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Headset tightness

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Old 05-05-12 | 10:32 AM
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Headset tightness

I took my bike in for a tune up and when I picked it up the mechanic said he "fixed a creak" in my headset. I had never heard any creak.

The steering is now so tight I can put the bike in a stand and have the top tube at a 45 degree angle and the handlebars will stay set where ever they are.

Before they would have quickly flopped to the downhill side.

This seems wrong to me, but I have no real experience working on bikes.

Is this something I should be concerned with?
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Old 05-05-12 | 10:34 AM
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The headset appears to have been overtightened... the steerer should turn freely when you lean the bike and not bind and it should not have any play.

The difference between right and wrong in this adjustment is a very small one and think it is probably one of the more challenging adjustments to make for most be they pros or amateurs.
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Old 05-05-12 | 10:40 AM
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Definitely sounds too tight, but make sure it's not just a matter of the grease being too stiff. Over-tightened headsets wear out faster so it's something you want to correct. Headsets overtightened to where there's noticeable resistance to turning the bars make a bike more difficult to ride because they resist the very subtle steering corrections needed to balance a bike.

One way to know if the headset is OK or acceptably too tight is to ride no hands. If the headset is tight the steering corrections will lag and riding no hands will be difficult or impossible. You can also tell by walking the bike holding only the saddle, it should steer easily with only very slight angle adjustments.
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Old 05-05-12 | 10:54 AM
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Thanks sounds like I am taking it back.

Kind of the last straw for this bike shop to me...they just keep screwing things up.
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Old 05-05-12 | 12:40 PM
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Old 05-05-12 | 01:21 PM
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The ability to overtighten a headset and not know it (because the leverage the bars have over the bearings) is why when I teach how to adjust a headset I start with the bearings set too loose. Then you tighten them a bit at a time untill the slop (felt with the front brake locked and rocking the bike for and aft) is gone. This actually is the best way for all the other adjustabler bearings too. Loose to just tight enough, to remove the looseness. Oh, and with a headset the adjustment should be checked at a few different steering angles to check for a binding situation (if there's a bent steerer or non parallel bearing seats). Andy.
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Old 05-05-12 | 08:18 PM
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Your mechanic is incompetent and it should never have happened. I tighten all headsets using a torque wrench.
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Old 05-05-12 | 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence08648
Your mechanic is incompetent and it should never have happened. I tighten all headsets using a torque wrench.
All well and good, but not all headsets are created equal. The correct preload depends on the type of bearing and the contact angle. There's a large variation among the various headsets out there, so unless they specify a preload value and a torque (assuming a 6x1 cap screw), there's no way that using a torque wrench will ensure consistent results.
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Old 05-06-12 | 08:53 AM
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FBinNY- My suggestion to adjust the headset starting with a bit of slop, that can be felt by rocking the bike for and aft, can result in a preload that is correct for the bearing design. Only enough preload is used to elinimate the slop. This assumes that the bearing design allows for complete end play elimination, which is a completely different topic. Andy.
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Old 05-06-12 | 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by vesteroid
Thanks sounds like I am taking it back.

Kind of the last straw for this bike shop to me...they just keep screwing things up.
Just take the stem off and loosen the star nut! Why take it back when you already know better than the mechanic about the headset tightness?
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Old 05-06-12 | 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
Just take the stem off and loosen the star nut! Why take it back when you already know better than the mechanic about the headset tightness?

You're assuming it's a threadless headset.
I agree with 65'er that along with loose bearing BB, headsets, especially threaded, are some of the most putzy things to adjust properly. It often takes me a few times to get it like Goldilocks - Just Right
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Old 05-06-12 | 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
You're assuming it's a threadless headset.
I agree with 65'er that along with loose bearing BB, headsets, especially threaded, are some of the most putzy things to adjust properly. It often takes me a few times to get it like Goldilocks - Just Right
You're absolutely right, and I've never messed with threaded ones. But seriously, loosen the lock ring and twist the other, it's still got to be easier than taking it to mechanics who tighten them up too much?
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Old 05-06-12 | 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence08648
Your mechanic is incompetent and it should never have happened. I tighten all headsets using a torque wrench.
What are you talking about? I can't think of how a torque wrench could be used to preload headset bearings..
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Old 05-06-12 | 11:14 PM
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Your LBS sucks.
Originally Posted by dsbrantjr
If you want a job done properly, do it yourself.
This.

