Peugeot Mixte Bike Opinions
05-22-18, 05:34 PM
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Peugeot Mixte Bike Opinions
Soliciting expert advice on this bike:
https://winchester.craigslist.org/bi...595246812.html
It's advertised as a "Record du Monde", but my research tells me that this is more or less meaningless, as every Peugeot of the day had that. It looks mostly complete. It probably needs a lot of stuff, as the seller admits that it needs fixing. I'm not terribly interested, but would buy it if it was something special and/or too good of a deal to pass up. Asking price is $35.
I can see cottered cranks and centerpull brakes, but nothing else in particular stands out to me.
Thanks in advance.
https://winchester.craigslist.org/bi...595246812.html
It's advertised as a "Record du Monde", but my research tells me that this is more or less meaningless, as every Peugeot of the day had that. It looks mostly complete. It probably needs a lot of stuff, as the seller admits that it needs fixing. I'm not terribly interested, but would buy it if it was something special and/or too good of a deal to pass up. Asking price is $35.
I can see cottered cranks and centerpull brakes, but nothing else in particular stands out to me.
Thanks in advance.
05-23-18, 06:58 AM
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The subject bicycle is a boom era Peugeot UO8, which was their most popular model, 2nd from the bottom of the lightweight line and considered upper entry level. The condition is only fair but the price is reasonable. You need to assess them carefully, as replacing items can becomes expensive due to the non-standard, metric parts. However, provided you are capable of putting up with the idiosyncrasies of overhauling a French bicycle, they make nice but fairly heavy riders.
05-23-18, 07:12 AM
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Thanks, @T-Mar. I also have a 1982 Motobecane Jubile Sport that I've cleaned up. I will probably sell it on, as I've found that drop bars just aren't for me, and the road bike frame is rather limiting on tire width (30mm maximum). I'm guessing the Pug has 27x1-1/4" tires right now, and it looks like it might take up to a 35mm or maybe a 38mm, just guessing on the poor photos. Does that sound right for a UO8? It seems that others on BF report being able to use 35s or larger (and even with fenders).
I guess the bottom bracket threading will be true French (unlike my Moto, which is Swiss). Other than that, I'm up to speed on things like French stems and such. The more I look at it, the more I think I might like the city bars it has. I might even put something like a Wald basket on the front and just clean it up and ride it as is. Would make a great errands bike.
Thanks for the info!
I guess the bottom bracket threading will be true French (unlike my Moto, which is Swiss). Other than that, I'm up to speed on things like French stems and such. The more I look at it, the more I think I might like the city bars it has. I might even put something like a Wald basket on the front and just clean it up and ride it as is. Would make a great errands bike.
Thanks for the info!
05-23-18, 10:02 AM
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I would snap that bike up in a heartbeat.
BUT if I did, I would replace all brake and derailleur cables and housing, and I would check and regrease all bearings. I would replace the steel rims with aluminum ones. The Mafac brakes are quite good but would be improved with Kool Stop pads.
People are quick to note that older French bikes have unique sized parts and threads, but it is easy to find (or adjust) parts for them. There is lots of info here on that. As long as you are aware of the differences or at least know to ask, French bikes are as easy to maintain as any other bike.
BUT if I did, I would replace all brake and derailleur cables and housing, and I would check and regrease all bearings. I would replace the steel rims with aluminum ones. The Mafac brakes are quite good but would be improved with Kool Stop pads.
People are quick to note that older French bikes have unique sized parts and threads, but it is easy to find (or adjust) parts for them. There is lots of info here on that. As long as you are aware of the differences or at least know to ask, French bikes are as easy to maintain as any other bike.
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05-23-18, 11:00 AM
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I let the seller know I was interested earlier this morning, and I asked about the condition of the frame and paint and decals. I haven't heard back yet, but I'll let you know if I end up buying this bike.
05-23-18, 12:25 PM
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The comparative U.S. model is a UE-18, though this one originally came without the fenders or lights. As best as I know, that headbadge with the triangular shield came on model-years 1963-1970, so it should be no later than 1970.
05-23-18, 01:19 PM
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It looks like there was also a UO-18 and a UO-18/C (or similar nomenclature). The UO-8 was the traditional triangle frame, and the UO-18 was the mixte frame.
Seller says, "just needs seat tries paint in good condition", so I'm going to check it out. I read that as "just needs a seat; the tires and the paint are in good condition".
Seller says, "just needs seat tries paint in good condition", so I'm going to check it out. I read that as "just needs a seat; the tires and the paint are in good condition".
