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What tool to remove this bottom bracket?

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What tool to remove this bottom bracket?

Old 12-09-17, 04:17 PM
  #1  
rgvg
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What tool to remove this bottom bracket?

This is on a bike from 1985/6. Also, would anyone know if this is a cartridge type bb or not?

Thanks
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Old 12-09-17, 04:51 PM
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What you have is a common cup and cone type of BB with "rubber" (or plastic) seals. For the shown cup a hook spanner/wrench is the typical tool. I believe there's a second slot hidden by the axle. Park use to make a series of spanners (SP-?) that were color coded by their end fittings. IIRC the yellow one was the tool I'd use. These cups weren't the best to grab with a tool though. Andy
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Old 12-09-17, 05:13 PM
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Hammer and a Punch unless you get a special VAR made pliers, there is another notch on the other side y/n?
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Old 12-09-17, 07:28 PM
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Yes, there is another notch on the other side. So hammer and punch? Also, incidentally, for my edification, can anyone tell me when cartridge bbs were introduced and became common?
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Old 12-09-17, 07:56 PM
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Park Tools HCW-5 gets the threaded locknuts on/off
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Old 12-09-17, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rgvg View Post
Also, incidentally, for my edification, can anyone tell me when cartridge bbs were introduced and became common?
Sheldon Brown's web site states that Phil Wood introduced the first cartridge bottom bracket in 1971 but they were very expensive and a rarity for quite a while. Cartridge bottom brackets weren't at all common until the early 1990's and have dominated the market since then. My 1992 Trek 1420 came with a cup-and-cone bottom bracket but I replaced it with a Shimano BB-UN71 in late 1992 so they were certainly available by then.

Since then the "standard" English and Italian cartridge threaded units installed inside the frame's bottom bracket shell have been joined by a bewildering variety of press-in and external bearing types of various proprietary designs so that the term "standard" is nearly meaningless now.
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Old 12-09-17, 08:34 PM
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Sugino sealed bearing/cartridge BB's were around in the mid 80's. Cannondale touring bikes used them. They also had lockrings on both sides so you could adjust the chain line somewhat.
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Old 12-09-17, 09:02 PM
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There are two possible designs which could be called "cartridge". There's the current tapered square (or ISIS or Octalink) BBs with some form of bearings but with a housing containing all but the second threaded retaining "cup". The Shimano UN series is a popular example. The other possibility is any BB that uses bearings of a cartridge design (often being simple radial contact ones, often poorly called "sealed" bearings). This might also be contained in a housing like the first example or might be made of separate parts. The current BB30, PFBB30 et all are examples.


This second design has been around for many decades, long before Phil introduced theirs. Andy
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Old 12-09-17, 09:08 PM
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With the condition that BB is probably in you might not have to worry about the proper tool. I definitely would advise against buying the "right" one.
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Old 12-09-17, 10:15 PM
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i'd use a really big pair of needle nose pliers on that BB.... not many people have those.
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Old 12-09-17, 11:28 PM
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Hammer and punch then, or in my case hammer and screwdriver. Just tapped lightly and it turned. Thanks!
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Old 12-10-17, 08:55 AM
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Judging by the rusty, dirty appearance of that bottom bracket and the fact it's a "nutted" spindle, it's a low quality bottom bracket to begin with and now in very poor condition. I recommend removing and discarding it and replacing it with a suitable cartridge like a Shimano BB-UN54 or BB-UN55 in the right spindle length.

Apparently you have been able to remove the non-drive side lockring and adjustable cup. You will have to remove the drive-side fixed cup and that's almost always a lot tighter and requires a different special tool unless you can improvise. It might be worth the few dollars to have an LBS remove it. Remember the drive side is LEFT-hand threaded.
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Old 12-10-17, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Judging by the rusty, dirty appearance of that bottom bracket and the fact it's a "nutted" spindle, it's a low quality bottom bracket to begin with and now in very poor condition. I recommend removing and discarding it and replacing it with a suitable cartridge like a Shimano BB-UN54 or BB-UN55 in the right spindle length.

