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The future of C&V

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The future of C&V

Old 02-08-16, 06:25 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Great question. I think oddjob has it right. There are a lot of younger buyers of these bikes who appreciate the workmanship of these bikes.

+3 Half my vintage bike buyers are younger than the bike. They just like the style, construction, aesthetics. I think there will always be a good market for lugged steel framed bikes.

While most vintage MTBs have not gone up in value (there are EXCEPTIONS!), parts off these vintage MTBs are doing quite well. My next bike project is to dismantle one I built last year. The thumb shifters and crankset alone bring more than the complete bike! Have you seen the prices on Suntour bear trap pedals lately? I've already moved the wheels and tires to another project. And some vintage rigid steel mtbs, think bi-planer forks, solid chrome frames, roller cams, etc., are starting to do very well.

That Specialized Hard Rock is not a rigid frame, with a mediocre suspension front fork, those are still dropping in value around here.

Heck, the High Sierra wasn't even the top Schwinn model that year!

Vintage Schwinn High Sierra 19" Mountain Bike 1987 Black Chrome 4130 RARE | eBay

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Old 02-08-16, 07:08 PM
  #27  
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Demand and supply will increase the value of unaltered C&V framesets. So many times i see a fantastic C&V frame converted to fixie/single speed by having the brazedon shifter mounts, front derailler mount, chainstay cable guide and rear derailler hanger cut off. Thus the supply of C&V frames for restoration is drying up and therefore the remaining ones should go up in value. We're seeing some of that already as some C&V frames are selling for more than they did new.

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Old 02-08-16, 07:16 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
+1

Here in Portland you can find at least one place with barbers, young guys who will give you an old fashioned straight-edge razor shave. Old is new here.
+1 PORTLANDIA

But, I'd rather have a young women give me a close shave, just like her.
She'd probably like a ride on my Crescent too!

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Old 02-08-16, 07:18 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by stardognine View Post
Amen to the tree-hugger kids. I think single speeds will eventually die out though, once people understand the strength of the mighty 6-speed rear wheel. All the problems started when people got greedy, & wanted 7 speeds, then 8, then 9, etc. And you can compete for your C-Record all you want, just give me my Suntour.
Amen to all the above!
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Old 02-08-16, 07:34 PM
  #30  
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My crystal ball on the C&V future market remains very murky. Very hard to determine the future. On one hand, you do have a few younger adult groups who are interested in C&V bikes. One is the group of nuovo hipsters/Millennials who seemdd to adopt the old, but were mostly adopting things non-mainstream that they can tag as their own. Not uncommon, in fact, every generation does this. The coffee, Paul Bunyan clothes, and old bicycles are their "statements". As soon as any of these reach main stream, as may be the case with "fixie's", the objects, and the ideals surrounding them, will be discarded for the new, as is the way with fashion. And the next generation will most likely discard the previous generations likes, for likes of their own. Millennials may represent the last of overt consumers, though they try to hide and deny it. The next group, the Plurals, well, they are more pragmatic. Most of them grew up playing way more video games, watching way more you-tube, and riding bikes way less. This generation does have a strong link to practical and useful things, which bicycles, especially C&V ones, very much are. Their "world" and "childhood" is fragmented. I was talking with my neighbors daughter (a Plural)... she had watched every episode of MASH over the summer, and she had no one to discuss it with. None of her friends watched it with her; none of here friends had any interest in it at all. This generation doesn't have a strong emotional bond with anything from their childhood, because so much "culture" is available to them. I don't really see this generation hording (that's what collecting is, essentially, even if it's for future or later use). So you have a generation not into physical "stuff", with not much of a connection to bicycling. Very cloudy.
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Old 02-08-16, 07:39 PM
  #31  
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The Alpha hipsters were I work switched from fixed gears to vintage road bikes last year - the rest will soon follow....
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Old 02-08-16, 07:42 PM
  #32  
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The early Stumpy's (83-84) and their parts are already collectible. Some of the early steel frames, a Marin Pine Mountain for example, is quite desireable. The late 90's into the early 2000s saw some of the 26" MTB technology reach it's peak and the frame and tire size go in new directions. Another example would be the early steel Salsa stems, quill or threadless, which bring better prices than their alloy cousins.
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Old 02-08-16, 07:54 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I don't know if there will ever be much of a market for vintage MTBs but I kind of like it that way. Two of my best Craigslist finds were vintage mtbs that I now use as almost daily riders, a 1988 stumpjumper comp and a 1992 trek 950. They're great bikes and I paid $125 for each of those bikes. I just hope the market doesn't figure this out.
High end vintage MTB is through the roof right now, mid to low end is still not valued... it's not unlike being able to get a middle of the road columbus alelle frame for $50, a basic MTB is worth $50-$250 depending on condition and market. But a fat chance? Yeti? High end rocky mountain? different story. Now the custom CNC parts which have mostly broken from the early 1990s, worth their weight in gold.
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Old 02-08-16, 07:55 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by oddjob2 View Post
+1 PORTLANDIA

