Cassette - What Do We Have Here?
05-15-17, 04:00 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 705
Bikes: 1974 Copper Raleigh International, 1975 Olive Green Raleigh Grand Prix, 1974 Raleigh Europa Custom
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Cassette - What Do We Have Here?
This is my brothers bike which I'll replace the cassette and chain.
I'm ordering online most likely so want to know what I need.
It's an 8 speed apart from that don't know. Are these all one type (shimano compatible?) or does sram do their own proprietary cassette?
I have a shimano tool and chain whip.
I'm ordering online most likely so want to know what I need.
It's an 8 speed apart from that don't know. Are these all one type (shimano compatible?) or does sram do their own proprietary cassette?
I have a shimano tool and chain whip.
05-15-17, 04:16 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: St. Petersburg, Fl
Posts: 935
Bikes: I'm a Flatbar Guy
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
That might be a freewheel instead of a cassette. Might want to make sure before you order one.
05-15-17, 04:22 PM
#4
The Infractionator
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,201
Bikes: Classic road bikes: 1986 Cannondale, 1978 Trek
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 875 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I see a cassette lockring. In which case, you need a cassette tool.
Judging by the heavy wear on the middle cogs, you also need a new chain, and possibly a new chainring, too.
Judging by the heavy wear on the middle cogs, you also need a new chain, and possibly a new chainring, too.
05-15-17, 04:31 PM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 705
Bikes: 1974 Copper Raleigh International, 1975 Olive Green Raleigh Grand Prix, 1974 Raleigh Europa Custom
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
05-15-17, 04:43 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: St. Petersburg, Fl
Posts: 935
Bikes: I'm a Flatbar Guy
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
CI think you're right, from looking at the third pic it does appear to be a lock ring for a cassette. Though my 2001 Giant Cypress DX had a 7 speed freewheel.
05-15-17, 04:57 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,975
Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Liked 739 Times
in
534 Posts
either SRAM or Shimano Cassettes will work fine.. they are interchangeable...
make sure the chain you get is 6-7-8 speed compatible. a KMC Z51 or Z72 will work fine, but you WILL need to correctly size it once you have the new parts... easiest way is to shift to the SMALL cog in the back, then make the chain short enough to put the derailleur tension arm to a position that is below horizontal by 15 or so degrees. If the old chain was so cut, it can be used as a guide by counting the number of links, then making the new chain the same count... not LENGTH.... COUNT.... the old chain has worn pins/bushings that will make it appear longer.
contrary to popular belief... Chains DO NOT STRETCH, they WEAR.
avoid getting a chain at a big box store... they are sometimes beyond "worn out" spec, directly from the package!
count the number of teeth on the cassette's big and little cogs, then order that range cassette... done!
make sure the chain you get is 6-7-8 speed compatible. a KMC Z51 or Z72 will work fine, but you WILL need to correctly size it once you have the new parts... easiest way is to shift to the SMALL cog in the back, then make the chain short enough to put the derailleur tension arm to a position that is below horizontal by 15 or so degrees. If the old chain was so cut, it can be used as a guide by counting the number of links, then making the new chain the same count... not LENGTH.... COUNT.... the old chain has worn pins/bushings that will make it appear longer.
contrary to popular belief... Chains DO NOT STRETCH, they WEAR.
avoid getting a chain at a big box store... they are sometimes beyond "worn out" spec, directly from the package!
count the number of teeth on the cassette's big and little cogs, then order that range cassette... done!
Last edited by maddog34; 05-15-17 at 05:02 PM.
05-15-17, 05:10 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 705
Bikes: 1974 Copper Raleigh International, 1975 Olive Green Raleigh Grand Prix, 1974 Raleigh Europa Custom
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Thanks!
