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Internal routing broken

Old 07-08-13, 02:31 AM
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jordisb
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Internal routing broken

I have a Focus Izalco team 2010. The other day I was replacing the old cables from the front and rear Derailleur. This is a carbon frame with internal routing. When inserting the front Derailleur new cable, I realized It stops when it get to the bottom and don't come up. Tried several things like using a vaccum from one end to get a thread be sucked, but when doing so, the air does not flow from one hole to the other, so I think it somehow got blocked? Is is possible to fix this problem? maybe I am wrong and it is not blocked... if so, can I replace the inner routing?

Thanks for the help
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Old 07-08-13, 05:33 AM
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Try running just the cable through. It might take some manipulation and multiple tries. Once you get the cable through, feed the housing over it and use the cable as a guide wire to get the housing through the frame. The next time you do this, leave the old cable in place, pull the old housing off, feed the new housing over the old cable, then replace the cable.
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Old 07-08-13, 06:21 AM
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Thanks Myosmith for the quick response the problem is that the bike has no housing, I mean, it is part of the carbon frame until it gets to the bottom, where is has to turn around the bottom bracket and head up to the front Derailleur, there, there is a small hole where the cable gets out. I think there is some tubing where it turns, as it feel like a change. And the thing about being blocked... And you are right, I should be more careful when changing cables and use a guide, but it was a small accident that I puil the wrong one :S
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Old 07-08-13, 06:33 AM
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You may have to pull the crank and remove the bottom bracket to see inside the bb shell to diagnose where the cable is supposed to go.
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Old 07-08-13, 06:38 AM
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I don't have much experience with CF frames, so forgive me if I'm wrong:



In the above picture, the white cable housing appears to extend into the frame. Does the housing stop near the head tube or does the housing extend all the way through the downtube?
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Old 07-08-13, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
You may have to pull the crank and remove the bottom bracket to see inside the bb shell to diagnose where the cable is supposed to go.
+1

You can always replace internal cables one way or the other. This is obvious since the factory started from scratch and attached the wire and believe me they didn't fool around with a vacuum or anything.

The key is that factories thread internals cables before installing the BB, which gives access to where the hard bends are. Cables are usually guided by means of a stiff wire "fish" which is pushed down from the end and used to pull the wire through chainstay, or whatever exit path is involved.
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Old 07-08-13, 08:27 AM
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Yes, I think I will have to check from the inside by removing the bottom bracket. In my Izalco the housing finishes in the hole, and then it is routed in a carbon pipe all the way down to the bottom bracket when it gets in trouble. Thanks for all your help
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Old 07-08-13, 09:23 PM
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Allow me to add to your frustration with my rant. I hate internal cable routing. It is so much of a hassle to service the cable (yes, cables can be serviced without replacement) let alone replace them. For a job that should take so short a time (lubing cables, insuring free movement), internal routing seems to add a lot of frustrating effort for so little addition to one's ride. I know that ALL my rides don't have a timing chip involved. My riding partners don't care whether i finish 10 feet ahead or behind them. To my perspective internal routing is a marketing solution for an ego problem. There, done. Andy.
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Old 07-15-13, 03:53 AM
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Hi! I pulled the crank and removed bottom bracket, but there is an aluminum cylinder "soldered" to the carbon frame. I guess they made the internal routing before they put the cylinder, so I found myself with no access to the internal routing, any idea if this is irreversible problem? thanks for the help. I will take the frame to a local retailer if I cant fix it this week.
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Old 07-15-13, 08:49 AM
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Have you tried phoning the importer or asking one of their dealers? I don't know the bike, but I'm sure others have replaced cables by now so there must be a method that works.
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Old 07-15-13, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Allow me to add to your frustration with my rant. I hate internal cable routing. It is so much of a hassle to service the cable (yes, cables can be serviced without replacement) let alone replace them. For a job that should take so short a time (lubing cables, insuring free movement), internal routing seems to add a lot of frustrating effort for so little addition to one's ride. I know that ALL my rides don't have a timing chip involved. My riding partners don't care whether i finish 10 feet ahead or behind them. To my perspective internal routing is a marketing solution for an ego problem. There, done. Andy.
I concur. The advantage is cosmetic.
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Old 07-15-13, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Allow me to add to your frustration with my rant. I hate internal cable routing. It is so much of a hassle to service the cable (yes, cables can be serviced without replacement) let alone replace them. ...To my perspective internal routing is a marketing solution for an ego problem. There, done. Andy.
I understand the rant, and partly agree. Though there's little actual benefit to internal routing, it doesn't have to be all bad either. I've seen nicely done internal routing which needed little or no extra effort to work on.

Unfortunately, like so many things, internal is one of those things which is nice when done well (not great , just nice), but a total bar when done poorly, as it often is.
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Old 07-15-13, 08:06 PM
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If it were me I'd take a small solid wire that the housing can slide over, I'd shape the wire to feed thru the frame and out the other side then take the outer housing slide it over and feed it in so it follows it in and out, I've had to do this to some ones frame. Or call or have the dealer contact Focus and see if they will fix or replace the frame.
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Old 05-14-14, 10:30 AM
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I'am sure you have fixed you routing by now so my question is could you get any internal housing for your bike? I have an Izalco and the tubing for the front der. is damaged. I'am still using old internal factory internal housing and wondering if one can purchase this stuff. It seems to be unique to this frame. Any thoughts I would appreciate. Thanks.
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Old 05-15-14, 11:41 AM
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There is no way that the housing is 100% unique to that one factory. There's two sizes of standard shift housing. The small stuff and the large stuff. You simply need to pull out and measure the stuff that is in your frame.

And while the housing mostly comes with black plastic on the outside a little effort will find other options with different colouring.

