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Another JOCO comes to town

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Another JOCO comes to town

Old 01-29-17, 04:01 PM
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Another JOCO comes to town

To this global village, that is. JOCOs don't come up for sale very often, and when they do they're always too small for me. So when this barn find appeared in the local classifieds in what looked like a decent size, I gave the seller a call and had it in the back of my trusted WJ one hour and forty-five minutes later.

JOCO
The JOCO company was established in 1919 in Amsterdam by Matheus Antionius ('Toon') de Jonge (de JOnge & CO) as a repair shop. Bicycle manufacturing started in 1924. In the 1950s, when the shop in Amsterdam became too expensive, the operation moved to Hilversum. It seems that they stopped selling their own brand somewhere during the sixties, when the company switched to become the importer for Mercier.
JOCO bikes were among the best one could buy, BITD, and probably also the most expensive.

This bike is a "Ronde van Europa". That model name appeared both on touring bikes and racing machines. It looks like a 1950's frame that has been updated in the sixties, maybe early seventies. I'm quite happy that the derailleur hanger is still there, as most have been cut off since then to be able to fit a more modern derailleur. It has Atom hubs with steel rims, an Atom four-speed freewheel, Weinmann Vainqueur brakes and levers, Titan bar and stem and a Titan seat post. Cranks are Stronglight Competitions.

I'm still trying find out if there's any significance in the serial number. From what I've seen so far the first digit may be the last digit of the build year, so in this case 1958, or maybe even 1948, as the Reynolds decal seems to be an early one, according to Classic Lightweights.

I'm also trying to find out how this bike was originally equipped. If it had a front derailleur, it would probably have been one with a suicide shifter, as there's only one braze-on on the down tube.













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Old 01-29-17, 04:47 PM
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That is pretty. Good taste in bikes and vehicles.
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Old 01-29-17, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bikerider007
That is pretty. Good taste in bikes and vehicles.
Thanks. The car's in better shape than the bike, though.
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Old 01-29-17, 06:00 PM
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Nice bike with the colour, box lining and the chrome lugs! You really do find some interesting projects that bring more history to light.
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Old 01-29-17, 08:16 PM
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non-fixie reels in yet another treasure!

will be lots of fun for you to do the continuing research.

lugset looks to be Nervex 48/161, crown Vagner PC, shell Nervex with cut nr. 161.

chainset Verot 55 but bottom bracket something else. find it slightly odd that fixed cup painted.

Weinmann set: a bit unusual that neither levers nor hangers exhibit a quick release.

what be number marked on drive side of seat tube?

what be Toon's peds?

serial: between the two proposed birth years definitely voting for MCMLVIII.

serial speculation: wonder if possible it could indicate twenty-fourth machine produced in august of fifty-nine.

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Old 01-30-17, 12:40 AM
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Thanks for the feedback and the additional information. Much appreciated!

The number on the seat tube is a crudely engraved PO's address code. Thought to be a good anti-theft measure. Maybe it was, but it doesn't do much for the paint job.

I haven't recognized the pedals yet. Perhaps cleaning them will reveal a name.
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Old 02-01-17, 05:43 PM
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Hello non-fixie,

Have you been able to learn any additional information regarding this most excellent new arrival?

You wondered about the possibility of two plateau gearing. If it had been fitted it would have employed the Competition model rod front mech. Such a fitment would have left marks on the seat tube's finish which appear to be lacking. Another check is spindle length. As mentioned above the bottom bracket set is not the usual model 34 Verot companion for the Competition 55 chainset. In the Verot set the spindle length for single plateau gearing is 125mm. A further check would be to examine the chainline. If the chainwheel lines up in the middle of the 4V block that would seem to be it.

Likely original mech candidates would be 543 and TdF. The former would be great but of staggering cost at market value. Clearly the current Prestige rear mech and white delrin shift lever are too late for the bike.

Looking forward to the next datum uppum.