05-23-18, 03:16 PM
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Does anyone know if Winchester has a memorial to Blossom Dearie?
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Does anyone know if Winchester has a memorial to Blossom Dearie?
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05-23-18, 06:45 PM
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I bought the bike tonight. No pictures of my own, yet, but I think it's a good buy. The tires are pretty rotted. They do hold air and they do have tread, and they're rideable as far as taking the thing around the block. The drivetrain actually works pretty well. The rear derailleur is a Simplex with a red label (I think a Prestige). The front derailleur is a Sun Bow, which I believe is possibly an aftermarket replacement -- various Peugeot catalogs seem to show that they usually matched derailleurs. The shifters are Huret with a black plastic tab on the end. Brakes are MAFAC center pulls with MAFAC plastic-coated levers (odd).
The chain stays have a nice cutout for tire clearance, but it looks like it's best suited for either a 559mm wheel or a 584mm wheel (more likely a 584). The current 630mm wheels place the brake track at about the front of the cutout, meaning it's entirely mis-placed to allow for the tire bulge. A 622mm wheel would have similar issues. I think that if any bike is a good candidate for a 650b conversion with something like 42mm or 47mm tires, this might be that bike. I'd have to measure brake reach before I spent any money. The hubs are high flange hubs, and appear to be original, but I couldn't know for sure. I'm sure they're inexpensive, whatever they are. The wheels appear to be Rigida with the textured brake tracks. The rear has a simpled pattern and the front has a pattern that resembles a brick pattern. I would not keep these wheels long-term on the bike, so this is of no real consequence to me.
The crank set is a 36-52, which is nice for what I want to do with it (lower speed town bike). I'm unsure of the brand, but the large ring appears to have a small image of a bicycle stamped or forged into it. The teeth seem good. Pedals spin freely and without noise. I lubed the chain and ran the drivetrain on the stand and all seems pretty well with it. It needs inner and outer cables for sure, which is no problem; I have all that. It'll need brake cables, too, but the brakes will have to go when the wheels go, so I won't spend any money on brake pads yet. I don't know what kind of long(er) reach brakes I would put on it if I went to 584mm wheels, but I doubt they'd use smooth post brake pads like these MAFACs take.
The paint will cleanup nicely. There are nicks and dingers on it, consistent with what is likely a 50 year old bike, but I think the paint will actually buff out pretty nice. I'm pleased to own it.
The chain stays have a nice cutout for tire clearance, but it looks like it's best suited for either a 559mm wheel or a 584mm wheel (more likely a 584). The current 630mm wheels place the brake track at about the front of the cutout, meaning it's entirely mis-placed to allow for the tire bulge. A 622mm wheel would have similar issues. I think that if any bike is a good candidate for a 650b conversion with something like 42mm or 47mm tires, this might be that bike. I'd have to measure brake reach before I spent any money. The hubs are high flange hubs, and appear to be original, but I couldn't know for sure. I'm sure they're inexpensive, whatever they are. The wheels appear to be Rigida with the textured brake tracks. The rear has a simpled pattern and the front has a pattern that resembles a brick pattern. I would not keep these wheels long-term on the bike, so this is of no real consequence to me.
The crank set is a 36-52, which is nice for what I want to do with it (lower speed town bike). I'm unsure of the brand, but the large ring appears to have a small image of a bicycle stamped or forged into it. The teeth seem good. Pedals spin freely and without noise. I lubed the chain and ran the drivetrain on the stand and all seems pretty well with it. It needs inner and outer cables for sure, which is no problem; I have all that. It'll need brake cables, too, but the brakes will have to go when the wheels go, so I won't spend any money on brake pads yet. I don't know what kind of long(er) reach brakes I would put on it if I went to 584mm wheels, but I doubt they'd use smooth post brake pads like these MAFACs take.
The paint will cleanup nicely. There are nicks and dingers on it, consistent with what is likely a 50 year old bike, but I think the paint will actually buff out pretty nice. I'm pleased to own it.
05-23-18, 07:55 PM
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The chain stays have a nice cutout for tire clearance, but it looks like it's best suited for either a 559mm wheel or a 584mm wheel (more likely a 584). The current 630mm wheels place the brake track at about the front of the cutout, meaning it's entirely mis-placed to allow for the tire bulge. A 622mm wheel would have similar issues. I think that if any bike is a good candidate for a 650b conversion with something like 42mm or 47mm tires, this might be that bike. I'd have to measure brake reach before I spent any money. The hubs are high flange hubs, and appear to be original, but I couldn't know for sure. I'm sure they're inexpensive, whatever they are. The wheels appear to be Rigida with the textured brake tracks. The rear has a simpled pattern and the front has a pattern that resembles a brick pattern. I would not keep these wheels long-term on the bike, so this is of no real consequence to me.
