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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 01-04-15, 08:55 PM
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@Velocivixen. I don't think you'll get in over your head at all. The Speedster went quite well, and will help me go faster on the Raleighs. Your only variable would be the gen hub, and I don't think it's brain surgery or rocket science or both combined. If you get weary of it, my LBS did a tuneup on my '74 Suburban for $60 (no parts needed)- the reason I did that was get a "ground zero" feel for an old bike after having not been on one for so long.

Disclaimer: I regularly fool with a '64 Karmann Ghia and a '69 GMC 3/4 ton.
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Old 01-04-15, 10:55 PM
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@Number_6 - thanks for your encouragement. I hesitation is that, as one who's still finding out what exactly I like to ride, I know I'd love this bike as a "project" to stimulate my mind. However once I'd get it done, then what? What if I didn't like to ride it? Obviously I could sell it, but not likely before spring. And who would buy it? I live in a "hot" bike market and it can get crazy. Only a certain type would buy a bike like that. I guess the trick is not to spend much $$ on it, so I could at least break even. Or would maybe have to take a loss, but be happy for the experience. So....that's what I'm thinking about.
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Old 01-05-15, 01:56 AM
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@Velocivixen I've found out for myself over the past few months it's not so much the kind of bicycle I like to ride, as it is the experience I want- and the type of bike determines that experience I've got a titanium Moto bag o' tricks for when I have the need to go fast. If I take a notion to go tour and camp for a few days, there's the Catrike (also for when i get to be an old man).

When I got the Super Sport and Suburban last fall, things came back to me and it wasn't just nostalgia. As a kid, when I got tired of the house I'd run out the back door to the patio, hop on my bike and take off down the driveway. Usually I had no idea on God's green earth where I'd be going- friends house? Movies? Corner store? Downtown? A park? I just got out with whatever I was wearing and went as quick as I got the idea. No clipless pedals, bike shorts, helmets, water bottles or jersey. no protracted prep time at all- I just went and I was free. So I'd ride and sightsee, learn the world around me, meet people, hang out with friends. As a friend of mine said- and I believe I've said somewhere on these forums- "we lived on our bikes". There would be a gaggle of us out riding, just running around- the only contest was who could go down the hill the fastest. It really was a lifestyle, I reckon. That experience is not the only one I like on a bike, but it is the one that suits me most often. Most of the time, it is the relaxation as well as the freedom a bicycle can offer I appreciate the most.

So, these old tourers suit me well. I can be slow, a little lazy on them and enjoy what's around me. On a quiet, somewhat level lane around here. I can watch the horses try to eat the fence boards. Ride along the Ohio anyplace from Pittsburgh to Paducah. Rail trails up in the Ohio flatlands, Go to Old Louisville and examine the Victoriana- great for 3-speeds. If there's a lot of hills, I can get the Suburban or the Sirrus. In fact I'm "tourerizing" the Sirrus with upright bars (more comfortable than those flat bars that numb and pain me) and fenders.

Now when I buy something, I can buy it to keep- I know it'll help me do what I want to do. I may overpay or find a steal- but I know there will be enjoyment- that's what's important.

It's great that others ride personal bests, or play in the mud for their raison d'ete. I'm just speaking for myself.

I just found it's what I want to do on a bicycle that determines what machine(s) I'll favor most. So what does anyone else like to do? And what bike would that be?

