Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Cinelli SC Monza

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Cinelli SC Monza

Old 06-10-22, 03:28 AM
  #51  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 11,316

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 223 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3538 Post(s)
Liked 3,769 Times in 2,309 Posts
I do my best to scoop up any deals I can be it a bike or tires, rarely pay retail, live for the deal and shop my azz off as much as I can.

Walked into Bike Tires Direct a few weeks ago and they had some Conti 26in NOS tires with a small reflective strip on the sidewall, not my thing but at $5 each x 6 they will be used and save $$$ on projects where they can be used, a set ended up on the Ritchey for the time being.

The flip side is many bikes and parts that I have paid top dollar for, wanted and had to have them so no time wasted buying them, so be it.

Much of this allows something like the chrome Ritchey being assembled with almost all in stock parts that were stockpiled on my timetable for prices that were much better than getting them for a project as needed.

I am certain I could systematically sell off plenty of my "collection" of parts and bikes for plenty of profit and probably should, especially instead of continuing to buy more.

Not going to happen anytime soon unless it has to, to move some projects forward, we'll see.
merziac is online now  
Likes For merziac:
Old 06-10-22, 05:49 AM
  #52  
purebikes 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
purebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
You missed my point.
if you had been upfront, bought the bike, ignoring the actual price, but noting it was a significant amount and you May not keep it, but wish to know more, fair enough, truthful possibly and most if not all comments would have been provided anyway.

the "my size" comment at the onset does imply personal appeal. The appeal it turns out is the lure for easy money. So it goes.

I was not deceitful. If you implied something from what I wrote then that is your fault. Again, if this wasn't in "my size" I wouldn't have bought it. Most likely I will be holding onto it for a while and will get to enjoy it , I mean have you seen how much I am asking for it on Ebay. So it goes.
__________________
Bikes are cool, even the dumb ones.
purebikes is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 05:52 AM
  #53  
purebikes 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
purebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
Well that's going to really bring the price down, isn't it?
Perhaps, but I doubt the story is true. I did email Cupertino bike shop, which used to be owned by Spence Wolf, and see if they had any information. On their website it says that they have records back to the 50's so maybe there is something there.
__________________
Bikes are cool, even the dumb ones.
purebikes is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 07:24 AM
  #54  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,994
Mentioned: 121 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2619 Post(s)
Liked 1,622 Times in 1,199 Posts
Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
I was not deceitful. If you implied something from what I wrote then that is your fault. Again, if this wasn't in "my size" I wouldn't have bought it. Most likely I will be holding onto it for a while and will get to enjoy it , I mean have you seen how much I am asking for it on Ebay. So it goes.
getting a bit defensive.
the price you paid and what you are asking are not that important.
perhaps In an order of magnitude, possibly.
my hunch you paid too much, if the reported price paid is accurate.

Campagnolo does not accept neglect without penalty, but better than most, the bike is 60+ years old, a decent chance the bearings have never been serviced, or last were a number of decades ago. I have bought bikes in similar state of disuse, about 50/50 for serious parts replacements being required. Hopefully it does not have the odd 74 mm wide bottom bracket and the spindle requires replacement. Cinelli and Masi employed those for a bit about then.

Riding it without a complete service risks damage.
until then it is wall art.

The eBay listing will no doubt delineate that the days of the freely spending buyer are gone for now.
repechage is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 07:40 AM
  #55  
cb400bill
Forum Moderator
 
cb400bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,609

Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR gravel Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2806 Post(s)
Liked 4,879 Times in 2,888 Posts
It is time now to turn back to talking ONLY about the bike in question and not the OP's intent.

Thank you.
__________________
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Fenders protect you from tire splatter. Mudguards protect you from tyre splatter.







cb400bill is offline  
Likes For cb400bill:
Old 06-10-22, 08:03 AM
  #56  
purebikes 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
purebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
It is time now to turn back to talking ONLY about the bike in question and not the OP's intent.

Thank you.
Thanks Bill. I will most likely just start another thread since this one is now filled with nonsense.

(Edit: On second thought, we should just keep this one. I will add it's contents to the history of the bike)
__________________
Bikes are cool, even the dumb ones.

Last edited by purebikes; 06-10-22 at 08:14 AM.
purebikes is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 08:12 AM
  #57  
purebikes 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
purebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
Back to the matter at hand, and just to re-cap all the back and forth above: I am seeking knowledge on this bike for my benefit and everyone else's, I bought it for 2k, I am trying to sell it for substantially more than that on Ebay. Any help is appreciated.

So it has been brought to my attention that this might be a "fake" Monza. Apparently there were some fakes made in a French shop in the 70's with original decals. The story goes that they took some Cinell SC's, repainted them and badged them as Monza's. They even went as far as to paint the chromed head lugs. They were red like this one with the white headtube, which Cinelli apparently never did.

