Stumped by hub adjustment
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,435
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
Stumped by hub adjustment
I just bought a new pair of wheels with shimano 105 hubs. The front adjusted out beautifully. The rear not so much. I've adjusted countless hubs but I can't get this right. Currently it feels tight. The freehub side has zero play; the left hand side has some play in it. When I mount the wheel in the drop outs and clamp down on the QR skewer, the wheel has some play so the adjustment isn't right.
The wheel is brand new. The axle is not broken. What gives?
I think I'm going to have to return the wheel to the shop as the hub must be, I think, defective.
The wheel is brand new. The axle is not broken. What gives?
I think I'm going to have to return the wheel to the shop as the hub must be, I think, defective.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
Shimano freehubs are modular with the freehub attached to the shell, and the entire assembly floated on cup/cone bearings at either end.
see schematic / exploded view
So I can't understand how one end can be correctly adjusted, and the other side not.
Odds are the hub is fine, and you just need to correctly adjust the bearing (adjust cones) from the left.
see schematic / exploded view
So I can't understand how one end can be correctly adjusted, and the other side not.
Odds are the hub is fine, and you just need to correctly adjust the bearing (adjust cones) from the left.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,435
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
Shimano freehubs are modular with the freehub attached to the shell, and the entire assembly floated on cup/cone bearings at either end.
see schematic / exploded view
So I can't understand how one end can be correctly adjusted, and the other side not.
Odds are the hub is fine, and you just need to correctly adjust the bearing (adjust cones) from the left.
see schematic / exploded view
So I can't understand how one end can be correctly adjusted, and the other side not.
Odds are the hub is fine, and you just need to correctly adjust the bearing (adjust cones) from the left.
So yeah, this makes zero sense to me. I've tried more than a few times to adjust it from the left side (which is the only way to get at it since the free hub makes it virtually impossible to get at the flats on the right side).
Honestly I can't figure out how one side is tight and the other loose.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
Yeah I took a look at that schematic a few days ago as well. I sure as heck don't understand this either. I've been adjusting cup and cone hubs for a long time and never had an issue getting an acceptable if not a very good adjustment (as long as the cup and cones were smooth).
Honestly I can't figure out how one side is tight and the other loose.
Honestly I can't figure out how one side is tight and the other loose.
Forget the right, adjust from the left, as you would any other hub.
If you still can't get it, pay someone to do it for you.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,435
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
The right side may be fooling you. There's limited clearance between the axle and freehub nut, so even when loose, there's little wobble on the right side.
Forget the right, adjust from the left, as you would any other hub.
If you still can't get it, pay someone to do it for you.
Forget the right, adjust from the left, as you would any other hub.
If you still can't get it, pay someone to do it for you.
But seriously, the hub is a bit too loose right now (there is play when you clamp down on the QR) but the adjustment is clearly too tight when you rotate the axle. I know what a correctly adjusted hub feels like this and this is wrong.
I'm still thinking this could be defective in some fashion. Maybe this is a bad hub that wasn't made to the right tolerances.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
Yeah, I'll give it another shot or two. Some tunes and a beer or two wouldn't hurt either.
But seriously, the hub is a bit too loose right now (there is play when you clamp down on the QR) but the adjustment is clearly too tight when you rotate the axle. I know what a correctly adjusted hub feels like this and this is wrong.
I'm still thinking this could be defective in some fashion. Maybe this is a bad hub that wasn't made to the right tolerances.
But seriously, the hub is a bit too loose right now (there is play when you clamp down on the QR) but the adjustment is clearly too tight when you rotate the axle. I know what a correctly adjusted hub feels like this and this is wrong.
I'm still thinking this could be defective in some fashion. Maybe this is a bad hub that wasn't made to the right tolerances.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,435
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
The hub is brand new. Yeah, the tightness is not hub tightness; I know what that feels like so maybe it's just the drag from the seal. Still that is a heck of a lot of drag. It is literally hard to turn by hand. The axle should turn freely but it turns badly for a new hub.
