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Broken spokes...

Old 11-20-23, 09:22 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53
My last 2 builds I didn't use any gauges. One Co-op is still playing hospital. Pfffft
My fork is always the stand anyway. I use a piece of black tape for the round and just hold a piece of plastic for the side.
Did the flipflop for centering.
For finish tension I use my thumb and fingers to squeeze parallel spokes, same as what the tool does. Too loose is obvious. When too tight they only squeeze a mm and get hard to turn the nipple. Each spoke bending about 2 mm is about right, for mine anyway.
After a year it likely needs tightening when the holes settle in.

So is the OP doing the same thing over and over and expecting a magic diff result, or getting 2.3/ 2.0 spokes?? LOL.
the short answer is no... but was consulting here for more information... obviously, you need to be condescending to me for my lack of experience with spokes / wheels...
thanks
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Old 11-22-23, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by e0richt
the short answer is no... but was consulting here for more information... obviously, you need to be condescending to me for my lack of experience with spokes / wheels...
thanks
That's the problem with the mechanics forum. Someone comes in asking a simple question and people immediate pile on and start bickering.

You're breaking spokes because your current wheel isn't up to the task of handling your weight. That could be due to the budget spoke and rim choice by the manufacturer, or it could be due to poor wheel building (these are all automatic machines built, not human built). The first thing for you to do is to retention the spokes yourself using the current existing spokes. Do that before you start replacing stuff. I suggest you read the below, close Bike Forums and call it a day. I wouldn't bother paying a shop to work on the wheel for you. It's a simple job that you can learn in no time.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
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Old 11-22-23, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Yan
The first thing for you to do is to re-tension the spokes yourself using the current existing spokes. Do that before you start replacing stuff. I suggest you read the below, close Bike Forums and call it a day. I wouldn't bother paying a shop to work on the wheel for you. It's a simple job that you can learn in no time.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
I second this advice. Another good (and affordable) source of information which I've used for several years is Roger Musson's Wheelbuilding Book.
I sort of got "arm-twisted" into starting to build my own wheels (story, briefly, HERE), but have never regretted it.
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Old 11-23-23, 06:17 AM
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I go by the "two spoke rule". Anyone can break a spoke. You fix it and continue. Anyone can break another spoke. You fix that one as well. After that, you buy a new wheel.
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Old 11-23-23, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottCommutes
I go by the "two spoke rule". Anyone can break a spoke. You fix it and continue. Anyone can break another spoke. You fix that one as well. After that, you buy a new wheel.
Or you look for the cause instead of treating the wheel like a magical black box.
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Old 11-23-23, 01:11 PM
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To me more clear, anyone can break a spoke even if there is no problem. You might even break another, according to my rule. Stuff happens. However, when you snap the third, the wheel is in need of more attention than just a new spoke.
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Old 11-24-23, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottCommutes
I go by the "two spoke rule". Anyone can break a spoke. You fix it and continue. Anyone can break another spoke. You fix that one as well. After that, you buy a new wheel.
No. Whether it's one spoke or a couple, you look for the root cause which is 90% of the time going to be uneven spoke tension. After the first one, it's a clear sign that the wheel needs professional attention, not replacement.
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Old 11-24-23, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese
No. Whether it's one spoke or a couple, you look for the root cause, which is 90% of the time going to be uneven spoke tension. After the first one, it's a clear sign that the wheel needs professional attention, not replacement.
Uneven spoke tension, or (more uncommonly on newer bikes) insufficient spoke tension, or both. That's assuming no obvious previous damage from, e.g., potholes, derailleur running into spokes, etc.
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Old 11-24-23, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese
No. Whether it's one spoke or a couple, you look for the root cause which is 90% of the time going to be uneven spoke tension. After the first one, it's a clear sign that the wheel needs professional attention, not replacement.
Tension is not the only tool in the toolbox. It’s a poorly defined tool anyway. No one ever says how much tension. If tension is the only answer, then define a quantity of tension that is proper. You can’t (nor can I) because there are too many factors to consider. Spoke diameter changes tension levels. Tire inflation changes tension level. Load changes tension levels. The tension on e0richt’ s wheel could be run up to the point where the rim is cracking and it may not be high enough nor even enough. Consider what e0richt said in an earlier post:

