Trying to remove a standard MTB Shimano HG cassette. Probably been on there 20 years.

Using a chain whip and correct splined removal bolt. Thing just won't move, I think I might be on a verge of striping metal splines, though I am just using hand power. Any awesome tips before I admit defeat and take it to a LBS?

Just asking to be thorough, since it's apparently an older bike... Are you sure it's a cassette and not a freewheel? If it's a freewheel, the chain whip's unnecessary ...and counterproductive since you'd be trying to turn the freewheel tool and chain whip against one another.

Well the middle lock ring says LOCK so that was my quick conclusion.

How big a lever arm are you using? That ring should be up to 30 or 40Nm.

Apparently, not big enough. I have a big box end wrench on the removal bolt.

Middle?

The outer bearing ring on a freewheel also says "lock" so that's meaningless.

Here's the giveaway.

On a cassette, the lockring's flange is the outermost part sitting outside the smallest sprocket and holding it in. On a freewheel the remover spline is recessed, and the sprocket is the outermost part.

OR

Spin the wheel and hold the cassette so it's in coasting mode. A cassette lockring will stop with the cassette, but a freewheel inner body will turn with the hub.

Seriously frozen lockrings are fairly rare, so this is starting to smell like a freewheel, and you need to confirm before proceeding.

Thanks all, I'm thinking it may be a freewheel after all, but I'm done. In either case it's frozen solid and the splined removal bolt I'm using isn't up to the challenge. Unlike my Suntour removal bolts there is no way to lock it in place with a QR; apply any torque and it just wants to walk out.

The clarity was much appreciated.

Does the freehub/freewheel turn freely?

When you turn your tool counterclockwise, does the freehub turn (freehub/cassette)? A chainwhip is required to keep it from turning.
Or when you turn the tool counterclockwise, does it not turn (freewheel). No chainwhip is needed. Whole sprocket assembly screws off.

Pictures always help to make sure we're all on the right page.

From bad experiences with old style freewheels, I've gotten into the habit of always locking down my tool with the axle or quick release. Why isn't that possible?

For a freewheel, place the tool in a bench vise with splines facing up. Place the wheel on the tool fully engaging the spines of the tool. Turn the wheel counterclockwise. You might need someone to help keep the bench the vise is mounted on from moving.

+1

It is quite possible, and I have done it, to move a large heavy work bench. A jerking motion when turning the wheel helps.

Do you have a freewheel tool or a cassette tool? The splines are the same, but a freewheel tool has a hole for the end of the axle, so it can be held in place with nuts or the QR. You can use the FW tool for a cassette lockring, but not necessarily vice-versa. Lockrings are torqued to 30 lb-ft and are easily removed, but freewheels tighten while riding and need a bench vise like Looigi indicated.

If it genuinely is a freewheel, a cassette lockring tool wouldn't fit, not without removing the axle.

If the lockring is that tight, just put a length of pipe over the wrench to give you more leverage. I've very rarely had to resort to that, but when I have done it, it always works.

Shimano compatible-
Park FR-1 22.6mm diameter. For Free Wheel
Park FR-5 23.5mm diameter. For Cassette.
BOTH have a "hole in the middle".

To identify a Free Wheel or Cassette see-
Freewheel or Cassette?

We had one of those the other day. It took 2 of us, and a piece of pipe on both the chain whip, and the tool. We sat on the floor to fight it, and my mantra to the other guy was " don't get hurt". Our 4' pipe is named Bertha, and never loses the battle. And they CAN be that tight, especially if really cranked on years ago.

It's 22.6mm, so if it's a freewheel then it's a fir for a Park FR1.2. However, the one I have fits reasonably well, and I've used it to replace 10speed road cassettes. It's not Park, maybe the tolerances are off.

I guess I'll opt for one and use my vice. After sleeping on it, this might be something I'll need in the tool chest again.

Thanks,

The tool I have is stamped "SHIMANO TL-FW30 FREE WHEEL" and I bought it for a freewheel, but it works on the cassette. I've Googled these tools and see some with a pin in the middle, which you wouldn't be able to clamp on a freewheel.

They still take different sizes. Maybe it works on a cassette.... until you run into an extra tight lock ring and then you have a ruined tool AND lock ring.
The pin fits in a hollow axle for alignment.
Which model, with a pin, PROPERLY fits a Free Wheel?

You quote so that freewheel tool would be a sloppy fit in a cassette lock ring, but in my case it worked because the lockring wasn't excessively tight. I guess I was lucky. It seems the bicycle industry is famous for these weird "standards".

Before resorting to a cheater/breaker bar, try hitting the end of your large wrench with a mallet or hammer. Shock gets stuck fasteners off more easily than steady force.

First, be sure your splined tool actually fits snugly in the lockring. Applying big force to a mismatched tool can strip splines, and then you're in trouble.

+1, that's what I do with fixed cogs and their lock rings.

Can you post an image of the lockring so we can be sure we're talking about the right part and way to remove it?

Cheers

This is a cassette with a lock ring. It's just a threaded "cap".



Here is an equivalent Shimano freewheel. The splines are inside the body.

Nope, nope & nope, my original thinking was correct...it is a cassette with a lock ring. Perhaps early gen. Shimano, it is set down into the cassette similar to the way a freewheel looks. Local LBS struggled a little, which made me feel good, then brought out a three foot wrench welded to a spindled remove head, with chain whip, - BAM! I guess 20+ years will lock one of those suckers in pretty tight.

Again, thanks to all who contributed, and it feels good to say something positive about my LBS.

Shop Lock ring tool has a pin in the center to go in the hollow axle , so as to not have it easily pop off ,

while you apply Brute Force the Overtightened lock ring.