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Old 02-01-17, 05:50 PM
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Bikes were often sold with just the rear changer and no FD, more common in '50s than later days. Haven't seen that particular Simplex DO before: is it a semi-vertical DO or just angled more than a typical horizontal would be? And are they a variant Nervex head lug or another brand?
Nice bike!!
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Old 02-02-17, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela
You wondered about the possibility of two plateau gearing. If it had been fitted it would have employed the Competition model rod front mech. Such a fitment would have left marks on the seat tube's finish which appear to be lacking.
There marks on the seat tube, but they're hard to see. They're roughly at the level where you'd expect them for a Competition lever, but the shape and wear pattern look wrong. Perhaps from a bottle holder or a pump peg?

Originally Posted by juvela
Another check is spindle length. As mentioned above the bottom bracket set is not the usual model 34 Verot companion for the Competition 55 chainset. In the Verot set the spindle length for single plateau gearing is 125mm. A further check would be to examine the chainline. If the chainwheel lines up in the middle of the 4V block that would seem to be it.
The spindle is about 130mm, and there's no room for an extra inner chainring. There are some grazing marks on the chainstay that suggest it has been equipped with a ring that was closer than this one. The chainline looks fairly decent.

Originally Posted by juvela
Likely original mech candidates would be 543 and TdF. The former would be great but of staggering cost at market value. Clearly the current Prestige rear mech and white delrin shift lever are too late for the bike.
I have a TdF RD, as well as a Competition FD waiting for a project. Both are NOS, so maybe a little too shiny for this particular one ...
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Old 02-02-17, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
Bikes were often sold with just the rear changer and no FD, more common in '50s than later days. Haven't seen that particular Simplex DO before: is it a semi-vertical DO or just angled more than a typical horizontal would be? And are they a variant Nervex head lug or another brand?
Nice bike!!
Indeed, it seems that these Simplex drop-outs had a slightly bigger slant to them than the Campagnolo examples of that period. I wouldn't go as far as to call them semi-vertical.

I think [MENTION=333224]juvela[/MENTION] was spot-on with the lug identification: Nervex 48/161. Thanks for that. About the fork crown, however, I'm less confident. There's a definite ridge on the top, and I've seen other JOCO examples with EKLA "Extra Light" crowns, so I suspect this might be an EKLA "H", rather than a Vagner.
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Old 02-02-17, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
Indeed, it seems that these Simplex drop-outs had a slightly bigger slant to them than the Campagnolo examples of that period. I wouldn't go as far as to call them semi-vertical.

I think [MENTION=333224]juvela[/MENTION] was spot-on with the lug identification: Nervex 48/161. Thanks for that. About the fork crown, however, I'm less confident. There's a definite ridge on the top, and I've seen other JOCO examples with EKLA "Extra Light" crowns, so I suspect this might be an EKLA "H", rather than a Vagner.
Thanks for the information on the crown non-fixie. From the photo I had thought that the V was simply painted on. Vagner has/had a secondary way of designating their crowns if they were flat toppers with the V design in the top. This is indicated in their literature with a + symbol. Hence the correct designation for Herr Joco's corona would be
PC+ if Vagner it be. If you think it an EKLA H you are the person on the scene and we are speaking about a low countries machine so it is logical it might come with a low countries fork topper. Suspect you will be able to determine by comparing the V on the crown to the catalogue illustrations available online. The EKLA V has a longer and narrower look than does the Vagner.

Going back to spindle length. The Lucien chart for the 34 bottom bracket assembly states unequivocally that your length is intended for a two plateau application. But we, as of this time, know only that your fittings are not Verot, not what they actually be. Have you discovered as yet any markings on the cups? The painted fixed I still find puzzling.

Any news regarding pedal provenace?

Have you as yet identified machine's head fittings? In the photos the stack of the north is well esconded by the carillion.

Have you given any thought to the wheels for the build? Since it is clear it came with frankish chainset and gears perhaps it would have been fitted with frankish moyeaux as well. One interesting contemporaneous possibility was the Plume from Etablissements Perrin:

VeloBase.com - Component: Pelissier Plume (low flange)

Or perhaps the firm's deux oiseaux:

VeloBase.com - Component: Pelissier (twin bird logo & CP on hub shell, no oil hole)

All best wishes with Herr Toon and thanks for the update.

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Old 02-03-17, 12:41 AM
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Thanks, [MENTION=333224]juvela[/MENTION]. It seems I've got my work for this weekend cut out for me.

