleeve.
cale is offline  
Old 04-07-15, 06:23 PM
  #4  
Bill Kapaun
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,338

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1576 Post(s)
Liked 913 Times in 651 Posts
Originally Posted by tattman23 View Post
............And oh yeah, there's no markings related to the BB's size, on the spindle, cups, or any place I can find.
But I'll save the "finding a correct cartridge type square taper replacement BB" chapter for another post.

Thoughts on what that well-attached "tube" is doing inside my BB shell?

Many Thanks for your patient consideration,
Tatt
Sure there isn't a code on the spindle such as 3-P, 3-S etc?
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 04-07-15, 08:07 PM
  #5  
tattman23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 54

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 80's Raleigh Pursuit 12-speed "Sport-Touring Geometry" with fully functional QuickStand, thanks Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
Sure there isn't a code on the spindle such as 3-P, 3-S etc?
Your reply is making check that spindle AGAIN... but, yesterday I looked and cleaned... and cleaned some more and looked, and squinted a bit; alas found nothing. Prediction: I'll take the decrepit pieces to the LBS and first thing they'll do is point out to me those exact codes right in some obvious spot on the spindle.
Points taken as well, regarding the prospective destroyable "liner", the renegade bearing balls, and the moratorium on further destruction in the shell until the replacement BB can be test-fitted.

Maybe I'm naÔve (you wouldn't be the first to think so), but I was HOPing to measure the shell and take just the pieces and my measurements (rather than the whole bike) to the shop that will have the new BB. With no markings on any of the pieces though, and my open question about the innards of the shell, I might end up having to bite the bullet and take the thing in with me (at least it's light, I guess).
I'm still holding out too, for more feedback - you know the one, who will say "Yeah I had that and aint it the weirdest thing, and here's what I did, etc". A familiar BF tune I'm sure.
Thanks for speedy high-quality replies,
Tatt
tattman23 is offline  
Old 04-08-15, 10:05 AM
  #6  
DMF 
Elitist Troglodyte
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6,925

Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I'm confused on what bike it is on. It sounds like a new-style BB/crank, but on an OLD bike? What year is the bike? Are there markings on the other components that would let us make an educated guess as to what group is on it?
__________________
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

- Will Rogers
DMF is offline  
Old 04-13-15, 02:39 PM
  #7  
tattman23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 54

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 80's Raleigh Pursuit 12-speed "Sport-Touring Geometry" with fully functional QuickStand, thanks Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DMF View Post
I'm confused on what bike it is on. It sounds like a new-style BB/crank, but on an OLD bike? What year is the bike? Are there markings on the other components that would let us make an educated guess as to what group is on it?
It's an old no name bicycle. It's a case of me replacing "old school" (spindle and cups and bearings in cages) pieces with a UN-55 cartridge (or dying in the attempt lol). the old parts were used to determine that UN-55 is the right one, if only a cartridge with fit THROUGH the shell!
As to "what bike is it", Jah only knows and he aint tellin'. LOL, I don't think it has a "group" other than low-end shimano (IIRC, the RD I replaced was an Altus). I've had zero luck trying to find info on Columbia/alum-comp.
I really should look for a hosting site for pics (if that's the way to get pics posted) which would add some clarity to this discussion.
All that said... the "insert" inside the shell is too small diameter to fit the (otherwise correct) UN-55 cartridge through <eye-roll>.
On seeing the phone pics of it, one LBS said "never seen the like before" (figures my little learning project is not only too cheap to be bothering with, it's also a flippin' "one off").
I suppose I could replace like with like, foregoing the cartridge option, but where to find the "equivalent" loose parts?
I'm leery of trying to "twist out" the insert/sleeve due to very real possibility I'd jack up the BB shell threads (which is also the reason I stopped hitting on the insert with a hammer and punch, not to mention it didn't move a single millimeter).
So there's the "update" and I'm off to visit other LBS to see if they are also mystified by my phone pics.
Tatt
tattman23 is offline  
Old 04-13-15, 03:13 PM
  #8  
DMF 
Elitist Troglodyte
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6,925

Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
If the pics aren't too big you can upload them directly.

Any indication what the insert material is? Did you consider the suggestion that the insert is pinned in by something like the cable guide screw? (Or pin mught be painted over.)