The pic above is a Helium for sale in a vide grenier near Paris. You will see that this bike uses really long arm brakes, I think Weinmann.
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05-24-18, 06:17 AM
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Thanks. That looks very similar to mine, except that mine has straight lateral tubes, whereas the laterals on that one bend at the seat tube. It's probably even the same color. Various Peugeot catalogs list an "Emerald Green"; I'm sure that's what mine is. Everything was very stiff on the bike, but works great with new cables and housing. The brakes move smoothly and the derailers seem to function...great. The chain is loosened up and runs smooth. I used a thick wet lube on it to work in (due to rust, etc), so the drivetrain is pretty messy at this point from running it on the stand, but it's actually helping to loosen up the crud and grime on things like the freewheel. It's an Atom freewheel, with "Atom" and "Made in France" in a script font. It's not an Atom 77 -- it just says "Atom". It has a two-prong tool driver, and my 2-prong Suntour freewheel socket spun it right off. It's going to clean up nicely. The green paint on the inside face of the dropouts has a very nice luster to it, and I'm hoping the rest of the paint buffs out and polishes up to look as good.
Thanks for the heads up on the wheel sizes. I'm sure this bike was designed for either 622s or 584s, but they threw on the 630s for the US market when it was exported from France. After looking at it again, the brake track on the 630s is right at the center of the cutout in the chain stays, putting 630mm tire bulge forward of center of the frame cutout, and actually about in line with the very forward edge of the cutout. 622s would move the brake track 4mm rearward, which would make some difference. 584s move the brake track 23mm rearward, and would position it right at the rear-most edge of the cutout, and the tire bulge would probably be more or less centered in the cutout, maybe just a bit rear of center. I'd be able to get a fatter tire on it using 584s. I'll have to watch the seat stays and fork clearance also. That's a ways out from now in any event...just something for me to think about. My MAFAC brakes don't say anything but "MAFAC" on them (no "RACER"). It looks like the MAFAC "RAID" is the unit to get for 584mm conversions. I'd be able to keep my current brakes if I went to 622s. Something else for me to think about. I do think 559s would work in the frame as far as physical fit, but I'd be well inside of center on the cutout, and I'd probably be limited in tire width because I wouldn't be centered up on that cutout. The brake arms would also need to be unreasonably long...possibly so long that only the cheap stamped steel caliper brakes would reach, which is something I certainly don't want. I'll certainly go with either 584 or 622 when I do new rims.
Thanks for the heads up on the wheel sizes. I'm sure this bike was designed for either 622s or 584s, but they threw on the 630s for the US market when it was exported from France. After looking at it again, the brake track on the 630s is right at the center of the cutout in the chain stays, putting 630mm tire bulge forward of center of the frame cutout, and actually about in line with the very forward edge of the cutout. 622s would move the brake track 4mm rearward, which would make some difference. 584s move the brake track 23mm rearward, and would position it right at the rear-most edge of the cutout, and the tire bulge would probably be more or less centered in the cutout, maybe just a bit rear of center. I'd be able to get a fatter tire on it using 584s. I'll have to watch the seat stays and fork clearance also. That's a ways out from now in any event...just something for me to think about. My MAFAC brakes don't say anything but "MAFAC" on them (no "RACER"). It looks like the MAFAC "RAID" is the unit to get for 584mm conversions. I'd be able to keep my current brakes if I went to 622s. Something else for me to think about. I do think 559s would work in the frame as far as physical fit, but I'd be well inside of center on the cutout, and I'd probably be limited in tire width because I wouldn't be centered up on that cutout. The brake arms would also need to be unreasonably long...possibly so long that only the cheap stamped steel caliper brakes would reach, which is something I certainly don't want. I'll certainly go with either 584 or 622 when I do new rims.
05-24-18, 09:48 AM
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The shifters are Huret with a black plastic tab on the end. Brakes are MAFAC center pulls with MAFAC plastic-coated levers (odd).
The crank set is a 36-52, which is nice for what I want to do with it (lower speed town bike). I'm unsure of the brand, but the large ring appears to have a small image of a bicycle stamped or forged into it. The teeth seem good. Pedals spin freely and without noise.