Originally Posted by e0richt
I also had a Trek 7100 multitrack that had the same problem and basically, the shop told me that the style of bike was the problem (and of course I am a clydesdale).
supposedly, because of the flat bar, I put more stress on the back wheel.
e0richt did seek professional attention and they gave him an answer that I can’t properly say the way in which it is wrong. Let’s just say that it something that falls out of the northbound end of a southbound horse. e0richt needs better spokes, not just more tension.
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Old 11-24-23, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese
No. Whether it's one spoke or a couple, you look for the root cause which is 90% of the time going to be uneven spoke tension. After the first one, it's a clear sign that the wheel needs professional attention, not replacement.
I have to ask... what does "professional attention" mean exactly? ....
I like to think I can learn what I need to, in order to give "professional attention" to a wheel...

my local shop does have a professional mechanic but after a period of time, I have determined they are not skilled with wheels...
hopefully, the information I have received here in other responses has the information I would need to give the wheel professional attention.

I have gotten the DT swiss spokes and a couple of tools (nipple driver, tension meter)... so the next step was to retension the wheels and try it out.
I haven't broken a spoke at this point but I expect it will happen and then I will break the wheel down and relace it using the new double butted spokes.

I would have gone directly to rebuilding the wheel but there were some other time drains that I needed to handle and I am in a mood to experiment a bit.
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Old 11-24-23, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by e0richt
I have to ask... what does "professional attention" mean exactly? ....
I like to think I can learn what I need to, in order to give "professional attention" to a wheel...

my local shop does have a professional mechanic but after a period of time, I have determined they are not skilled with wheels...
hopefully, the information I have received here in other responses has the information I would need to give the wheel professional attention.
My experience over many, many years is that while a local bike shop mechanic might be paid to be a mechanic, that doesn’t necessarily make them “professional”. Your experience is relatively typical when it comes to wheels. Many “professional” mechanics may know how to adjust the true of a wheel but that’s the limit of their skill and knowledge. Wheel building is beyond most mechanics knowledge and wheel dynamics is beyond even many who know how to build wheels. “Tension” is over used and over blown as a solution to your situation (as well as mine). With equal tension and build quality, a stronger spoke makes for a stronger wheel.

I have gotten the DT swiss spokes and a couple of tools (nipple driver, tension meter)... so the next step was to retension the wheels and try it out.
I haven't broken a spoke at this point but I expect it will happen and then I will break the wheel down and relace it using the new double butted spokes.

I would have gone directly to rebuilding the wheel but there were some other time drains that I needed to handle and I am in a mood to experiment a bit.
​​​​​​​Good luck.
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Old 11-24-23, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
My experience over many, many years is that while a local bike shop mechanic might be paid to be a mechanic, that doesn’t necessarily make them “professional”. Your experience is relatively typical when it comes to wheels. Many “professional” mechanics may know how to adjust the true of a wheel but that’s the limit of their skill and knowledge. Wheel building is beyond most mechanics knowledge and wheel dynamics is beyond even many who know how to build wheels. “Tension” is over used and over blown as a solution to your situation (as well as mine). With equal tension and build quality, a stronger spoke makes for a stronger wheel.



Good luck.
just wanted to thank you for the information and resources (also the encouragement in learning how to rebuild a wheel... )
im sure it didn't come through before but wanted to make it explicit...

​​​​​​​Rich
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Old 11-24-23, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by e0richt
just wanted to thank you for the information and resources (also the encouragement in learning how to rebuild a wheel... )
im sure it didn't come through before but wanted to make it explicit...

Rich
​​​​​​​
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