Have you considered the cost/benefit analysis?
__________________
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

- Will Rogers
DMF is offline  
Old 04-13-15, 03:16 PM
  #9  
tattman23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 54

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 80's Raleigh Pursuit 12-speed "Sport-Touring Geometry" with fully functional QuickStand, thanks Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Oh yeah, Bill K was right there were the expected markings, on the spindle as he suggested. AND, the LBS pointed them out to me just as I guessed they would <eye-roll>...
tattman23 is offline  
Old 04-13-15, 03:48 PM
  #10  
tattman23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 54

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 80's Raleigh Pursuit 12-speed "Sport-Touring Geometry" with fully functional QuickStand, thanks Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DMF View Post
If the pics aren't too big you can upload them directly.
Any indication what the insert material is? Did you consider the suggestion that the insert is pinned in by something like the cable guide screw? (Or pin mught be painted over.)
Have you considered the cost/benefit analysis?
Reduced pics (luv me some Windows7), now we'll see about inserting a couple.
The insert appears a lot like steel, and there aint no cable guides unnerneath the shell.
Cost-benefit is not in the equation like it would be for a more worthy cause. As long as the cost is "cheap" and the benefit is "hey hun look what I did "all by myself for cheap", I'm good with it. The tools acquired along the way will doubtless see future use (although I doubt there are many more square taper cranks in my future hehe). But by the time it's the future, I'll have this "experience" lol. By the way, it was RIDING on the destroyed original BB that caused the ugliness on the perimeter of the shell (it was NOT me wailing on things with a hammer and punch, although I did do a little of that - Sucker didn't budge, so for the sake of the threads I stopped with the hammering.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
001.JPG (38.5 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg
003.JPG (40.9 KB, 24 views)
tattman23 is offline  
Old 04-13-15, 05:07 PM
  #11  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,207

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 148 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3246 Post(s)
Liked 2,650 Times in 1,541 Posts
Grab the sleeve witth some needle-nose pliers (or needle nose vise-grip, if you need to) and yank it out. You may find that twisting the pliers will cause the sleeve to fold up a bit and make it easier to pull.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-15-15, 03:21 PM
  #12  
tattman23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 54

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 80's Raleigh Pursuit 12-speed "Sport-Touring Geometry" with fully functional QuickStand, thanks Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Grab the sleeve witth some needle-nose pliers (or needle nose vise-grip, if you need to) and yank it out. You may find that twisting the pliers will cause the sleeve to fold up a bit and make it easier to pull.
^^^ I'm digging the brute force aspect of this suggestion; it's the element of danger I find intriguing.. (paranoid me, I'll be stopping every few yanks, to re-thread the UN-55 cup into the shell to confirm that the interior threads are still viable). Seems like the hammer/punch combo should have at least annoyed it a little bit, yet it stayed very put.
More and more it seems like destruction will prove more effective than removal.
Thanks! and, Stay tuned...
Tatt
tattman23 is offline  
Old 04-21-15, 08:59 AM
  #13  
tattman23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 54

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 80's Raleigh Pursuit 12-speed "Sport-Touring Geometry" with fully functional QuickStand, thanks Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The deed is done, the pic is just documenting a "milestone" along the way.
New UN-55 installed. Happy Tatt (yeah I have a pretty low threshold of satisfaction)...
Next up, (cheap) replacement pedals, financed with the cash I saved by not taking it to a shop.
Making the "Blue Meanie" heap ride-able again has earned me sufficient goodwill so I can buy rack/lights/bags upgrades, on MY bike. That's pretty decent cost-benefit.

Gratitude to BF for inspiration and for what I "didn't do" (didn't abandon hope, didn't get impatient and needlessly hire out the job).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
004 reduced.jpg (38.7 KB, 38 views)
tattman23 is offline  
Old 04-21-15, 09:39 AM
  #14  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,207

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 148 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3246 Post(s)
Liked 2,650 Times in 1,541 Posts
Originally Posted by tattman23 View Post
The deed is done, the pic is just documenting a "milestone" along the way.


Looks like a little "chase 'n' face" might be a good idea.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-21-15, 10:24 AM
  #15  
tattman23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 54

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 80's Raleigh Pursuit 12-speed "Sport-Touring Geometry" with fully functional QuickStand, thanks Raleigh

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Looks like a little "chase 'n' face" might be a good idea.
Well yeah, big tools big mess - but all ends well.
I was most fearful of rendering the threads unusable with so much pounding. During the surgery, the empty cartridge moved only in tiny increments, and I'm sure I looked very silly re-threading the new bottom bracket over and over as I went along, lol. My "wish" was that the BB would chase the threads sufficiently - maybe I just got lucky (Mercifully both sides threaded immediately and true when all said and done).
As for 'face', I bought my daughter a new bottle of glittery blue nail polish to replenish the one I "borrowed" (after getting the appropriate authorization of course) to hide the bare metal at the ends of the shell. I probably should care more than I do about the cosmetic aspects; one would have approached the whole enterprise differently on a 'cycle that wasn't a throwaway to begin with.
tattman23 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
nickw
Bicycle Mechanics
4
01-28-17 05:30 PM
corwin1968
Bicycle Mechanics
19
05-26-13 06:28 AM
dleccord
Bicycle Mechanics
15
10-03-11 04:43 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.