choddo: If I were to ride off road and need really low pressure were a chafed or pinched flat tube would be a problem, I might consider the expense and extra hassle of tubeless necessary. I prefer my Psycho Rims and my Pick-Up tires that aren't tubeless ready.

What did the liners do to ride quality and thus rolling resistance?

I haven’t heard of those. Where does one find them?

With all due respect, it’s hard to say what you prefer out of an option you’ve tried and one you haven’t, I’d have thought? I personally find the limited extra hassle at home outweighs the considerable extra hassle of dealing with flats out on the road. But if those tyres avoid the latter then great.

TL are more expensive though, for sure, by about 20%

These look interesting. After 9 months flat free, I got three flats on one ride. Little tiny needle like metal pieces. Probably the remnants of a car steel belted radial.

This is the reason I always put a bomb in my suitcase when flying. The probability of their being two separate, unrelated bombs on an airplane is vanishingly small.

If only someone would invent orange-colored tubeless tire tire sealant.

choddo: 20% of what do you mean. I would need different tires, spokes and rims in addition to the special rim tape, valves and sealant. Tubeless wont clog holes from glass or steel wires from tractor trailer retreads. If it did, I would just use slime which is allot cheaper

The Pick-Up is rated for a cargo bike at 30 mph - it's a moped tyre and will not roll as well as a bicycle tyre with half the number of plies.

20% more expensive tyres. The sealant is dirt cheap compared to tubes really.
Yeah rims and valves. All the wheels I’ve bought for the last 4-5 years have been TL so didn’t really consider that.
it will clog just about anything reasonable and when it doesn’t a plug can fill the hole in 99% of cases.

All I know is I have tried both, and there’s no contest and I spend more time trying to explain this to people online than I do standing at the side of the road.

Your local bike shop should have them. If they're out of your size, they can be ordered from Q, JBI, or their bike distributor easily enough.

https://orangeseal.com/

choddo: I have followed the tubeless posts on bicycle forums with some internist. The dirt cheap sealant as you put it adds a new set of problems to a simple machine. Clogged up valves and sometimes none functional bicycle pumps due to sealant getting in them. Dried up sealant, so it no longer plugs the holes. What happens when you get a hole that the sealant or even a plug can't clog. if you carried a tube and a tire boot in case of an emergency, could you clean out items that might cause a tube puncture when you are far enough from help it becomes a problem.

I have robust tires and carry a spare tube, tire boot and a patch kit. If I were to have a flat I no it is always going to be repairable. If someone would invent tubeless for bicycles that didn't need sealant. I might consider it. For now I will stick with the devil I know. I have for over four decades.

I've been using sealant for the last three years on my road/gravel bike, my wife's ebike, her road bike, and much longer on my mountain bike.

I am not sure I have had any punctures on any of these, but probability suggests there have probably been a few that nobody noticed. We use Orange Seal endurance and top it off about every 4 months. Sometimes I have had to pick a little bit of sealant out of a valve when I am topping it off.

Overall, it is FAR less work*. Otherwise, I would not bother.


* Full disclosure: setting them up can be a PITA.

I once bought an old house, and then discovered that it had been heavily damaged in a tornado in 1930. "Great!", I said, "this house is pre-disastered! What are the odds of it getting hit by TWO tornadoes?"

I tried this logic with respect to wildfires and my house with AAA.

They didn't go for it.

I've never had a valve core clog so badly that it was unusable; even if that did happen, I can buy a ten-pack of cores for about $8 on Amazon and can replace one in about 30 seconds. I've never experienced (nor heard of) sealant causing problems for bike pumps.

Sealant levels do have to be checked and occasionally 'topped up." That is well-known.

If the sealant doesn't plug the hole, most often a plug (which can be inserted in about five seconds) will do the trick...I might then have to put in a little air to get the tire up to pressure. It's still MUCH faster and easier than dealing with a punctured tube. If for some reason a plug won't work, then I just insert a tube -- just like I would if I were still using them every day.

I carry the same things even when I am riding on tubeless tires -- and I, too, know that any problem is repairable in the field. The difference is that I (and other tubeless users) don't have to fix as many punctures in the field.
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That's a perfectly valid decision, but it doesn't mean that you should confuse your ignorance with facts. The so-called 'problems' you've identified with tubeless are imaginary.
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note these will help make your ride lifeless.... they can be as thick as the tire and are heavy

I did fact check the info and the problems that can happen with tubeless are well known. You are acting ignorant because you have not had problems yet. The facts are that People with tubeless are finding that they need additional tools and equipment to be prepared for the problems that tubeless creates.

Tubeless has been a topic here for 20 years or so. Over those years, the proportion of posters who tried tubeless and were dissatisfied, including those who ride upwards of 10,000 miles a year or more, seems to have been about 1%. The vast majority have been very happy with tubeless, with most saying that they wouldn't go back.

All my bikes are old enough to have come stock with wheels with tubes, and those wheels are still in good condition, so I'll stick with tubed tires. I recognize the advantages of tubeless, but I'm both lazy and frugal enough to choose to put up with fixing the occasional flat out on the road versus going to the trouble and expense of switching.

And, of course, the increased use of wider tires at lower pressure (the bike I ride most often has 38-mm-wide tires, which I maintain at around 50 psi) has reduced the incidence of flatting for me and many others, regardless of whether the tires are tubed or tubeless.

Sure, like any new or different technology, tubeless does require a few additional tools and tricks -- though nothing too expensive or challenging. (PS: capitalizing a random word in the middle of a sentence is weird.)

Nonsense. I found this embedded in my tire after a ride this year. PSI was exactly where I had set it before leaving home:



I've also found machine screws and wires (from auto tires) embedded deeply into my tires, with no air loss. One screw was so deeply embedded that it damaged my rim tape, which had to be replaced -- again, no air loss.

I've seen this claim elsewhere on bf from the tubeless-ignorant crowd, who don't seem to realize that, if the sealant and plug don't work, then fixing a flat is EXACTLY the same as in a tubed setup. You simply insert a tube, inflate it, and resume your ride. Although that's relatively rare, since sealant usually works, and -- when it doesn't -- plugs are pretty effective and quick. (And why would tubeless make it more difficult to "clean out items that might cause a tube puncture"? That's a bizarre claim.)

I've ridden for decades and many tens of thousands of miles on tubed tires, and also 40,000 miles on tubeless. Before you call me "ignorant" on this topic, tell us how many miles you've ridden on tubeless tires(?) The answer is obviously zero.

I think thorn catchers died out 40 years ago, although they're easy enough to make from an old spoke and a piece of plastic tube.

I've noticed no changes in these parameters.
The liners are only used on my commuter bike, which has 20" wheels (406).
I've also not had trouble with the liners themselves causing flats.

They are available on the Rene Herse website.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop...s/tire-wipers/

Of course they are. 😀