This brings up so many questions in my mind. This would only make sense if Monza's were more popular that the standard SC's. But, if that were the case, then why did they lose popularity to the point where no one remembers them or why they were made? I would think that if they were popular in the 70's then there would at least be more info on them today. Also, why would you paint a chromed head lug when you were already going to paint the head tube a different color. This doesn't save any masking time or expedite the paint.

(Edit) Also this was somehow associated with the Spence Wolf at Cupertino Bike Shop having sold some original Monza decals to a guy in France. So if he had original Monza decals and was a seller/importer of Cinelli, couldn't just have been that he had the Monza badges made for him? I mean if the story were true... But why would a French guy want the decals in the late 70's to make fakes?

Anyway, just another mystery to add to the pile, which is why I like finding and working on classic bikes.
Does anyone have any knowledge of these Fake Monzas or French Jobby Monza? Sounds like some juicy international bike espionage and I want to know more.
__________________
Bikes are cool, even the dumb ones.
purebikes is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 08:23 AM
  #58  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
 
Kabuki12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ventura County ,California
Posts: 2,643

Bikes: 71 Stella,72 Mondia Special,72 ItalVega Grand Rallye, 73 Windsor Pro,75 Colnago Super,76 Kabuki DF,77 Raleigh Comp.GS,78 Raleigh Pro,80 Moto Gran Sprint,82 Medici Pro Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 627 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times in 842 Posts
Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
Does anyone have any knowledge of these Fake Monzas or French Jobby Monza? Sounds like some juicy international bike espionage and I want to know more.
The only "juicy gossip" surrounding Cinelli that I know of is the counterfeit bikes made from Windsor , but that is a whole other story! Until seeing your great bike I had never even heard of this particular model. Joe
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 09:49 AM
  #59  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,994
Mentioned: 121 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2619 Post(s)
Liked 1,622 Times in 1,199 Posts
Measure the bottom bracket width.
if 74 mm that would go a long way to dispel rumors of a counterfeit.
repechage is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 10:06 AM
  #60  
bbbob
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 64

Bikes: Bianco porteur

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 25 Posts
Wait, the 74mm shell versions are fine, which it looks like the "bike in question" has. Besides the oh so exotic 10 extra non matching cluttering 0.0137" thick letter decals a Z, an A, a M, an O, and an N, the mighty red machine is a completely normal, mundane even, SC. IMHO the elimination of the chrome head lugs (for whatever fashion reason) is a minus Not a plus (what were they thinking, less bling = mo betta?). Having a chrome seat lug w/o chrome head lugs is a fashion whoopsy IMHO. So shoot me. What's impressive to me, is that it's all there and did NOT get the Universal 61 cancer. It's a tight window, pre 61's yet post lug change from the previous type. About a year. The headset is extra cool, been looking for one for ever.

I grew up near Cupertino Bike shop. I bought my first helmet at age 15 from Spence, a dorky orange and black Kucharic, and got hit by a van on the way to buy it!
Survived, obviously. But throughout this era, I never saw one Monza labeled SC that came through Spence. I don't think any did.

What we know is that there are examples of both late 50's versions and early 60's. We know that the frames are SCs Not Bs or embodying ANY other exotic frame feature whatsof#$kingever.
Therefore (says the mansplaining man to men) it's purely a marketing gimmick, or some superficial "exclusivity" done to keep a dealer or importer happy that his painted and chromed steel item is.......exclusive.

Go ahead, sell me that headset.

Last edited by cb400bill; 06-10-22 at 10:36 AM. Reason: Stop it
bbbob is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 12:06 PM
  #61  
purebikes 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
purebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Measure the bottom bracket width.
if 74 mm that would go a long way to dispel rumors of a counterfeit.
I will measure it later today but the story is that they were counterfeit Monzaís not counterfeit Cinelliís, which is why it doesnít make sense to me
__________________
Bikes are cool, even the dumb ones.
purebikes is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 12:11 PM
  #62  
purebikes 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
purebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by bbbob View Post
Wait, the 74mm shell versions are fine, which it looks like the "bike in question" has. Besides the oh so exotic 10 extra non matching cluttering 0.0137" thick letter decals a Z, an A, a M, an O, and an N, the mighty red machine is a completely normal, mundane even, SC. IMHO the elimination of the chrome head lugs (for whatever fashion reason) is a minus Not a plus (what were they thinking, less bling = mo betta?). Having a chrome seat lug w/o chrome head lugs is a fashion whoopsy IMHO. So shoot me. What's impressive to me, is that it's all there and did NOT get the Universal 61 cancer. It's a tight window, pre 61's yet post lug change from the previous type. About a year. The headset is extra cool, been looking for one for ever.