05-15-17, 05:48 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 1,511
Bikes: '92 22" Cannondale M2000, '92 Cannondale R1000 Tandem, another modern Canndondale tandem, Two Holy Grail '86 Cannondale ST800s 27" (68.5cm) Touring bike w/Superbe Pro components and Phil Wood hubs. A bunch of other 27" ST frames & bikes.
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
either SRAM or Shimano Cassettes will work fine.. they are interchangeable...
make sure the chain you get is 6-7-8 speed compatible. a KMC Z51 or Z72 will work fine, but you WILL need to correctly size it once you have the new parts... easiest way is to shift to the SMALL cog in the back, then make the chain short enough to put the derailleur tension arm to a position that is below horizontal by 15 or so degrees. If the old chain was so cut, it can be used as a guide by counting the number of links, then making the new chain the same count... not LENGTH.... COUNT.... the old chain has worn pins/bushings that will make it appear longer.
contrary to popular belief... Chains DO NOT STRETCH, they WEAR.
avoid getting a chain at a big box store... they are sometimes beyond "worn out" spec, directly from the package!
count the number of teeth on the cassette's big and little cogs, then order that range cassette... done!
make sure the chain you get is 6-7-8 speed compatible. a KMC Z51 or Z72 will work fine, but you WILL need to correctly size it once you have the new parts... easiest way is to shift to the SMALL cog in the back, then make the chain short enough to put the derailleur tension arm to a position that is below horizontal by 15 or so degrees. If the old chain was so cut, it can be used as a guide by counting the number of links, then making the new chain the same count... not LENGTH.... COUNT.... the old chain has worn pins/bushings that will make it appear longer.
contrary to popular belief... Chains DO NOT STRETCH, they WEAR.
avoid getting a chain at a big box store... they are sometimes beyond "worn out" spec, directly from the package!
count the number of teeth on the cassette's big and little cogs, then order that range cassette... done!
In fact anyone who knows anything about working on a bike knows how to measure chain wear with a ruler. If you truly live in a reality where you think chains don't stretch, and don't know how to quantify the stretch/wear you probably shouldn't be in an Internet forum giving advice on bike mechanics!
05-15-17, 06:26 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,673
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked 1,061 Times
in
745 Posts
Chains absolutely stretch. Measure the new chain say to 100 links and then measure the chain when you take it off to the same pin at 100 links. You'll measureably see the stretch.
In fact anyone who knows anything about working on a bike knows how to measure chain wear with a ruler. If you truly live in a reality where you think chains don't stretch, and don't know how to quantify the stretch/wear you probably shouldn't be in an Internet forum giving advice on bike mechanics!
In fact anyone who knows anything about working on a bike knows how to measure chain wear with a ruler. If you truly live in a reality where you think chains don't stretch, and don't know how to quantify the stretch/wear you probably shouldn't be in an Internet forum giving advice on bike mechanics!
05-15-17, 06:32 PM
#11
rebmeM roineS
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Metro Indy, IN
Posts: 16,216
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 347 Times
in
226 Posts
Those are some sharp pointy teeth on the worn out cogs! Steel chain ring?
__________________
Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
05-15-17, 06:34 PM
#12
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,105 Times
in
1,369 Posts
Don't race to be the biggest knowitall.
@Vintage Raleigh the nicer cassettes and chains have a chrome finish. Match the number of teeth on the big cog. Consider what Alex said about checking the chain ring.
@Vintage Raleigh the nicer cassettes and chains have a chrome finish. Match the number of teeth on the big cog. Consider what Alex said about checking the chain ring.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
05-15-17, 08:46 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
05-15-17, 09:28 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,975
Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Liked 739 Times
in
534 Posts
Technically they don't stretch, they elongate due to the pins and such wearing down creating more play in each link. Rubber bands stretch, metal chains elongate through wear. Call it stretch if you want, we all understand what that means here but don't go blasting other posters for using the correct term.