But, I'd rather have a young women give me a close shave, just like her.
She'd probably like a ride on my Crescent too!
Hey, we got that too!
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Old 02-08-16, 08:21 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
High end vintage MTB is through the roof right now, mid to low end is still not valued... it's not unlike being able to get a middle of the road columbus alelle frame for $50, a basic MTB is worth $50-$250 depending on condition and market. But a fat chance? Yeti? High end rocky mountain? different story. Now the custom CNC parts which have mostly broken from the early 1990s, worth their weight in gold.
We're talking apples and oranges. The high end production vintage mtbs from companies like specialized and trek aren't worth much. Some of the b'stones are worth a bit more. Take a top end specialized mtb from the most of the 80s and compare it to a similar specialized road bike or do the same calculation with a trek. Very different prices for road and mtb. Like I said, they're not worth much. Thrifty Bill got it right in post no. 26 above.

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Old 02-08-16, 08:26 PM
  #36  
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Not worth much but the big city co-op's are eating that stuff up for commuter builds
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Old 02-08-16, 08:35 PM
  #37  
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Sure, hard to beat a vintage mtb for a commuter build and part of the reason why is they don't go for much; the other part is that they're fine bikes.
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Old 02-08-16, 08:50 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by stardognine View Post
Amen to the tree-hugger kids. I think single speeds will eventually die out though, once people understand the strength of the mighty 6-speed rear wheel. All the problems started when people got greedy, & wanted 7 speeds, then 8, then 9, etc. And you can compete for your C-Record all you want, just give me my Suntour.
This.
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Old 02-08-16, 08:56 PM
  #39  
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I don't feel that the technological evolution that is currently underway in (mainstream) cycling is producing unsupportable machines, 10/11 speed, electronic shifting, parts becoming obsolete.

Small companies can and do tool up and produce (Or have them made overseas) C&V style parts because the technology had hit a happy plateau between functionality and durability. In 30/40 years we could still be seeing C&V replacement parts being produced, but we won't see many 2015 Carbon bikes rolling around.
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Old 02-08-16, 09:29 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by uncle uncle View Post
On one hand, you do have a few younger adult groups who are interested in C&V bikes.

<snip>

And the next generation will most likely discard the previous generations likes, for likes of their own.
You just brought up the correct point. "Next generation" "always" discards the previous generation's likes. People tell me in the 1960s, everyone was imaging "Western" stuff was going to be the collectible stuff of the future, and everyone was hoarding anything relating to cowboy "Western" stuff. Evidently, kids didn't take to their parent's appreciation of this (what is now) garbage.

What we have though, is this uncanny situation where the "next generation" actually likes the SAME STUFF as the previous generation. People growing up liking 1980s road bikes are being joined by the "next generation" of today, who didn't grow up with them. What other hobbies would kill for that? Again, not ALL young kids today are interested in these bikes, but enough them certainly seem to, at least IMO, and certainly far more as a percentage than in other dying hobbies.
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Old 02-08-16, 09:33 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Sure, hard to beat a vintage mtb for a commuter build and part of the reason why is they don't go for much; the other part is that they're fine bikes.
So, for MTBs, is the problem the shift from level top tubes to sloping top tubes?

I suppose it shouldn't make a big difference, but for something like a touring/trekking bike, the level top tubes may be preferable.

It would be easy to mistake my "MTB" commuter for a road bike

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Old 02-08-16, 09:40 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by armstrong101 View Post
You just brought up the correct point. "Next generation" "always" discards the previous generation's likes. People tell me in the 1960s, everyone was imaging "Western" stuff was going to be the collectible stuff of the future, and everyone was hoarding anything relating to cowboy "Western" stuff. Evidently, kids didn't take to their parent's appreciation of this (what is now) garbage.

What we have though, is this uncanny situation where the "next generation" actually likes the SAME STUFF as the previous generation. People growing up liking 1980s road bikes are being joined by the "next generation" of today, who didn't grow up with them. What other hobbies would kill for that? Again, not ALL young kids today are interested in these bikes, but enough them certainly seem to, at least IMO, and certainly far more as a percentage than in other dying hobbies.
Maybe.

My niece is perfectly happy to ride her grandmother's bike when she visits. She won't touch a drop bar road bike (boys bike ). And I may build her a nice Mixte sometime.

I'm working on getting my nephew interested in road bikes. And, while I'm diverging from my "roots", his father still owns an ancient Raleigh road bike, as well as now dad's (the nephew's grandfather's) bike.