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Old 01-05-15, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
@Number_6 - thanks for your encouragement. I hesitation is that, as one who's still finding out what exactly I like to ride, I know I'd love this bike as a "project" to stimulate my mind. However once I'd get it done, then what? What if I didn't like to ride it? Obviously I could sell it, but not likely before spring. And who would buy it? I live in a "hot" bike market and it can get crazy. Only a certain type would buy a bike like that. I guess the trick is not to spend much $$ on it, so I could at least break even. Or would maybe have to take a loss, but be happy for the experience. So....that's what I'm thinking about.
VV - Not everyone has a narrow focus on what they like to ride. My own tastes in bikes are about as eclectic as they are in music - and similarly, riding my old 3-speeds puts a smile on my face as much as any of my road bikes or my winter rider.
So you can happily ride this '55 Phillips and a DeRosa too.
The example you show appears to have all the original bits too, right down to the OEM bell, and is wonderfully patinaed as to show its age and character. (like me )
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Old 01-05-15, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Number_6
@Velocivixen I've found out for myself over the past few months it's not so much the kind of bicycle I like to ride, as it is the experience I want- and the type of bike determines that experience I've got a titanium Moto bag o' tricks for when I have the need to go fast. If I take a notion to go tour and camp for a few days, there's the Catrike (also for when i get to be an old man).

When I got the Super Sport and Suburban last fall, things came back to me and it wasn't just nostalgia. As a kid, when I got tired of the house I'd run out the back door to the patio, hop on my bike and take off down the driveway. Usually I had no idea on God's green earth where I'd be going- friends house? Movies? Corner store? Downtown? A park? I just got out with whatever I was wearing and went as quick as I got the idea. No clipless pedals, bike shorts, helmets, water bottles or jersey. no protracted prep time at all- I just went and I was free. So I'd ride and sightsee, learn the world around me, meet people, hang out with friends. As a friend of mine said- and I believe I've said somewhere on these forums- "we lived on our bikes". There would be a gaggle of us out riding, just running around- the only contest was who could go down the hill the fastest. It really was a lifestyle, I reckon. That experience is not the only one I like on a bike, but it is the one that suits me most often. Most of the time, it is the relaxation as well as the freedom a bicycle can offer I appreciate the most.

So, these old tourers suit me well. I can be slow, a little lazy on them and enjoy what's around me. On a quiet, somewhat level lane around here. I can watch the horses try to eat the fence boards. Ride along the Ohio anyplace from Pittsburgh to Paducah. Rail trails up in the Ohio flatlands, Go to Old Louisville and examine the Victoriana- great for 3-speeds. If there's a lot of hills, I can get the Suburban or the Sirrus. In fact I'm "tourerizing" the Sirrus with upright bars (more comfortable than those flat bars that numb and pain me) and fenders.

Now when I buy something, I can buy it to keep- I know it'll help me do what I want to do. I may overpay or find a steal- but I know I'll there will be enjoyment- that's what's important.

It's great that others ride personal bests, or play in the mud for their raison d'ete. I'm just speaking for myself.

I just found it's what I want to do on a bicycle that determines what machine(s) I'll favor most. So what does anyone else like to do? And what bike would that be?
Very nicely put. Your experience and desires are very close to mine, at the present.

It's ten years now since I got back on a bicycle, and over the course of the past year I: 1. Sold off all my modern derailleur road bikes (anything that used brifters), 2. Sold off all my mountain bikes and let my trail system go back to nature. 3. Cut my road collection to the seven bikes that I realized were irreplacable to me. 4. Have limited my shop work to roadsters and folding bikes. 5. 95% of my non-Sunday morning rides with Poguemahone are now done on an IGH bike in whatever I'm wearing at the moment I decide to go riding.

My DL-1 Tourist has become my main ride. Second choice is my Montague folder, which I keep at work for daily bank runs for the shop and lunch time errands. Of the derailleur road bikes, the Magneet (my long-haul tourer) gets the majority of my riding. And there's one hell of a wardrobe of cycling clothing that's gathering dust in the closet.

At present, I've got three unfinished projects: A third Rossin frame, scheduled for C-Record, once I find all the pieces; a '79 PX-10 to be built to original, and a '69 Raleigh Sprite. Guess which one is going to get done first? And the other two may not get done at all before 2016.
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Old 01-05-15, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
Just an update for those interested. I have an appt. with the seller of the Phillips with the 3 Speed SA Dyno hub on Tuesday. Still not sure I really want to take this on. On a nicer point, one of the mechanics at my LBS is going to give me his personal cotter press - he got it from an old bike shop & rarely uses it. I told him that I don't own any bikes, yet, with cottered cranks and he quickly quipped, "You will!"

