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$50 Trek
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...15aa34807.jpeg the plan is to hang onto it until my son grows into it. Then strip it down for a repaint, replace consumables, maybe brifters? Maybe Innicycle? |
Originally Posted by Miele Man
(Post 21632638)
Stick narrow slick tires on that and dropbar with either Brifters or Ergo levers and you'd have a fantastic touring bike. I had a Bianchi MTB with very similar geometry and mounted an extra water bottle cage and 750ml (3 cups) water bottle BEHIND the seat tube. I used that bike a lot to tour on dirt roads.
Cheers |
Motobecane from a friendly neighbor
One of my distant neighbors dropped this off in my yard after we had a conversation about my hobby of refurbishing bikes to get them back on the road. He said that he used to ride quite a bit back in the day but can't risk it now because of his advanced age and risk of falling. He said that one of his sons offered to spruce up the bike but never did. So I assured him I could get it back in service. I haven't worked much with cottered cranks and understand they are quite the bear. I have avoided working on any so far, but thought this might be the right bike to make the effort. On the other hand, this bike is soooo heavy I was thinking about replacing the cottered cranks with square taper BB and some used Sugino cranks. I won't know until I get it out, whether the BB is French or Swiss threaded and instead of paying through the nose for a specific threaded BB I though I would use a threadless BB offered by Sunlight ($30) instead of the expensive one offered by Velo (read about this approach on another thread in this forum, may I just love you guys!). Anyways, hope to make this build project for this thread. Any and all suggestions and input on this French bike would be appreiciated. Am doing this for my elder neighbor, who is looking forward to seeing the bike on the road again.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9e731b3d05.jpg Everything looks original at first glance https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f079f31972.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...508abbbe6a.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d392af044f.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a1e71d2f94.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...809ad99df4.jpg I saw some lettering and rubbed a little of the rust away. It says "Phil". Is that Phil Wood? https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...21c7cccd7d.jpg Can anyone tell me why there is a shim in this seat tube? Is this how they sent it from the factory? Bars are straight, just a twisted brake lever https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8913a29ad9.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...85eac54c5b.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...63fb98d28d.jpg |
Cool wheel set! Those are early Phil Wood hubs with steel centers, and the bearings in them can be replaced. Wonder what the rims are? The shim is factory-issue, I had one just like it on the 1975 Motobecane Grand Touring that was my introduction to this forum's Clunker Challenge 100 series. Prowl around on this site and you'll find somewhere the first four or five pages a thread on converting French cottered cranks over to cotterless, which basically involves replacing the spindle with the right width and length square-taper spindle. I've done similar things trial and error through the years with no ill effect. In my workshop as I speak is a battered Mercier that some previous owner did just that - it has its original French Barden black fixed cup, a well-used Sugino spindle, and an ISO adjustable cup crammed in there, running mis-matched cranks. It works and completes the generalized holy hell of how that bike presents.
I wouldn't sweat the cranks too much - there are lots of tutorials on how to remove cotters. I've gone to using a big metal pipe held over the rounded end, supported against the ground, and using a BIG (2 lb) hammer to smack the threaded end precisely. Coupled with a soak in penetrating oil, it has worked flawlessly without distorting anything. |
Originally Posted by rustystrings61
(Post 21634750)
Cool wheel set! Those are early Phil Wood hubs with steel centers, and the bearings in them can be replaced. Wonder what the rims are? The shim is factory-issue, I had one just like it on the 1975 Motobecane Grand Touring that was my introduction to this forum's Clunker Challenge 100 series. Prowl around on this site and you'll find somewhere the first four or five pages a thread on converting French cottered cranks over to cotterless, which basically involves replacing the spindle with the right width and length square-taper spindle. I've done similar things trial and error through the years with no ill effect. In my workshop as I speak is a battered Mercier that some previous owner did just that - it has its original French Barden black fixed cup, a well-used Sugino spindle, and an ISO adjustable cup crammed in there, running mis-matched cranks. It works and completes the generalized holy hell of how that bike presents.
I wouldn't sweat the cranks too much - there are lots of tutorials on how to remove cotters. I've gone to using a big metal pipe held over the rounded end, supported against the ground, and using a BIG (2 lb) hammer to smack the threaded end precisely. Coupled with a soak in penetrating oil, it has worked flawlessly without distorting anything. |
Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 21635525)
Can we have pics of the tool setup for the cotter removal plz? :D
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61
(Post 21635539)
I don't have enough hands to hold the pipe against the crank on one end, against the top of my shoe on the other, while holding a great big ol' hammer ... you'll just have to use your imagination, and picture me calculating how hard to hit without injuring myself ...