The crank set is a 36-52, which is nice for what I want to do with it (lower speed town bike). I'm unsure of the brand, but the large ring appears to have a small image of a bicycle stamped or forged into it. The teeth seem good. Pedals spin freely and without noise.
https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g...serialNumber=2
MAFAC brake levers are model VDA
https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g...serialNumber=2
bicycle's crank arms are DURAX Course (unmarked)
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...115&AbsPos=100
chainwheels are Cyclo
https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g...serialNumber=2
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...=122&AbsPos=24
pedal set is Lyotard model Nr. 36
https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4028/...ab96297c_o.jpg
[apologies for links, new software does not permit me to post images]
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05-24-18, 11:11 AM
#13
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Wow -- I thank you tremendously for that parts list. I think you're 100% correct on all of it.
Various Peugeot catalogs say the shifters should be Simplex, and I agree that these Hurets are not original. I don't think I'll keep them as shifters. I may use the posts as bases for cable stops if I can; I will prefer thumb or bar end shifters to the down tube shifters I think. They (the Huret shifters) don't appear to be valuable as shifters, in terms of market value, so I wouldn't have any worries about converting them if possible. The Sun Bow front derailer, after more research, is absolutely not original, but it seems to work great, so I'll leave it for now.
I may even just remove the front derailer -- with my intended use of this bike, I don't think I'd ever use a 52 tooth ring. The 36 is probably all I'll ever need.
Various Peugeot catalogs say the shifters should be Simplex, and I agree that these Hurets are not original. I don't think I'll keep them as shifters. I may use the posts as bases for cable stops if I can; I will prefer thumb or bar end shifters to the down tube shifters I think. They (the Huret shifters) don't appear to be valuable as shifters, in terms of market value, so I wouldn't have any worries about converting them if possible. The Sun Bow front derailer, after more research, is absolutely not original, but it seems to work great, so I'll leave it for now.
I may even just remove the front derailer -- with my intended use of this bike, I don't think I'd ever use a 52 tooth ring. The 36 is probably all I'll ever need.
05-24-18, 12:24 PM
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Based on various data points, I believe this is a late '60s model. It appears that, prior to 1971 or so, there were no serial number stampings or plates on the bottom bracket, and that is true of this bike. The "red triangle" head badge does look to be from 1963 or so through 1970 or so. My brake calipers have "DURAL FORGE" and "MAFAC" on them (no "RACER" label) and also the red bushings which, according to this website, dates them to the late 1960s. According to this thread, they seem to be of the "long" variety, with a reach of about 55mm to about 68mm.
For my own enjoyment and amusement, I'll decide this is a 1968 model, and I'm resurrecting it for its 50th birthday.
For my own enjoyment and amusement, I'll decide this is a 1968 model, and I'm resurrecting it for its 50th birthday.
05-24-18, 12:50 PM
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WRT to shift levers -
originals would have been Simplex Prestige alloy
here are two images of the model which would have come on the bike (reddish tint due to light source - parts are silver in colour)
final year this model seen on Peugeot was 1969-70 -
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/110AA...Np/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WaIAA...N4/s-l1600.jpg
The Huret Jubilee shift levers are a valuable and sought after item. Jubilee gear ensemble popular with vintage enthusiasts.
Cycle's Simplex quick release skewers on the hubs are also sought after.
Paint finish will come up well. These finishes well applied and durable. Your example looks to be in excellent condition in relation to age.
Congratulations on this excellent find & buy!
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WRT to shift levers -
originals would have been Simplex Prestige alloy
here are two images of the model which would have come on the bike (reddish tint due to light source - parts are silver in colour)
final year this model seen on Peugeot was 1969-70 -
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/110AA...Np/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WaIAA...N4/s-l1600.jpg
The Huret Jubilee shift levers are a valuable and sought after item. Jubilee gear ensemble popular with vintage enthusiasts.
Cycle's Simplex quick release skewers on the hubs are also sought after.
Paint finish will come up well. These finishes well applied and durable. Your example looks to be in excellent condition in relation to age.
Congratulations on this excellent find & buy!
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05-24-18, 01:40 PM
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Forgot to mention -
[new forum software prevents me from using "edit" function so must make separate message]
Saddle appear it may be ADGA brand. Does not show up very well in photos. Possible it may be the model Nr. 240:
https://forum.tontonvelo.com/download...9174&mode=view
https://forum.tontonvelo.com/download...9175&mode=view
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The bicycle's rear wheel appears to be a replacement. Its five-piece hub would not have been original. OEM would have been a Normandy Sport QR hub with a one-piece alloy shell.
Your dating is spot on!