Here's the link again: Vintage PHILLIPS Sturmey Archer 3 Speed Touring Bicycle Bike ENGLAND
There are several things about this machine that make it a good deal. For one thing its nearly complete. For another, that rear hub is a valuable part- and they go for good money on ebay. You have the original bell, which is really unusual to see. The shifter is correct and rare. Shifters of this type go for good money as well. The crank is charming. It appears that the chrome on the handlebars is peeling, but they are easily replaced- I know where are two sets are right now for no more than $5.00 each. If this frame fits you, this is an excellent candidate for sorting out what the British 3-speed experience is all about- and the ticket to adventure, as going on a club-style ride with such a steed is a lot of fun. I know there are 3-speed tours in your area; the best known in our neck of the woods is the Lake Pepin tour The Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour

I found out about the tour and it was the impetuous to get a 3-speed of my own. I had plenty of time to sort the bike out before the ride; but I find that I ride this bike more than any other as it is very handy.
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Old 01-05-15, 12:13 PM
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Hey All, great perspective here. I'm picking up my, new to me, Park Tool cotter press today and seeing the bike tomorrow. It will have to fit me for sure, because I plan to ride it. As I mentioned earlier, the seller said it was literally a "barn find" and he just wiped down the frame.

Ill keep eel you all posted. To @auchencrow - yes, I'm learning to embrace my "patina"
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Old 01-05-15, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
I told him that I don't own any bikes, yet, with cottered cranks and he quickly quipped, "You will!"
I had to chuckle, I may know them... or they have an Identical twinn.
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Old 01-05-15, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by michael k
I had to chuckle, I may know them... or they have an Identical twinn.
Hey @michael k - it was the Bike Gallery in Beaverton. Know anyone there?

Last edited by Velocivixen; 01-05-15 at 07:53 PM. Reason: added an @ symbol
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Old 01-06-15, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
Hey @michael k - it was the Bike Gallery in Beaverton. Know anyone there?
Nah,fraid not. But thats really cool of them! Also somewhat impressed someone had a cotter press.
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Old 01-06-15, 12:45 PM
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You should take it as a high compliment that they're giving you their cotter press.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:20 PM
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Update: I saw & rode the bike. Brake pads original & stopping was non existent so ride was short. The red paint will never be "red" - more of a dried blood brown red. Pedals are actually black & say Phillips on them. Lowest seller will go is $100. Sounds like that's a good deal for this type of bike. It fits, and I'm certain it would be a learning experience, but it's .....I'm not sure. I'd love it as a project but what if I bought it, replaced consumables then didn't like it? Could I sell it? This is a hot, competitive market in bike selling season. So I'm not sure what I'll decide.
@noglider- it was the mechanic's own personal cotter press that he's had & never uses. To me that makes it extra special.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:28 PM
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I can't believe you're deliberating over this. It's hard enough to find a 70's Raleigh Sports for $150. You're looking at an ultra-cool pre-Raleigh Philips that needs brake pads, and you're hesitating? Hurry back to the seller and apologize for taking his time and buy the bike.