Nothing in your post or the previous posts says if the frame uses full length housing or if the frame has stops in the cable holes with just a nylon guide tube inside the frame. But either way a length of 1/16 music wire from a local hobby shop that caters to model railroaders or radio control models will work great as a fish wire. I'd suggest leave the one end straight and bend a small "L or "U into the other end. The wire is springy but it can be slightly curved pretty easily to encourage the other end to find the hole at the far end of the frame tube.
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Old 08-07-15, 07:24 AM
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I have the exact same problem!!!! someone please help!!! ....
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Old 08-07-15, 07:26 AM
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I have the same problem, do you find a solution?
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Old 03-25-16, 09:59 AM
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Hi, I have the exact same problem with Focus Izalco: front gear cable broken, my bike mechanic couldn't get the new cable through the frame. He thinks it is a construction error in the bike. His plan is to phone the Focus dealer and ask a new frame since it is a Focus construction error in his opinion...
Did anyone fixed the problem or is it really a construction error :s
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Old 03-25-16, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthys1979 View Post
Hi, I have the exact same problem with Focus Izalco: front gear cable broken, my bike mechanic couldn't get the new cable through the frame. He thinks it is a construction error in the bike. His plan is to phone the Focus dealer and ask a new frame since it is a Focus construction error in his opinion...
Did anyone fixed the problem or is it really a construction error :s
So this bike never was able to have a cable run through it? Or it did have a cable when new? I agree that there are a lot of poorly done internal routings out there. But if the bike came with a cable that worked I don't know if I'd call not being able to route a replacement cable as a warranty. Out of curiosity how old is this bike and who long is the warranty good for independent of whether this problem is a proper claim or not? Andy.
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Old 03-25-16, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
So this bike never was able to have a cable run through it? ....
I'd have to assume that nobody would be asking if the bike didn't originally have internal routing, since that's not something that's possible unless provided for in the frame.

However not all internally routed frames are equally user friendly when it comes to threading a replacement. I've seen some that are so bad that it's just about impossible to thread wires without removing the bottom bracket, so you can make the turn. A few I've worked on were so bad, that I had to thread from both ends to the BB, then attach the gear wire to the "fish" I threaded from the chain stay and pull it the rest of the way.

These days, when a friend asks for help cabling an internal cable, I tell him not to remove the original. I cut it off at the handlebar end, use a length of heat shrink tubing to splice the two together, then --- very gently --- ease the new wire into place. The key is to push and pull together so you don't pull the splice apart.
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Old 03-26-16, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
So this bike never was able to have a cable run through it? Or it did have a cable when new? I agree that there are a lot of poorly done internal routings out there. But if the bike came with a cable that worked I don't know if I'd call not being able to route a replacement cable as a warranty. Out of curiosity how old is this bike and who long is the warranty good for independent of whether this problem is a proper claim or not? Andy.
For me it also seems strange since indeed original cable also ran through the frame. Bike is 3,5 years old. It seems unlikely for me that Focus will send a new frame without charging for it. However that was what my bike mechanic said he would try to arrange...I don't know much about bike mechanics but I understand from previous posts that internal cable replacement are often problematic? Since this post started originally for Focus Izalco bikes and a lot of people had the same problem with it I hoped it was only with this bike the problem occured. Then I hoped it really might be a problem related with Focus Izalco but if it is in general a difficult issue chances of getting it fixed without costs by Focus seems less.
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Old 03-26-16, 09:27 AM
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I asked about the OE cable presence on the bike as a way of making my point. That the bike had a cable in place when new that worked for a number of years shows that the bike did and can work as intended. So I believe there is no valid warranty claim. But this is only to be determined by the manufacturer, not me, you or the mechanic. It is possible that the manufacturer will want to keep a customer happy and send out a replacement frame. I doubt it though and would also wonder if the replacement frame will need a cable run through it and might prove to be equally challenging to do so.

I completely agree with Francis that there are many poorly designed internal cable routings. I have said as much many times on this and other public forums. This isn't news. Back in the 1970s I saw my first attempts of internal routing, all be it with steel frames. (Interesting is that those attempts were far easier to deal with then many of today's carbon bikes).

I can be cynical often and this topic is where I often express my feelings in strong terms. The cost of a bike isn't just the dollars and cents that transfers from owner to seller. The real cost is often realized later when the owner needs to do something to the bike. Change the gearing, change the tire size, do routine maintenance, replace worn parts or (with press fit BBs) just want to ride the bike in peace and quiet. This later cost is the frustration expressed by the OP. The higher labor when the LBS finally takes over the job. When people like me point out the short sightedness of the owner had when he bought the bike (and this short sightedness is understandable given the marketing departments' efforts to not talk about this future cost, to only focus on the short term features) we are often blamed when we are but the messenger.

I'll end my little rant by saying that some will then say to me I need to not buy into the modern bike market, that I need to do my own thing, that I should do it myself. I'll reply that I do. I build my frames with cable routing as a high priority in the design and fabricating of the braze ons.
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Old 04-25-16, 08:39 PM
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Any users still having issue with this problem just pm me. Not a terribly difficult fix.
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Old 04-25-16, 08:47 PM
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I don't know any thing about this, but would it help if u put in one of those camera lines they have now that can attach and view thru your phone,, to see what is gong on inside? Don't know if they have line thin enough to thread thru the opening??
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Old 04-26-16, 06:33 AM
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My trick is to position the bike so that the cable exit is pointing straight down. Then I run an ordinary shift cable through the frame tube. Gravity brings the cable to the exit hole where I can fish it out with something. Once I figure out how to position the bike the rest of the process usually takes about as much time as it did for me to type this post.
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