So, yes...
The MTB craze might diverge from the previous generation (or couple of generations) of road warriors. But, there is a lot to be said of like father, like son.
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Old 02-09-16, 06:41 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
So, for MTBs, is the problem the shift from level top tubes to sloping top tubes?

I suppose it shouldn't make a big difference, but for something like a touring/trekking bike, the level top tubes may be preferable.

It would be easy to mistake my "MTB" commuter for a road bike

That's a fine looking bike; what is it?

I don't know if the shift from level to sloping tubes makes much of a difference in terms of a bike's utility as an all rounder. I like sloping top tube. MTBs just evolved in terms of the geometry and equipment and became better for their intended use offroad. Vintage mtbs without a suspension fork are just fine all rounders. When posters come into the C&V valuation forum looking for a commuter, we always suggest a vintage mtb because of price and functionality.

When vintage road bikes took off in terms of price, that craze just didn't hit the mtbs. I'm not sure why. There are a lot more of them out there which may be part of the reason. That isn't true for the ones from the early 80s which is probably part of the reason why they have gone up in price; the same would be true of the mtbs from custom makers. I have 3 high end production mtbs (a 1988 specialized stumpjumper comp, a 1991 specialized team stumpjumper, and a 1992 Trek 950) and I know none of them are worth much.

No one would ever confuse my Trek 950 for anything other than a mtb; here it is in its natural environment, :

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Old 02-09-16, 11:29 AM
  #44  
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Difficult to predict. One can get a rather impressive modern efficient bike for a grand. That's about the average rate for a 70's-80's era upper end high quality steel bike. The modern bike will depreciate in value but the vintage will hold, but does that really matter to the younger generation?

If and when we pass them on, we can only hope as the next steward they appreciate these bikes. Next, will the following generation have the means to afford, let alone the room to keep?

My experiment. For some of the kids, I've been working on a few vintage bikes with a theme, story and bit of history curiosity. Built with good old period parts, strict budget, lower price than the highest priced Walmart bike. Nothing for the purist collector yet I think neat enough with bright color and significant pro team or rider connection. They can do a quick online search and relate their bike to a piece of cycling history. Something not possible with the average bike.

I also realize the window of opportunity is short. Kids lose interest fast and quickly jump on other fads. My hope is they can join in a few C&V ride events and catch the fun. If not, won't push it.

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Old 02-09-16, 05:56 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I feel like someone starts this thread every year or so...
Would've been me the last 2 years. Here are the 2014 and 2015 threads.

10-09-14 https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...iasts-c-v.html
05-19-15 https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ill-cheap.html
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Old 02-09-16, 06:49 PM
  #46  
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No shortage of detailed opinions :-). With reading through.... I think it is tough to predict exactly where it will go, but overall bikes are pretty high in the hierarchy of wants and needs. Transportation means, entertainment, exercise and art. IMO, the latter I believe applies even more to C&V due to details, hand made and limited numbers.

We'll see if that changes in the 2017 thread, the future!
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Old 02-09-16, 07:14 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by armstrong101 View Post
A few factors contributing to continuing C&V value.
1. People who grew up in the 60s-80s who liked to cycle, now have the money to buy their grails. . . .
Yup. That's me.
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Old 02-09-16, 07:29 PM
  #48  
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I think it comes down to appreciations of the simple classic bike design, whether it is an old or new. For me anyway, something about a classic triangle frame, in lugged steel with quill stem and either a drop bar stylem"english racer", or even 80's MTB style is simple design elegance and proportions.

modern bikes, road or mountain are highly functional, but in general ugly

I think as long as people appreciate the style, there will be appreciation and interest and production of classic bikes. and some of this will also be interest in vintage.

and perhaps a bit idiosyncratically, I am totally ok with brifters/sti, dual pivot brakes, etc as they fit with the design.
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Old 02-09-16, 10:24 PM
  #49  
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The fixed gear craze continues to soften... I have already seen kits to turn your fixed gear, (with road or track dropouts, adaptors provided) into a 6 speed bike, assuming 120mm spacing...
There may not be mobs waiting anxiously at the framebuilder's to correct prior deeds, but that will happen.
Friction shifting will be the new "skill"... To master, who needs index... Forget electronic shifting, friction is more reliable.
Bar end controls will be a hit again, for those who just are too worried about moving the hands from the bars...
Bicylcles become the icon of freedom, no "driverless" car syndrome of sliding incompetence.
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Old 02-10-16, 01:05 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by stardognine View Post
Amen to the tree-hugger kids. I think single speeds will eventually die out though, once people understand the strength of the mighty 6-speed rear wheel. All the problems started when people got greedy, & wanted 7 speeds, then 8, then 9, etc. And you can compete for your C-Record all you want, just give me my Suntour.
Suntour, Campy, big S it's all good! Nothing French though, except Mavic.
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