Originally Posted by Lawrence08648
Your mechanic is incompetent and it should never have happened.
And this.

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
it is probably one of the more challenging adjustments to make for most be they pros or amateurs.
IMO it should be child's play for an experienced mechanic. Not exactly rocket surgery for a noob, either.

Unless the headset has issues of some sort. Then it's usually a matter of leaving it overtight until you get a new headset.

Last edited by Kimmo; 05-06-12 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 05-07-12 | 05:12 PM
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The only thing that matters is how the bike behaves on the road. If the front wheel readily self-centers after a turn, then the bearings are not too tight. Modern integrated headseta take a lot of top cap torque to adequately preload the bearings. Conventional headsets are just the opposite. A very small change in the top cap tension will lock up the front wheel.
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Old 05-07-12 | 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence08648
Your mechanic is incompetent and it should never have happened. I tighten all headsets using a torque wrench.
I'd like to see you use a torque wrench on a threaded headset Still, I'm surprised you could get consistent results using this method even on threadless headsets, as most that I work on are neglected and damaged, which brings us to...

Originally Posted by Kimmo
Unless the headset has issues of some sort. Then it's usually a matter of leaving it overtight until you get a new headset.
This. If your headset is damaged and replacing the grease and balls does not cure it, there's really nothing you can do. So then the headset has to be tightened quite a bit to remove slop, to the point where it's stiff has tight spots.

But unless the mechanic actually rebuilt the headset first, then it shouldn't have been tightened like that. And even then, only if it's damaged beyond proper adjustment.
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Old 05-07-12 | 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
Modern integrated headseta take a lot of top cap torque to adequately preload the bearings. Conventional headsets are just the opposite. A very small change in the top cap tension will lock up the front wheel.
Yes! Why is that? I have noticed what you describe. What is different about modern headsets so as to allow more tightening torque to be used?
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Old 05-08-12 | 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JonathanGennick
Yes! Why is that? I have noticed what you describe. What is different about modern headsets so as to allow more tightening torque to be used?
Is it just give in star washers and compression plugs, or is something else going on? The size of the fasteners couldn't be more different, but the thread pitch is the same, innit?
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Old 05-09-12 | 02:49 AM
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Be very wary of riding a bike really fast with a too-tight headset. (Really fast like whooshing down a hill ~40mph+). Google tank-slapper.

More of a risk on a motorbike or a mountain bike with a suspension fork probably - but I have seen a roadbiking friend pull up ashen faced after a horrible surprise racing downhill. He did the right thing and smoothly washed off speed with the rear brake only - thankfully he stayed right side up. He lost all faith in that bike and upgraded shortly after.
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Old 05-09-12 | 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by JonathanGennick
Yes! Why is that? I have noticed what you describe. What is different about modern headsets so as to allow more tightening torque to be used?
I assume it's because of the use of cartridge bearings instead of loose or retainer held balls. With a loose ball threaded headset, I agree that a very small adjustment makes a big difference in steering resistance and adjusting them properly takes a deft touch. Cartridge bearing headsets, both threaded and threadless, can accept, or even require, a bit of preload. Several threadless cartridge bearing headsets I've worked on (Chris King, FSA and Cane Creek) specify preloads of 8 to 20 inch-pounds.
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Old 05-09-12 | 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
I assume it's because of the use of cartridge bearings instead of loose or retainer held balls.
That's right. I'm just wondering what it is about cartridge bearings that allows for a wider range of adjustment. Deep inside there are still balls.
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Old 05-09-12 | 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JonathanGennick
That's right. I'm just wondering what it is about cartridge bearings that allows for a wider range of adjustment. Deep inside there are still balls.
I'm not certain why but I've had it described to me that cartridge bearings have different "seat angles" for the balls relative to the races and, therefore, can take a moderate preload and also don't tend to "Brinell" the way loose ball headsets can.
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