ANNND, if one wants to get super-technical.... the plates will stretch ever so slightly, while under HEAVY load... then they resume their previous length... but a seriously accurate "ruler' would be needed, and a fast one, too! it's a molecular metallurgy thing... crystaline bonding shear stuff.
what we silly bike guys deal with is pin wear, and roller wear, and sprocket wear.
05-16-17, 07:07 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 256
Bikes: 74 Romic, 83 Basso, Lotto, 88 Condor, Prestige MTB, 12 Soma, Groove
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
technically they don't stretch, they elongate due to the pins and such wearing down creating more play in each link. Rubber bands stretch, metal chains elongate through wear. Call it stretch if you want, we all understand what that means here but don't go blasting other posters for using the correct term.
Last edited by skoda2; 05-16-17 at 07:10 AM.
05-16-17, 07:38 AM
#18
Generally bewildered
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 3,037
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1152 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
251 Posts
)[2]Given the state of the bike, and the fact that it's been ridden a lot without lubricating the chain, I'd say any performance optimization (e.g. SRAM vs other compatible brands) is probably not worth it. Optimize for cost. You may wish to help your bro by showing him how to clean and lube the chain - I could be wrong but it looks like its been ridden w/o lube for a while. Like 15 years!
[3]Before you spend the money, check the front chain ring. If it's worn, you may wish to find a cheap replacement on ebay. But you do need a new cassette and chain as you've pointed out. And as skoda2 has pointed out, you need new derailler guide and idler wheels.
If this is a favorite bike, or it has features you like (it looks bomb-proof - that double top tube with the lock is kind of cool) this may be worth it. Don't know the used bike sitatuation in Oz, but you may wish to price used bikes and compare to your repair cost.
Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 05-16-17 at 08:17 AM.
05-16-17, 08:57 AM
#19
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,363
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
I agree on the chain but the crank looks like it has a steel ring. It's probably okay. If it does need replacing, Vintage Raleigh will need a new crank as well. The chainring is swaged to the crank arm.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
05-16-17, 11:33 AM
#20
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
+1. The whole "chains don't stretch" thing has gotten so tedious. Of course the metal doesn't stretch, but who cares, we all know what the person meant...
05-16-17, 04:12 PM
#21
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 705
Bikes: 1974 Copper Raleigh International, 1975 Olive Green Raleigh Grand Prix, 1974 Raleigh Europa Custom
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Thanks again everyone. This is his daily driver. I've suggested a more robust set up with a heavier chain and sturmey archer hub, but respoke, cold set, new changers, hub, etc = vitually new bike cost wise. I might put together a frankenbike when the grasshopper is ready.
05-16-17, 05:29 PM
#22
The Infractionator
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,201
Bikes: Classic road bikes: 1986 Cannondale, 1978 Trek
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 875 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
FWIW, 9-speed freewheels DO exist, but I doubt that they are worth considering.
05-16-17, 05:42 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18377 Post(s)
Liked 4,512 Times
in
3,354 Posts
I'd just get something cheap.
That is a pretty large sprocket in the rear, and the 11T or 12T doesn't appear to have gotten much use, so you could go one size larger if you wish.
Just suggest to to your brother to replace the chain in a little less than 15 years next time.
I can't tell the wear on the chainring. Sometimes one has to replace the whole crankset. The worst wear will be perpendicular to the cranks (the part covered by the chain/chain guard in the photos.
That is a pretty large sprocket in the rear, and the 11T or 12T doesn't appear to have gotten much use, so you could go one size larger if you wish.
Just suggest to to your brother to replace the chain in a little less than 15 years next time.
I can't tell the wear on the chainring. Sometimes one has to replace the whole crankset. The worst wear will be perpendicular to the cranks (the part covered by the chain/chain guard in the photos.
05-16-17, 10:27 PM
#24
Senior Member
Cassette-$20, chain-$8, pulley wheels $8. Total- $36 + some labor and a good cleaning? A small expense to keep the bike on the road.
A lot of over thinking here.
A lot of over thinking here.