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well, I guess you could rest the lower end of the pipe on a wooden block, but where's the fun in that?
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61
(Post 21635628)
well, I guess you could rest the lower end of the pipe on a wooden block, but where's the fun in that?
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Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 21635622)
And therein lies the crux, how much BFH and will I get out alive if I screw it up? :roflmao2:
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I've been watching this Jeffrey Richman tandem. It disa
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c26a3743d8.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2180ffbe77.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b22d189bcc.jpg ppeared but ended up on Nextdoor for a fraction of the $500 asking price. Really nice seller. They understood its value but the 64/59 seat tubes made it a hard sell. They only asked that I send them a picture when it gets refurbished. My son is 6'4" so it looks like I have a captain... |
Originally Posted by Nubra
(Post 21637047)
That is a really good question! Thanks for bringing it up merziac! As a rather inexperienced wrencher, I do want to live another day.:injured:
The crapshoot factor goes way up when you pick one up, especially when done in frustration, impatience or anger. When I find myself even thinking about it, I step back, take a deep breath and ponder a different solution that may avoid a bad outcome. I have been wrenching, hacking, building and working on bikes, cars professionally, drag racing motorcycles and many things in between all my life. Hammers like any tool have great value when applied correctly, when not they can have some of the most disastrous results which can also serve to build skill after the fact but is better avoided by forethought. ;) |
[QUOTE=merziac;21637827]I have a lot of hammers, rarely, almost never use them on bikes.
I would guess that removing these cotters from cottered crank is one of them? I found a pretty good Youtube video by "RJ the bike guy" for removing cotters, but even he had a really tough time getting them out. On my last cottered bike rebuild, I didn't remove the cranks as they had a good feel and just dribbled tenacious oil down into the bearings. That one was a beater Peugeot build, and so I didn't mind. This one I'd like to upgrade, unless you think it is worth retaining the cranks, seeing as it is all original? |
Originally Posted by Nubra
(Post 21637885)
Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 21637827)
I have a lot of hammers, rarely, almost never use them on bikes.
New Crank Cotter Press |
[QUOTE=Nubra;21637885]
Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 21637827)
I have a lot of hammers, rarely, almost never use them on bikes.
I would guess that removing these cotters from cottered crank is one of them? I found a pretty good Youtube video by "RJ the bike guy" for removing cotters, but even he had a really tough time getting them out. On my last cottered bike rebuild, I didn't remove the cranks as they had a good feel and just dribbled tenacious oil down into the bearings. That one was a beater Peugeot build, and so I didn't mind. This one I'd like to upgrade, unless you think it is worth retaining the cranks, seeing as it is all original? Sounds to me like the Pug should have been the test case to practice on, this one could be too. I've done plenty of cotters but they as you can see are one of the biggest crapshoots in all of cycling since they often require the hammer be employed, the point of no return comes quickly. If the goal is to just get it off then destruction may not matter but I subscribe to do no harm mainly for the practice and refinement of technique for when it does matter. I also like to have any and all spare parts, you never know when you may need them and like I said, the ability to think it through and be successful is priceless when saving something is critical to the goal. Maybe not the case here but often is and presents the opportunity to challenge the challenge and prevail when the stakes are not high, win, win. ;) |
Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 21637827)
Hammers like any tool have great value when applied correctly, when not they can have some of the most disastrous results which can also serve to build skill after the fact but is better avoided by forethought. ;)
|
Originally Posted by rustystrings61
(Post 21634750)
Cool wheel set! Those are early Phil Wood hubs with steel centers, and the bearings in them can be replaced. Wonder what the rims are? The shim is factory-issue, I had one just like it on the 1975 Motobecane Grand Touring that was my introduction to this forum's Clunker Challenge 100 series. Prowl around on this site and you'll find somewhere the first four or five pages a thread on converting French cottered cranks over to cotterless, which basically involves replacing the spindle with the right width and length square-taper spindle. I've done similar things trial and error through the years with no ill effect. In my workshop as I speak is a battered Mercier that some previous owner did just that - it has its original French Barden black fixed cup, a well-used Sugino spindle, and an ISO adjustable cup crammed in there, running mis-matched cranks. It works and completes the generalized holy hell of how that bike presents.