I grew up near Cupertino Bike shop. I bought my first helmet at age 15 from Spence, a dorky orange and black Kucharic, and got hit by a van on the way to buy it!
Survived, obviously. But throughout this era, I never saw one Monza labeled SC that came through Spence. I don't think any did.

What we know is that there are examples of both late 50's versions and early 60's. We know that the frames are SCs Not Bs or embodying ANY other exotic frame feature whatsof#$kingever.
Therefore (says the mansplaining man to men) it's purely a marketing gimmick, or some superficial "exclusivity" done to keep a dealer or importer happy that his painted and chromed steel item is.......exclusive.

Go ahead, sell me that headset.
Interesting, someone mentioned Spence directly as the one who sold the decals, so I thought if he had ďextrasĒ that there was some connection. Again, the story is probably bogus but it is interesting how these things seem to evolve.

And I dabble in bike sales but Iím not an animal. The headset stays with the bike. 😎
__________________
Bikes are cool, even the dumb ones.
purebikes is offline  
Likes For purebikes:
Old 06-10-22, 12:59 PM
  #63  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,466
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2578 Post(s)
Liked 2,438 Times in 1,004 Posts
Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
It is time now to turn back to talking ONLY about the bike in question and not the OP's intent.

Thank you.
I beg to differ. This forum creates online and in real life relationships. I get choose my friends and knowing intent matters. I have no obligation to share anything with anyone, especially people who aren't my friends. For example, the second half of the reply to me in post 39 was sincere and very much appreciated. The TIA in post 1 was meaningless. I'm afraid to say it matters, especially to humans.
iab is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 01:12 PM
  #64  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,466
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2578 Post(s)
Liked 2,438 Times in 1,004 Posts
Originally Posted by purebikes View Post
Does anyone have any knowledge of these Fake Monzas or French Jobby Monza? Sounds like some juicy international bike espionage and I want to know more.
None of the Monzas I have seen were from the 70s. All were late 50s, early 60s. Was vintage bikes a thing in the 70s to make counterfeits? Also, I don't know anyone who has seen more than 5 examples of these things. How could anyone possibly tell the difference between "real" and "fake"?

It seems to me, the only question not known about these bikes is whether the decal was factory applied or not. So would it really matter if a bike shop in Monza did it in 1960 or a French shop did it in 1970? My money is on a bunch of knuckleheads in Monza who all bought Cinellis over the course of 3-5 years, decided to do a group buy to be best bike buds forever. Prove me wrong.
iab is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 01:24 PM
  #65  
beech333
Fuji Fan
 
beech333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oswego, Il
Posts: 1,824

Bikes: Was Fuji and got my grails (Pro, Pro SR, Design Series, & Ti). Now I hunt 50's and older road bikes.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
I beg to differ. This forum creates online and in real life relationships. I get choose my friends and knowing intent matters. I have no obligation to share anything with anyone, especially people who aren't my friends. For example, the second half of the reply to me in post 39 was sincere and very much appreciated. The TIA in post 1 was meaningless. I'm afraid to say it matters, especially to humans.
You're a bot. Prove me wrong. The real iab had spring rides. Imposter.
beech333 is offline  
Old 06-10-22, 03:38 PM
  #66  
purebikes 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
purebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
None of the Monzas I have seen were from the 70s. All were late 50s, early 60s. Was vintage bikes a thing in the 70s to make counterfeits? Also, I don't know anyone who has seen more than 5 examples of these things. How could anyone possibly tell the difference between "real" and "fake"?
That is my thought too, but the person who messaged me on Ebay made it sound like it was common knowledge. ďIím sure Iím not the first to tell you thisÖĒ I donít want to quote them directly , since I donít have their permission as of yet, but thatís how the story started. And just to clarify, He was saying that they took 10+ year old cinellis and made them look like ďMonzasĒ in the 70ís, not using 70ís cinelli frames. They also said that the ďfakeĒ ones were all red with a white headtube like this one, but they made it sound like there were a lot of them, which obviously there arenít. I donít necessarily believe them, but it was an interesting story so wanted to ask around, since itís common knowledge and all.
purebikes is offline  
Likes For purebikes:
Old 06-10-22, 04:23 PM
  #67  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,994
Mentioned: 121 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2619 Post(s)
Liked 1,622 Times in 1,199 Posts
Reads like an oblique argument to get you to lower your price.

I have shown a bike once that I bought new and picked up from the factory- original paint and graphics the entire time.
one "expert" decades on stated it had to be a repaint as the headtube herald was not centered top to bottom. Sure.
repechage is offline  
Likes For repechage:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.