I always adjust new hubs. Although maybe not after this time, .
I always adjust new hubs. Although maybe not after this time, .
#8
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,535
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3669 Post(s)
Liked 5,420 Times
in
2,756 Posts
I can't understand how you determined there is play on one side but not the other.
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,435
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,435
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
When I do the same on the left side, there is play.
This is when the wheel is off the bike.
On the bike, I clamp the wheel down good and there is considerable play.
I'm thinking there is some sort of misalignment here.
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,435
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
#14
Senior Member
Check to make sure the ball bearings are all in place? New grease? I find new hubs sometimes are lacking in grease. Is the axle length correct for your drop out? Is the hub centered on the axle? Correct spacers ,washers on each side?
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 932
Bikes: '04 LeMond Buenos Aires, '82 Bianchi Nuova Racing, De Rosa SLX, Bridgestone MB-1, Guerciotti TSX, Torpado Aelle, LeMond Tourmalet 853, Bridgestone Radac
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times
in
36 Posts
I have a set of cheap MTB wheels with Deore hubs; the seals create considerable drag when I turn the axle by hand. When removed, they spin fine.
Anyway, that play on one side sounds like something not seating properly. I've never experienced it, though. The problem can be described over & over here, but I think it's time to take it to a shop for an opinion so someone else can see and/or feel the problem.
Anyway, that play on one side sounds like something not seating properly. I've never experienced it, though. The problem can be described over & over here, but I think it's time to take it to a shop for an opinion so someone else can see and/or feel the problem.
#16
Senior Member
Meh, the shops around me aren't any better (actually, they're a lot worse) at adjusting hubs than I am.
I suspect that the play on one side but not the other is a bit of a red herring here and that the real problem is that the hub is too loose (hence, play).
If the OP isn't using one already, I suggest getting an axle vice. Others may disagree, but I've come to believe that an axle vice is pretty much mandatory when adjusting rear hubs because it's the only way I know to keep the axle from turning as I tighten down the locknut against the cone.
For those suspecting the seals are creating drag, these are 105 hubs, which don't have the aggressive seals of MTB. From personal experience, those babies should run very smoothly once adjusted correctly.
Mike
I suspect that the play on one side but not the other is a bit of a red herring here and that the real problem is that the hub is too loose (hence, play).
If the OP isn't using one already, I suggest getting an axle vice. Others may disagree, but I've come to believe that an axle vice is pretty much mandatory when adjusting rear hubs because it's the only way I know to keep the axle from turning as I tighten down the locknut against the cone.
For those suspecting the seals are creating drag, these are 105 hubs, which don't have the aggressive seals of MTB. From personal experience, those babies should run very smoothly once adjusted correctly.
Mike
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 330
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Limited 650B conversion (sold), 1985(?) Guerciotti retro-roadie, 2018 Specialized Allez Sprint, 2012 Specialized Crux, mid 80's Focus MB-400
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
+1, this is just a guess, but your difficulties might be caused by a missing or an extra ball bearing. I think it would definitely be worthwhile to check.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: southeastern PA - a mile west of Philadelphia
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I’ve had to adjust the wheel bearings of every new wheelset as well as on every new bike, as they’re typically overly tight. Many others are poorly greased and some are nearly grease-free or have debris in the grease, so being new doesn’t exclude them from being adjusted or even disassembled, re-greased, then properly adjusted.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
I’ve had to adjust the wheel bearings of every new wheelset as well as on every new bike, as they’re typically overly tight. Many others are poorly greased and some are nearly grease-free or have debris in the grease, so being new doesn’t exclude them from being adjusted or even disassembled, re-greased, then properly adjusted.
In any case, I asked because the OP was having problems that usually happen after a user rebuild (displaced seal, extra or displaced ball, etc.) so I felt I'd gone as far as I could based on the info provided so far.
Had the OP found the hub tight and just slightly loosened it, then he wouldn't suffer the range of issues one might after a rebuild.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.