I wouldn't sweat the cranks too much - there are lots of tutorials on how to remove cotters. I've gone to using a big metal pipe held over the rounded end, supported against the ground, and using a BIG (2 lb) hammer to smack the threaded end precisely. Coupled with a soak in penetrating oil, it has worked flawlessly without distorting anything. The question now is are the rims still rideable? ;) Oh, and I get your pipe setup now, I was envisioning something else when I asked about it. :crash: |
Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 21637948)
Those rims are Super Champion, one of the go to upgrades back then and no surprise with the Phil hubs.
The question now is are the rims still rideable? ;) Oh, and I get your pipe setup now, I was envisioning something else when I asked about it. :crash: Also, thanks to you Merziac, meant to include you in the "thanks for making me rethink the hammer" post below. Appreciate the philosophical bent of your commentary. Cheers! |
Originally Posted by smontanaro
(Post 21637895)
While people do use hammers as you've discovered, there are better tools for the job:
New Crank Cotter Press
Originally Posted by rustystrings61
(Post 21635539)
I don't have enough hands to hold the pipe against the crank on one end, against the top of my shoe on the other, while holding a great big ol' hammer ... you'll just have to use your imagination, and picture me calculating how hard to hit without injuring myself ...
I found a couple of alternatives to using a hammer for removing cotter pins. This one has a pretty good discussion along with the photo of a vise, socket and assistant for removal of pin. https://www.flickr.com/photos/29233640@N07/3066678449 And further down on this thread, someone suggested that this tool had worked very well for them, instead of buying a $60 cotter removal press. I think that the heavy duty chain breaker is well worth the cost! Will report back. https://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-...ker-66488.html Thanks to both and all of you for making me think past the hammer! Cheers. |
Originally Posted by Nubra
(Post 21638399)
The rims are in great shape, wheels are true, galvanized spokes very good too. So I am pretty sure they are ride able, is there a reason they would not be? I haven't started on this yet, but are the hubs the standard free ball bearing and cone that I am used to? Will post photos later.
Also, thanks to you Merziac, meant to include you in the "thanks for making me rethink the hammer" post below. Appreciate the philosophical bent of your commentary. Cheers! The hubs are Phil Wood hubs, somebody already mentioned that I think and they are sealed so if they to are good then again you are as well. They should clean up to a large degree, you will have to decide if its enough for you. The hammer thing is a tough one, you very well may have to go there anyway so keep that in mind, it is likely to be a valuable learning experience no matter what and that is part of my thinking, these kind of tasks can teach you a lot if you let them, if they are difficult they can teach you more which is good in the long run to be able to work through them. Glad you are taking it on, make it so. ;) |
Snagged this pair of Superbe Pro hubs from a local seller, $35 for the pair. Perfect for a wheel project for the Univega....
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...348bc85a1c.jpg |
Originally Posted by Nubra
(Post 21638403)
I found a couple of alternatives to using a hammer for removing cotter pins.
This one has a pretty good discussion along with the photo of a vise, socket and assistant for removal of pin. https://www.flickr.com/photos/29233640@N07/3066678449 And further down on this thread, someone suggested that this tool had worked very well for them, instead of buying a $60 cotter removal press. I think that the heavy duty chain breaker is well worth the cost! Will report back. https://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-...ker-66488.html Thanks to both and all of you for making me think past the hammer! Cheers. |
Holdsworth Cyclone
Got this great Holdsworth Cyclone (sold as a frameset as a clube racer I think) and a Giant Kronos and cash for a bike I was selling. Great fun working on it. Took the crazy Simplex crank off and slapped a Gran Sport on with Cyclone shifters. Modolo International levers and Dia Compe side pulls replaced the Mafac Racer stuff (for safety). Best part was sourcing great quality decals on eBay delivered for $12 CAD. Not crazy about my touch ups so may re-do that. Very pleased.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d250db0160.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e1f2201bb2.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c986e0ad59.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c19e8b22f7.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...184dbd1675.jpg |
The Township to the north of me has a trash compactor / recycling site , I do a drive by once or twice a week to see what the old guy that runs it has set aside to sell. A couple weeks ago I got this 24 inch Specialized Hotrock , it needs some work but should be a nice bike for my 10 year old Grandson to ride when he is at our house. It cost me 5.00
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...49f3f3e144.jpg |
Originally Posted by ryansu
(Post 21646042)
I bought the expensive bikesmith cotter press and every time I have to use it I am glad I did and I have used it enough by now to justify the price, if this is the only cotter bike you plan to work on that is a different calculation. I also had an epic fail using the hammer method so that might have influenced me too :D
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