If you fix it up and don't like it, you've gathered some skills and knowledge, and you know you can sell it at no loss or even a profit. Even if you kept it as a garage queen, it's a great conversation piece for those who visit your garage.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
Update: I saw & rode the bike. Brake pads original & stopping was non existent so ride was short. The red paint will never be "red" - more of a dried blood brown red. Pedals are actually black & say Phillips on them. Lowest seller will go is $100. Sounds like that's a good deal for this type of bike. It fits, and I'm certain it would be a learning experience, but it's .....I'm not sure. I'd love it as a project but what if I bought it, replaced consumables then didn't like it? Could I sell it? This is a hot, competitive market in bike selling season. So I'm not sure what I'll decide.
@noglider- it was the mechanic's own personal cotter press that he's had & never uses. To me that makes it extra special.
I'm with noglider - you've got to buy that bike. It's got all that is cool about 3-speeds (except maybe rod brakes - let's not go there). If you don't, you should avoid the "3-speed" thread, hang your head in shame, and return the cotter press to the mechanic ASAP. We're talking about your reputation now. No pressure though.
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Old 01-06-15, 05:03 PM
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OK - so @dweenk has thrown the gauntlet - we are all waiting with much anticipation what the result of your visit with Prince Phillips might be....you didn't actually say you bought it but c'mon now - $100!?! That's like what, 2 coffees at Starbucks? You can sell it for that in Portland in no time....ask @adventurepdx

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Old 01-06-15, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by markk900
You can sell it for that in Portland in no time....ask @adventurepdx
Yep!
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Old 01-06-15, 05:10 PM
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Wow....okay then. I will keep you posted.

Just sent a text to seller. He's accepted the deal. Arranging pickup. I guess this will be my "winter project".

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Old 01-06-15, 05:19 PM
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This is either gonna be "best thing that ever happened" or "those b@st@rds on bikeforums did this to me"...either way worth $100.....
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Old 01-06-15, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by markk900
This is either gonna be "best thing that ever happened" or "those b@st@rds on bikeforums did this to me"...either way worth $100.....
Now that's funny! Made me lough out loud.

I know - I was gonna say that you're all a bunch of enablers. No, but it should be fun. FWIW when I test rode I was lopsided on the saddle & it's NOT my b*tt!
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Old 01-06-15, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by markk900
This is either gonna be "best thing that ever happened" or "those b@st@rds on bikeforums did this to me"...either way worth $100.....
Or she can put the Park press on E-bay to get her money back.
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Old 01-06-15, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
Update: I saw & rode the bike. Brake pads original & stopping was non existent so ride was short. The red paint will never be "red" - more of a dried blood brown red. Pedals are actually black & say Phillips on them. Lowest seller will go is $100. Sounds like that's a good deal for this type of bike. It fits, and I'm certain it would be a learning experience, but it's .....I'm not sure. I'd love it as a project but what if I bought it, replaced consumables then didn't like it? Could I sell it? This is a hot, competitive market in bike selling season. So I'm not sure what I'll decide.
@noglider- it was the mechanic's own personal cotter press that he's had & never uses. To me that makes it extra special.
Either you buy it, or I'm going to figure some way to take it out from under you.
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Old 01-06-15, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
No, but it should be fun.
You'll be having Tea with the Vicar before you know it and plootering about the Village by dim flickering Dyno-hub light:

"Miss Jane Marple: We're all very ordinary in St. Mary Mead, but ordinary people can sometimes do the most astonishing things."

Alternately:

"Ms. Plum did it in the garage with the Cotter-Pin-Press........"

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Old 01-06-15, 07:32 PM
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The Prince Phillip has arrived to his throne in the garage! The light has a switch on the bottom with 3 positions. Left position does nothing, nor does the center position while pedaling, but the right position turns on headlight as well as the rear red light while pedaling. So why 3 positions? Shifter appears to need adjusting also. So I've got some research to do as to what I should do to fix it up.

My quick questions are:
-Should I just get Kool Stop Continental brake pads? They're readily available & I will keep the bike unchanged, but within reason.
-What kind of shifter cable do I use & how to get it into the actual shifter? Can I reuse the cable housing? If so, should I drip some Tri-Flow in there?
-The fenders are way above the top of the tire - normal?