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Forgot to mention -
[new forum software prevents me from using "edit" function so must make separate message]
Saddle appear it may be ADGA brand. Does not show up very well in photos. Possible it may be the model Nr. 240:
https://forum.tontonvelo.com/download...9174&mode=view
https://forum.tontonvelo.com/download...9175&mode=view
---
The bicycle's rear wheel appears to be a replacement. Its five-piece hub would not have been original. OEM would have been a Normandy Sport QR hub with a one-piece alloy shell.
Your dating is spot on!
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05-24-18, 06:18 PM
#17
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Man, you have a sharp eye. Indeed, the rear rim is definitely different from the front. In fact, it's a "DEA" steel rim, which appears to be correct for the period and, from your description, it sounds like the entire rear wheel was changed out at some point. I do not believe the DEA rim is original, either, so this all makes sense.
I'd have never believed it, but 559mm rims seem to physically fit best in the frame with regard to the chain stay cutout and tire bulge. I inserted a front 559mm wheel and tire (100mm hub) into the rear of this bike, and the widest part of the tire bulge lined up with the deepest part of the cutout just about perfectly. Brake reach with this setup looks to be about 100mm, which is nearly unworkable, so this probably isn't a viable solution, but it's sort of puzzling. These are the 559s (with 54mm tires):
IMG_20180524_194428690 (1) by jnjadcock, on Flickr
IMG_20180524_194416050 by jnjadcock, on Flickr
Unfortunately, 622s aren't going to work very well. I inserted a front 622mm wheel, with a 38mm tire, in the rear of this frame and I had tire rub on the frame in front of the cutout. In the first picture below, if you look through the lateral tube and down to the chain stay, you can see the tire against the stay, forward of the cutout. The second picture is the left side stay. No rub here (so I don't have the tire exactly centered), but it tells me the 622 wheels won't be ideal, either. I'd want to run at least 38-40mm tires, and I'll just not have the space in this frame for those.
IMG_20180524_193637842_LL by jnjadcock, on Flickr
IMG_20180524_193604433_LL by jnjadcock, on Flickr
Maybe a happy medium will be the 584mm rims.
Brake reach with 559s: ~100mm
Brake reach with 584s: ~85mm
Brake reach with 622s: ~68mm
It looks like most "long reach" brake calipers top out at about 73-75mm. I'll have to do some more thinking on it.
I'll get some better pictures of the complete bike, and then I'll probably start a thread about it in the main C&V forum. I think I've figured out the value of this bike by now, and you guys have been super helpful and deserve to see the whole thing.
I'd have never believed it, but 559mm rims seem to physically fit best in the frame with regard to the chain stay cutout and tire bulge. I inserted a front 559mm wheel and tire (100mm hub) into the rear of this bike, and the widest part of the tire bulge lined up with the deepest part of the cutout just about perfectly. Brake reach with this setup looks to be about 100mm, which is nearly unworkable, so this probably isn't a viable solution, but it's sort of puzzling. These are the 559s (with 54mm tires):
IMG_20180524_194428690 (1) by jnjadcock, on Flickr
IMG_20180524_194416050 by jnjadcock, on Flickr
Unfortunately, 622s aren't going to work very well. I inserted a front 622mm wheel, with a 38mm tire, in the rear of this frame and I had tire rub on the frame in front of the cutout. In the first picture below, if you look through the lateral tube and down to the chain stay, you can see the tire against the stay, forward of the cutout. The second picture is the left side stay. No rub here (so I don't have the tire exactly centered), but it tells me the 622 wheels won't be ideal, either. I'd want to run at least 38-40mm tires, and I'll just not have the space in this frame for those.
IMG_20180524_193637842_LL by jnjadcock, on Flickr
IMG_20180524_193604433_LL by jnjadcock, on Flickr
Maybe a happy medium will be the 584mm rims.
Brake reach with 559s: ~100mm
Brake reach with 584s: ~85mm
Brake reach with 622s: ~68mm
It looks like most "long reach" brake calipers top out at about 73-75mm. I'll have to do some more thinking on it.
I'll get some better pictures of the complete bike, and then I'll probably start a thread about it in the main C&V forum. I think I've figured out the value of this bike by now, and you guys have been super helpful and deserve to see the whole thing.
05-25-18, 06:16 AM
#18
05-25-18, 06:48 AM
#19
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Are there any markings on the barrel of rear hub?
"New Star" perhaps?
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Are there any markings on the barrel of rear hub?
"New Star" perhaps?
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05-25-18, 06:57 PM
#20
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I've started a thread with many more pictures here.
Cheers!
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