Headset tightness
#1
Headset tightness
I took my bike in for a tune up and when I picked it up the mechanic said he "fixed a creak" in my headset. I had never heard any creak.
The steering is now so tight I can put the bike in a stand and have the top tube at a 45 degree angle and the handlebars will stay set where ever they are.
Before they would have quickly flopped to the downhill side.
This seems wrong to me, but I have no real experience working on bikes.
Is this something I should be concerned with?
The steering is now so tight I can put the bike in a stand and have the top tube at a 45 degree angle and the handlebars will stay set where ever they are.
Before they would have quickly flopped to the downhill side.
This seems wrong to me, but I have no real experience working on bikes.
Is this something I should be concerned with?
#2
The headset appears to have been overtightened... the steerer should turn freely when you lean the bike and not bind and it should not have any play.
The difference between right and wrong in this adjustment is a very small one and think it is probably one of the more challenging adjustments to make for most be they pros or amateurs.
The difference between right and wrong in this adjustment is a very small one and think it is probably one of the more challenging adjustments to make for most be they pros or amateurs.
#3
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From: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Definitely sounds too tight, but make sure it's not just a matter of the grease being too stiff. Over-tightened headsets wear out faster so it's something you want to correct. Headsets overtightened to where there's noticeable resistance to turning the bars make a bike more difficult to ride because they resist the very subtle steering corrections needed to balance a bike.
One way to know if the headset is OK or acceptably too tight is to ride no hands. If the headset is tight the steering corrections will lag and riding no hands will be difficult or impossible. You can also tell by walking the bike holding only the saddle, it should steer easily with only very slight angle adjustments.
One way to know if the headset is OK or acceptably too tight is to ride no hands. If the headset is tight the steering corrections will lag and riding no hands will be difficult or impossible. You can also tell by walking the bike holding only the saddle, it should steer easily with only very slight angle adjustments.
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FB
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#6
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From: Rochester, NY
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The ability to overtighten a headset and not know it (because the leverage the bars have over the bearings) is why when I teach how to adjust a headset I start with the bearings set too loose. Then you tighten them a bit at a time untill the slop (felt with the front brake locked and rocking the bike for and aft) is gone. This actually is the best way for all the other adjustabler bearings too. Loose to just tight enough, to remove the looseness. Oh, and with a headset the adjustment should be checked at a few different steering angles to check for a binding situation (if there's a bent steerer or non parallel bearing seats). Andy.
#8
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From: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
All well and good, but not all headsets are created equal. The correct preload depends on the type of bearing and the contact angle. There's a large variation among the various headsets out there, so unless they specify a preload value and a torque (assuming a 6x1 cap screw), there's no way that using a torque wrench will ensure consistent results.
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FB
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#9
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From: Rochester, NY
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FBinNY- My suggestion to adjust the headset starting with a bit of slop, that can be felt by rocking the bike for and aft, can result in a preload that is correct for the bearing design. Only enough preload is used to elinimate the slop. This assumes that the bearing design allows for complete end play elimination, which is a completely different topic. Andy.
#10
#11
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You're assuming it's a threadless headset.
I agree with 65'er that along with loose bearing BB, headsets, especially threaded, are some of the most putzy things to adjust properly. It often takes me a few times to get it like Goldilocks - Just Right
#12
You're absolutely right, and I've never messed with threaded ones. But seriously, loosen the lock ring and twist the other, it's still got to be easier than taking it to mechanics who tighten them up too much?
#13
#14
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Your LBS sucks.
This.
And this.
IMO it should be child's play for an experienced mechanic. Not exactly rocket surgery for a noob, either.
Unless the headset has issues of some sort. Then it's usually a matter of leaving it overtight until you get a new headset.
This.
And this.
Unless the headset has issues of some sort. Then it's usually a matter of leaving it overtight until you get a new headset.
Last edited by Kimmo; 05-06-12 at 11:17 PM.
#15
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From: Loveland, CO
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The only thing that matters is how the bike behaves on the road. If the front wheel readily self-centers after a turn, then the bearings are not too tight. Modern integrated headseta take a lot of top cap torque to adequately preload the bearings. Conventional headsets are just the opposite. A very small change in the top cap tension will lock up the front wheel.
#16
Still, I'm surprised you could get consistent results using this method even on threadless headsets, as most that I work on are neglected and damaged, which brings us to...But unless the mechanic actually rebuilt the headset first, then it shouldn't have been tightened like that. And even then, only if it's damaged beyond proper adjustment.
#17
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From: Munising, Michigan, USA
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Yes! Why is that? I have noticed what you describe. What is different about modern headsets so as to allow more tightening torque to be used?
#18
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From: Melbourne, Oz
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Is it just give in star washers and compression plugs, or is something else going on? The size of the fasteners couldn't be more different, but the thread pitch is the same, innit?
#19
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Be very wary of riding a bike really fast with a too-tight headset. (Really fast like whooshing down a hill ~40mph+). Google tank-slapper.
More of a risk on a motorbike or a mountain bike with a suspension fork probably - but I have seen a roadbiking friend pull up ashen faced after a horrible surprise racing downhill. He did the right thing and smoothly washed off speed with the rear brake only - thankfully he stayed right side up. He lost all faith in that bike and upgraded shortly after.
More of a risk on a motorbike or a mountain bike with a suspension fork probably - but I have seen a roadbiking friend pull up ashen faced after a horrible surprise racing downhill. He did the right thing and smoothly washed off speed with the rear brake only - thankfully he stayed right side up. He lost all faith in that bike and upgraded shortly after.
#20
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
I assume it's because of the use of cartridge bearings instead of loose or retainer held balls. With a loose ball threaded headset, I agree that a very small adjustment makes a big difference in steering resistance and adjusting them properly takes a deft touch. Cartridge bearing headsets, both threaded and threadless, can accept, or even require, a bit of preload. Several threadless cartridge bearing headsets I've worked on (Chris King, FSA and Cane Creek) specify preloads of 8 to 20 inch-pounds.
#21
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From: Munising, Michigan, USA
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#22
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
I'm not certain why but I've had it described to me that cartridge bearings have different "seat angles" for the balls relative to the races and, therefore, can take a moderate preload and also don't tend to "Brinell" the way loose ball headsets can.





