1983 Raleigh Special Record mixte - 27" steel wheel rims

the thrust of changing wheels is two-fold. stock rims are un-hooked. 27" size is somewhat a challenge to fit with tires. yes; they are there and i was able to get Pasela gum walls, but it was more of an ordeal than i need in my life.

if i am changing rims, i want to go aluminum/ hooked and a size smaller for the option of 1.375 tires (again panaracer pasela) plus the addition of fenders.

i will need long reach brakes at least in back..

back wheel is now solid axle; want to change to skewer.

i would really like to keep the factory freewheel.

i bought the bike a year ago, unassembled in its factory carton.

i have been cautioned that going too small in wheel diameter may result in crank-crunch - which is obviously undesirable; where do i begin?

thanks,

sid

It looks like new wheels with freewheel hubs are available, which surprised me: https://carsoncitybikeshop.com/wheel...rim-freewheel/

Many are nutted, but that one's QR. But it is 135mm wide so cold-setting the frame will probably be needed. It's probably at 126 now, and the QR might slip if not properly cold-set.

Long reach brakes will result in slightly less braking torque. You might need good pads, like Kool Stop Salmon.

I'm not sure what crank-crunch is, or how a rear wheel could cause it.

i think it's lowering the bottom bracket (in this case x reducing wheels diameter) to the point the pedals/ crank could touch ground in a cornering/ direction change.

thanks for the link & brakes caution.

i might be over my head trying to do this, but i won't be able to make a good decision if i don't investigate.

and i wonder how confused i can get with a mere flick of the wrist. to wit: reading the description of the above link, in the first sentence there are 3 different sizes given - "...Rims: WTB DX18 700C / 29'' (ETRTO 622), inner width: 18 mm*..."

asterisks aplenty with no corresponding footnotes = ggrrr!!!

is '700 S' a size? i have not been able to find a reference, yet someone told me it would be acceptable & less diameter than a 27" wheel. yet all arrows point to '700 C'. above description mentions 29". not 27"

i'm hyperventilating now . . .

I am assuming you want to go from 27” wheels to 700c wheels, right? That’s only an 8 mm change in diameter, and you are going to more than make that up by running a fatter tire. So you are not going to crunch your crank. As to brakes- most likely your centerpull brakes already enough adjustment range to accommodate the 4mm height difference in the brake pads.
Anyways- measure the dropout spacing. It’s probably around 126mm. Here is a 126mm freewheel hub wheel:
https://velomine.com/products/wheel-...26mm-qr-36h-dw

And post a pic of this NOS mixte please. Sounds like an amazing find.

The actual size of the 700C rim/tyre is 622 mm diameter where the tyre locates against the rim. That's 8 mm smaller diameter than a 27 inch wheel/tyre which is 630 mm.
[Historically 700C was also known in northern Europe as 28 inch, which is confusing because it's actually smaller than British 27 inch (and there's a British 28 inch size which is 635 mm, still used on roadsters in Asia). More recently 622 mm was adopted for mountain bikes, but as they use wider tyres these became known as 29 inch.]

If you're on 27x1-1/4" then your effective tyre diameter is 630 + 2 × 25.4 × 1.25 = 693.5 mm. Subtract 622, divide by 2 and you get 35.75 mm, so switching to 700x35C will give you almost exactly the same rolling diameter as your 27x1-1/4" tyre. As the rim is 4 mm smaller radius your brakes will need to reach 4 mm further, which is within the range of adjustment for some brakes, otherwise you'll need a caliper with a deeper drop.
[Note that 27x1.375" looks like it is the same numbers as 27x1-3/8" but the decimal version is incorrect - in tyre sizes 26x1.375 is a 559 mm mountain bike tyre but 26x1-3/8 is a 590 mm road bike tyre, the way it's written matters. As it happens there is no 27x1.decimal size so it's not easily confused with a different size but it's still incorrect, used by people or systems that can't enter 1-3/8" or a similar representation of that measurement.]

be aware that an aluminum, open cam QR skewer WILL allow the rear axle to suddenly slip forward under hard pedaling... very annoying... you'll want the steel internal cam style of QR skewer.

and the nutted axle sets can be swapped to QR style axle sets, in just about any width... the width swap will demand that the rim be re-Centered to the hub though... this can be daunting to do, and must be done correctly to avoid bike handling trouble.
Nutted and QR axles have different Thread Rates, so the cones and jam nuts do not interchange...