The pedals look to be Sheffield Sprint copies, but I haven't identified the actual brand yet.
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Old 02-04-17, 03:54 PM
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Had a look at the pedals today. I can't find any identifying marks. I checked it against the Speedplay collection, and the closest match I could find was a '40's OMT pedal, on which I haven't been able to find any more information yet.



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Old 02-04-17, 04:46 PM
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That non-fixie: always well ahead of me!

Was going to post a suggestion regarding a visitation to Il Museo Di Speedplay.

Do both pedals lack their dustcaps? Sometimes cap details can be an identification aid.

Are they 9/16" X 20F?

That plate pattern used in UK as well as Italia e Francia.

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Old 02-06-17, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela
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That non-fixie: always well ahead of me!

Was going to post a suggestion regarding a visitation to Il Museo Di Speedplay.

Do both pedals lack their dustcaps? Sometimes cap details can be an identification aid.

Are they 9/16" X 20F?

That plate pattern used in UK as well as Italia e Francia.

-----
Alas, no dustcaps. Will have to check size with known pedals as there's no indication on the hardware itself I can see. They do spin very smoothly, though.

I have been playing around a bit over the weekend, cleaning up the bike and trying out some ideas for a build:



I found a nice pair of wheels in my stash - Normandy hubs laced to Weinmann 'Type Weltmeister' rims - but ran into a bit of an issue: the axles don't fit the Agrati fork ends.

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Old 02-06-17, 02:21 PM
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Thanks for the update non-fixie!

Mismatched ends - we just had that on the guyadois Rattray. His are Juy stern paired with 1010 bow.

Hope those moyeaux have the oil hole.

Headset appears P3-ish. Is locknut octagonal or round?

Handsome beastie!

Look forward to your next signal.

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Old 02-06-17, 02:59 PM
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The hubs are Luxe Competitions, gold label. No oil hole, AFIK:



The jeu de direction is a Lightrace:

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Old 02-06-17, 03:03 PM
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BTW, what's the deal with those Agrati fork ends? Were they designed for smaller axles or was the frame builder supposed to finish them to fit?
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Old 02-06-17, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
BTW, what's the deal with those Agrati fork ends? Were they designed for smaller axles or was the frame builder supposed to finish them to fit?
Thanks very much for the additional information.

Made for solid axle.

Many is the time have had to open some axle slots to accommodate an axle hollow.

Hubs about fifteen years too late for cycle.

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Old 02-06-17, 03:49 PM
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Yes, I know the hubs are newer, but I could live with that for now. I also have another wheel set somewhere with low flange Fratelli Brivio 'Extra Luxury' hubs, that may be more appropriate, but there the problem is the other way around: they are laced to seventies' NISI TORO clincher rims.

Decisions, decisions ...
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Old 02-06-17, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
Yes, I know the hubs are newer, but I could live with that for now. I also have another wheel set somewhere with low flange Fratelli Brivio 'Extra Luxury' hubs, that may be more appropriate, but there the problem is the other way around: they are laced to seventies' NISI TORO clincher rims.

Decisions, decisions ...
...you could always leave him "in suspenders" until a promising pair of round things makes itself apparent upon the horizon...
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Old 02-08-17, 03:45 PM
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Try #2. For a nicer pair of suspenders: the Brivio Bros hubs and NISI rims. Look-wise they're fine, and I have some super light Gommitalia Targa clinchers (170 grams) with real caoutchouc inner tubes (75 grams), that should bring the weight close to the tubulars. And at €65 per wheel I expect nothing less than a heavenly ride.



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Old 02-08-17, 06:19 PM
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I want to know about the white shifter, is it Simplex like the derailleur and still in usable shape?

Like the build as you are playing with it!
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Old 02-09-17, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow
I want to know about the white shifter, is it Simplex like the derailleur and still in usable shape?

Like the build as you are playing with it!
Thanks! WRT the shifter: it is a Simplex and it does still work, but the plastic is probably very brittle. The remnants of the plastic wingnut pulverized at the first touch.
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Old 02-09-17, 12:21 AM
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From closeup photo of fork end it would seem likely machine departed works with solid axle mozzi. If you went that route it would give an opportunity to fit some unusual and interesting asymmetric wingnuts.

No doubt those jantes will be full of bull.

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