Apparently you have been able to remove the non-drive side lockring and adjustable cup. You will have to remove the drive-side fixed cup and that's almost always a lot tighter and requires a different special tool unless you can improvise. It might be worth the few dollars to have an LBS remove it. Remember the drive side is LEFT-hand threaded.
"low quality" BB's never have seals in the cups.

and a good quality BB of the type pictured will outlast any "cartridge bearing" BB i've ever seen.... if properly maintained.

the OP should remove, clean, inspect, and reuse that high end BB if at all possible.

"Cartridge" type BB's place the bearings further inboard on the spindle, increasing bearing loads.... and you must replace the entire unit when a bearing goes bad(and they DO GO BAD!).... sure sound like a cool idea though, eh?

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Old 12-10-17, 12:16 PM
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Sorry yes, it looks rusty and dirty. I just picked up this bike from craigslist a couple of days ago and haven't cleaned it. I wasn't going to mess around with it too much just yet but a response I got on it made me want to look at the rust issue a bit closer. The rusting is really under the downtube and also a little under the top tube. Maybe it got wet too often or was stored where it would get wet. Since it rains a lot here, that's not far fetched. There's enough rust on the tubes to make me want to attempt repair though I haven't got any experience there. Should be educational.

The bb itself though has cleaned up okay. It's still smooth to touch and no pitting or other deformity. Didn't remove the fixed side, but it looks fine from the other side. It is from a 1985/6 Nishiki International. It's a touring type, maybe not their top end but definitely not bottom end. The cranks are Shimano Biopace touring triple FC-B124. Not sure what the bb is but it's probably related to that.

I see a little rusting inside the bb shell, but it doesn't look too bad.
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Old 12-10-17, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog34 View Post
"low quality" BB's never have seals in the cups.
Maybe not but "high quality" bottom brackets rarely have nutted spindles either.
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Old 12-10-17, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Maybe not but "high quality" bottom brackets rarely have nutted spindles either.
shaft may have been previously replaced...
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Old 12-11-17, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Maybe not but "high quality" bottom brackets rarely have nutted spindles either.
With the notable exception of the Campagnolo Super Record Titanium bottom bracket. Of course they had a tendency to break in half.
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Old 12-11-17, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
With the notable exception of the Campagnolo Super Record Titanium bottom bracket. Of course they had a tendency to break in half.
Picky, picky, picky....
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Old 12-11-17, 07:12 PM
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Looks like you got it apart. A punch an hammer can work, but hook spanners are easier to use:

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Old 12-11-17, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rgvg View Post
Sorry yes, it looks rusty and dirty. I just picked up this bike from craigslist a couple of days ago and haven't cleaned it. I wasn't going to mess around with it too much just yet but a response I got on it made me want to look at the rust issue a bit closer. The rusting is really under the downtube and also a little under the top tube. Maybe it got wet too often or was stored where it would get wet. Since it rains a lot here, that's not far fetched. There's enough rust on the tubes to make me want to attempt repair though I haven't got any experience there. Should be educational.

The bb itself though has cleaned up okay. It's still smooth to touch and no pitting or other deformity. Didn't remove the fixed side, but it looks fine from the other side. It is from a 1985/6 Nishiki International. It's a touring type, maybe not their top end but definitely not bottom end. The cranks are Shimano Biopace touring triple FC-B124. Not sure what the bb is but it's probably related to that.

I see a little rusting inside the bb shell, but it doesn't look too bad.
I would look twice at that BB spindle. Unless it's a trick of lighting, I see a couple pitted sections along the ball track on the right side.
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Old 12-17-17, 07:31 PM
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Hmmm... you could be right. I am planning to take the wheels to a coop to see what they can recommend about it and I will bring the spindle as well and see what they say. Can't do it till after the holidays though as time is a bit tight right now. Thanks
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Old 12-17-17, 07:51 PM
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While you've got it apart, measure the spindle and/or look for size markings -- often a number and letter(s) like "3S" or "3NN". If you're lucky, it's one of the remaining available sizes, or close enough. For about ten bucks, you can order a replacement and have things put back together before your LBS would have a chance to take a look at it.

If you measure the spindle, there are a few measurements you'll need:
* Overall length, not counting the threaded studs.
* Length of each side independently, from the lip of the bearing race to the end. Again, not counting the threaded studs.
* Length of the center section between bearing races.

So, for example, a 3S spindle is 124.5 mm overall and slightly asymmetric, 35/52/37.5 (left/center/right).
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