Co-Ops and CL bicycle parts/Ebay/Offer up/ FaceBook Marketplace, etc. can be a good source of a correct wheelset to fit the older bikes... or the Co-Op will have a correct axle set, and assist or do the swap for you ...

good grief. i didn't realize arithmetic would be involved.

but then with the exception of not following a couple of the steps, you have made it sensible and i appreciate that to no end: seriously/ kidding aside.

i'm certainly not such a strong or aggressive rider 8mm should be beyond my adaptation. one of the best BQ riding tips that i try to practice religiously is keeping my inside foot @ 12:00 o'clock when corning and shifting a little weight to the outside foot.

measured the distance between drop outs, weaving a long cotton swab stick between spoke & cogs, and came up with 125 mm.i would add for dropout thickness x 2 and whatever else is need but at least i am in the ballpark and measuring something fairly accurate.

the existing front brake has room in the shoe adjustment slots, but the rear will most likely have to be replaced. right now w/ the factory wheel 27" it's right at the bottom of the slots with only tilt adjustment. i could flip it to the top of the stay bridge, but that might make the cable pull on the brake cable yoke at an angl, ,which while it might work, would look a bit incongruous with the twin downtubes.

and afterall, they are why i love mixte frames, and the whole reason i'm embarking on this project.

my intention is to have this a winter project, and i can see it's going to take me that long to get a handle on all the variables.

thanks again; much appreciate the help.

sid

appreciate the quick release caution. i'm not advanced in my thinking yet to understand why, given the correct axle length and not spreading or squeezing the spacing would require recentering beyond a normal assembly procedure.

i am not changing cog numbers (5 out/ 5 back in) or do you mean the smaller diameter wheel would have shorter spokes and a different depth dish (if that's the correct term)?

i'll get there eventually. and i will definitely buy a wheel made up. we're not adding wheel building to this learning curve. although it is something i would like to do once before i'm stuffed in the box.

thanks for the links, too. got to check out those 2 sites.

sid

when changing axle lengths in a rear wheel, the non-drive side gets a shorter or longer spacer, and the freewheel or cassette remains at the same(or nearly the same) distance from the drive side dropout.

you had mentioned the new wheels you have seen are mostly 135mm O.L.D., so i included the axle change/respacing info, and mention the need to re-center the rim after changing the O.L.D....

and for reference... steel frames can and do get "Cold Set" to new dropout widths, but it MUST be done properly.... Aluminum or CF can NOT be reset.. aluminum is too stiff and can crack.. CF is brittle Epoxy Resin with stiff fibers, and it will not bend to a new shape.

i understand needing the cogs to be parallel with the chainrings and that there is only so much side-to-side latitude the chain can absorb in its travel from low to high cog & chainring combinations.

one of my down the path questions will be if i can change chainring & cog thicknesses to use a barrel link type - maybe "modern" is a better word - chain.

the original chain looks like it could power a mini-bike with a Briggs & Stratton engine.

that must have been when i was in my delirium because i don't remember that. i did measure the existing factory rear dropout inside to inside and came up with 125 mm.

i don't even know what O.L.D. means.

but i can certainly imagine what having the rear wheel off the frame centerline means : Trouble

take some time to look thru this glossary, ok?
https://bike.bikegremlin.com/168/bicycle-glossary/#O


"OLD: Acronym for Over Locknut Distance. Term still used for hub width, although many modern hubs with “industrial” bearings don’t have locknuts. On cup and cone hubs (that used to be the only available in the past), the outer most nuts were used to lock the cones in position by counter-tightening them, so they were called “locknuts”. Explained in this post: Bicycle rear hub."

