'sup wrenchsperts

I'm restoring a Marin Palisades Trail from 1992 and just finished stripping it right down today. But I'm stuck at the bottom bracket because it's the first time I've seen one like it and I don't know what tool I need to remove it.

I'm hoping y'all can tell me. And shall I expect to see an axle, cones and bearings or a cartridge once I get in?

Thanks in advance

[edit] BTW I've got the crank bolt back in there so I don't lose it in case you're wondering why it looks funny

You (or someone) has already removed the locking. To remove the cup, the proper tool would be a pin spanner like the Park Tool SPA-1. You can improvise, though. You just need something that'll fit in the holes so you can turn the cup counter-clockwise. I've used needlenose pliers in a pinch. Open 'em up, put the tips in two different holes on the cup, and turn. It might not be so easy with all that corrosion, though.

True. But I'd suggest you don't get carried away with improvisation. You might find a snap ring plier or an angle grinder flange wrench that will fit the holes. But you don't want to mangle them by hitting them with a punch or anything like that.

Id suggest you probably will not re use it, since the current shimano cartridge BB are so cheap..

those Park type pin spanners are cheap, but the fixed cup wrench for the other side is much less so,

Consider letting the bike shop remove that rusty one, so you won't be buying tools you use once.

then after it comes back from the powder coat job, get the installation tool for the new stuff,?





....

I doubt you'd get pin spanners to apply enough torque. I'd go with vise grips on the exposed threads or welding a bar to the surface.

Whoa. Going straight to the nuclear option!

Might want to try diplomacy first.

The improvised bolt-and-washer fixed up tool is cheap and works well. (It's shown and described about two-thirds of the way down this Sheldon Brown 'Tool Tips' page on bottom bracket cups.) Pinching the flats of the cup in a good, well-mounted bench vise and turning the frame is another approach.

...but if the fixed cup is in similar shape to the picture above, it could be a @#$%& to remove no matter what tool you're using. Set aside some time to do battle with that one.

AND BE AWARE THAT THE FIXED UP IS REVERSE-THREADED. It'll be even harder to turn if you're turning the wrong way. ;-)

Even with the tool concern aside, you might want to keep the shop's phone number handy if you need an assist. This one looks like it could be tough.

Good Luck ..

I have a VAR pin tool, from my days in the bike biz. It is a sturdy tool but I would not risk putting much force into it on that adjustable cup. I'd use PB Blaster and tap on it over the course of a few days. If a pin tool does not budge it (a likely prospect) I'd go the big vice-grips route suggested by redlude, above. Or take it to a bike shop.

That cup shouldn't be tight once the lockring has been removed, in fact you probably could turn it with your fingers. But this one is rusted, better to apply some penetrating oil and wait at least overnight. You can then use a brass punch and a hammer to tap it back and forth until it breaks free. It won't damage the cup, but you will probably have to replace it anyway.

I second the recommendation to have a bike shop do it. A wimpy pin spanner is not going to budge that rusty cup and a proper tool may cost more than the shop will charge. I do have to say that the last time I encountered a bottom bracket that looked like that, I had to scrap the frame. The time before that, I spent close to 10 hours with heat, penetrant oil, drills, grinding tools, and hacksaw blades to remove the cups. I really hope that you have better luck. Let us know how it goes.

This type of thinking is not en vogue, Ghrumpy.

I look at that Park tool, SPA-1, and I already feel the pain and see the blood spatter. I've never used a tool like that without hurting myself. Looks like the Park HCW-4 might work. Sugino had one that's worked for me. Now the picture shows above the text. WUWT?

edit: I've removed some adjustable cups from some crappy, grungy frames, but have never tried one that was really stuck. Spanners like the Sugino and Park HCW-4 aren't intended, I don't think, to be used with a lot of torque.

Good info

I will second that, those kind of pin spanners have pins that are replaceable and are threaded into place like a bolt. Have seen them break and snap from stubborn bottom bracket cups.

Thanks for your replies everyone. I'm going to have a crack at removing this sucker myself, having managed everything so far. Whoever built this bike packed the threads with grease/threadlock enough that so far the rust hasn't travelled so far in that I couldn't remove anything without wd40, heat and bloody determination.

I'm going to start on it today unless the heavens open again. Will report back as requested. Going to go in heavy with the wd40 and gently with improvised tools from existing stock (needle nose pliers to start).

If unscrewing it doesn't happen... you could hacksaw or sawzall the exposed cup, then remove the spindle, then sawzall the cup parallel to the spindle. Once you're through to the bottom bracket shell you might be able to curl the cup in on itself. Not quite the nuclear option; more like a protracted war of attrition.

Sometimes removing the other/fixed cup first is easier and offers better access to the adjustable cup. I also agree that corrosion is the likely cause of this cup's not turning easily with the simplest of tools, a nail and lever placed between the nail and axle. Good luck taking better care in the future. Andy

So the adjustable cup came off pretty easily. Drenched it in wd40 a couple of times over a couple of days, then gently tapped it round with a screwdriver poked into one of the holes.

The other side is a bit more of an issue but as soon as I find some sprung washers, I've got the bolt & nut ready to make my removal tool.

You should have seen the state of it inside....

Bravo.

Given the corrosion, you probably could use lockwashers, and a torque wrench to fix the nut, to get it off. Point is, you aren't constrained by non-destructive removal techniques.

So is the frame worth fixing?

Thanks! It depends on your definition of worth, but to me, definitely. As it stands, there's only surface rust wrong with it. All the components either work or will work with new grease & bearings/ whatever. I just saw it at the tip and couldn't bear to think of a great bike such as this ending its life in a skip because no-one cared enough to fix it up.

It's going to be a keeper assuming it passes the comfort/ fun test. If not, I'm still having fun regardless!

There's the spirit. Let nothing be wasted. I found this thread about another Marin Palisades: Hello and can you help me
And also, this pic of a 1992 (below). Should look great when you're done. Good luck!

Thanks Boz! Actually, I think I did my research wrong, or there were 2 versions of this bike in 92. I think mine is the one shown in the 91/92 catalogue in the grey and yellow. You can't really tell from the pics but only the fork, stem and bars have a glossy paint finish, the frame has a textured matt finish which I haven't seen on a bike before.