Also, I just read a Sheldon Brown article & he cites an article by Chris Hayes called "The Secret is Fully Enclosed" from the SA 1956 catalog. I'm not keen (see, I'm already talking with British vernacular) on tearing into a hub, as I am completely unfamiliar with IG & SA hubs & dynamo hubs. So should I just put some oil into the port? How much? How do I even know if it needs any?

Also, I'm thinking I should start my own thread on this bike so as not to monopolize this thread with specific details about the overhaul. Does this sound right? Or is the the thread it should be in?

Thanks for all your support. Cheerio.

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Old 01-06-15, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
The light has a switch on the bottom with 3 positions. Left position does nothing, nor does the center position while pedaling, but the right position turns on headlight as well as the rear red light while pedaling. So why 3 positions?

My quick questions are:
-Should I just get Kool Stop Continental brake pads? They're readily available & I will keep the bike unchanged, but within reason.
-What kind of shifter cable do I use & how to get it into the actual shifter? Can I reuse the cable housing? If so, should I drip some Tri-Flow in there?
-The fenders are way above the top of the tire - normal?

Also, I just read a Sheldon Brown article & he cites an article by Chris Hayes called "The Secret is Fully Enclosed" from the SA 1956 catalog. I'm not keen (see, I'm already talking with British vernacular) on tearing into a hub, as I am completely unfamiliar with IG & SA hubs & dynamo hubs. So should I just put some oil into the port? How much? How do I even know if it needs any?

Also, I'm thinking I should start my own thread on this bike so as not to monopolize this thread with specific details about the overhaul. Does this sound right? Or is the the thread it should be in?

Thanks for all your support. Cheerio.
You should start a Prince Phillip thread in C&V.

The 3 position Dyno-light switch is typical of British electrics "back when" where Nothing is expected of any, of not all switch positions.
It's a Feature.

Kool-Stops are a good idea, as is a proper Brooks saddle.

If you need to have a shifter cable installed refer to Sheldon Brown, if original lube lightly (Tri-Flo is good) and proceed to cable/hub adjustments.
Pull the brake cables. If the cables are rusted, replace with fresh, lube them and re-install w/ your fresh brake pads.


The fenders provide a Classic arc over the tires, the British know about wet. That's how the are supposed to be. Install new tires/tubes.

A sip of non-detergent machine oil is all that is required for normal maintenance whenever it sounds like it needs it (like 30W lawnmower oil) BUT the outer bearings on a machine that has just sat for decades could use whatever proper bearing grease you have. Once again see S. Brown.

Get that cotter-pin-pin press out and cone/HS wrenches for a Full Overhaul. Also ditch the rear cog for a 22T from Harris cycle and have at it.

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 01-06-15 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 01-06-15, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
The Prince Phillip has arrived to his throne in the garage!
Congrats.....the Jedi mind tricks we played on you finally worked!

Originally Posted by Velocivixen
The light has a switch on the bottom with 3 positions. Left position does nothing, nor does the center position while pedaling, but the right position turns on headlight as well as the rear red light while pedaling. So why 3 positions?
From my British Motorcycle days: Dim, Flicker, Off.

Originally Posted by Velocivixen
Should I just get Kool Stop Continental brake pads? They're readily available & I will keep the bike unchanged, but within reason.
Yes....they're cheap and effective.

Originally Posted by Velocivixen
What kind of shifter cable do I use & how to get it into the actual shifter? Can I reuse the cable housing? If so, should I drip some Tri-Flow in there?
LBS should have standard SA cables - they will come with an adjustable connector for the indicator rod (chain into the hub) but will work well enough.

Originally Posted by Velocivixen
So should I just put some oil into the port? How much? How do I even know if it needs any?
A couple of squirts from an oil can....if its too much it will drool out over your rim and tire by tomorrow morning (see, we didn't tell you the literally dirty secrets *before* you bought it!). In general, if it shifts smoothly and makes a nice ticking sound in normal or top gear it will be fine. Standard is to add a squirt or two every couple of months, but I find that means more mess.
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