Locknuts are also known as Jam Nuts, and are typically rather narrow, but can also be a standard nut.

the guy that created the Bike Gremlin site is a member here, btw.
and he needs to complete his Glossary..

PS.. your bike's OLD measurement is actually supposed to be 126mm... 120, 126, 130 and 135 are the most common, STANDARD, rear hub OLDs. Front STANDARD OLD is 100mm, but there are a couple other, very rare, exceptions to that rule.

and THRU AXLE designs are a completely different thing, with their own, still in flux, standards... 110mm front is common... rears are 142, 148, mostly... and no actual locknuts are used.

As above, your brakes might be adjustable enough to reach the rim, might not. A recent rebuild of al old bike for me meant whole new brake calipers. You want "long reach," and your selection will be very small.

You are putting a lot of money and energy into this old bike and unless it holds some sentimental value, I would have second thoughts. What is your budget? Hint: you are way over!

regarding brakes: what do the model numbers signify/ or nothing but names. example is a "630" 63 mm from pivot bolt to bottom of pad slot?

i have yet to share the Peugeot mixte story of '16. purchased for $50, and it was in such good shape i gave the kid $65. i think it was Mom's and she never rode it and it was kept inside since the mid '80s. i did date it with bottom bracket & rim numbers but forget the exact.

anyway, did you know the Yellow Jersey sells correct French seatposts for $90? so i bought a metric (literally) tonne of special tools and had a ball renovating it. Honjo, Brooks, Nitto - and an industrial lacquer paint job. two weeks later i gave it to a checker at the grocery store.

next summer i bought a 2K kayak 700$ carbon fiber paddle and every gee-gaw and doo dad i could think of. used it 20 minutes and decided "this isn't as much fun as i remembered from 30 years ago." so i gave it away

wanna tell me how to squander money on crap i'll never use? hah. i'm a professional.

i did look at the possibility of putting the brake on the top of the bridge and that might work.

- i got a notice that until i have 10 posts i can't include a url - but we know which link you sent me!

thank you for the link And lengthy explanation.

i'm embarrassed to tell what Steve at Modern Bike went through convincing me i had a 1" quill stem and need a shim etcetera etcetera but in the end i got my bars mounted and he made a customer.

the problem i get into with Sheldon Brown is the never ending spiral of more information. but i will attempt o ask less annoying questions as time marches on.

thx again

sid

There is an old saying: "The French copy no one and no one copies the French."
Those old Peugeot bikes with French threads and reverse threaded bottom brackets.

You can buy long reach brakes. I assume these are center-pull brakes, right? These come in both regular and long reach versions:

^ Long and short reach center-pull brakes side by side. You can find these on Ebay all day long.

thanks for that picture & the "heads-up".

i saw some Paul centerpull brakes around the 200$ make and hoped there would be a more moderate way to stop!

Q: what does the designation "710" & "650" represent?

mine, the ones on the bike from the factory, are only stickered Raleigh. so i'm a bit at a loss how to put all this information in one sock.

btw: size aside, are sidepull brakes in any way inferior in performance than centerpull, or simply different?

thx

sid

Around here I'd just buy a donor bike for wheels.

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That's what I did for a recent build, paid $30 for a bike, used the wheels, rack and fenders (and also gained a pair of my favourite toeclip pedals, but I used clipless on this bike). A single rim would have cost me $35 before shipping.

I think centerpull is more powerful than old single pivot sidepulls. And easier to set up. Sidepull brakes tend to lose their centering if the cable housing is too long or too short.
If your mixte originally came with centerpulls, I would stick with centerpulls.

okay with me; thanks