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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 09-27-17, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SquidPuppet
The answer is here. A good read too.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/varsity.html

I disagree with the lump of rock description. Both of mine roll nicely, absorb bumps and vibration well, handle and steer well, no creaks, and tip the scale at ~26.5 lbs. A quality saddle and tires makes a big difference, but the frames themselves are straight, strong, and reliable.


That is a beautiful bike! I do suppose it boils down to preference. Bikes have different feels to them. That was a very interesting article. Thanks for linking it. The old guy at the bike shop was right. The Schwinn EF frames were a very mild 1010 steel. I was an apprentice at the bike shop. I built the kid bikes and things like the 3 speed Schwinn Racers. I liked the brazed 20-30 Raleighs much better. I liked the Reynolds 531 10 speeds much more than the hi tens, but that doesn't diminish my enjoyment of hi ten 3 speeds.
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Old 09-27-17, 09:26 PM
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Some good posts since I last visited.

-On eastern New England, Boston, and Raleigh: it's not your imagination that older and oddball Raleigh 3-speeds come up in this region. Hamilton Osgood started what later became Raleigh's US operation as a home business type venture before WWII. He lived in Boston and had the bikes shipped to his house. He assembled them in his home and sold them. He did this because at that time, Raleigh told him selling English 3-speeds in the US was not a profitable idea, but Osgood was hellbent on selling Raleigh. Osgood ultimately proved to be right, and the Raleighs began selling in the Boston area. As a result, Boston and eastern New England became hotbeds of early Raleigh use.

-On Sturmey S5s: the bell crank in the oddball Sprite bike the user above posted is the good one. There was an earlier bell crank model made of sheet metal, with an open arm attached to it. They do not work as well and are less sturdy. The bellcrank is the hard part to find. Retail is about $80-100 on eBay these days, but sometimes you can do a little better.

-On Schwinn 3-speeds: Schwinn downgraded the 3-speeds during the course of the mid- and late-1960s. By the 1970s they had stopped investing much improvement in them. Before WWII, Schwinn fillet brazed the lightweights, including the base model New World. After WWII, they continued to fillet braze mid-range models like the 3-speed Continental (not to be confused with the electroforged 10-speed continental of a later time). The New World after WWII became an electroforged bike (except a couple of the bottom bracket joints were still fillet brazed). The metal is indeed a little better on the fillet brazed New World, but the frames both ride nicely.



The red New World is fillet brazed (1941) and the black one (1947) is electroforged.

The Superior and Continental bikes of the 1940s are fillet brazed Cro-Mo mid-range models. The New World is a bit of an odd creature before WWII. It's fillet brazed, but it's not Cro-Mo. It's "genuine seamless tubing". In fact it had its own unique decal:

[IMG]

The pre-war New World frame is a touch lighter than the post-war, but it's not a huge difference. You really do start to notice the difference if you compare the Cro-Mo bikes to the New Worlds. But they're all really high quality bikes from a time when Schwinn was investing in adult 3-speeds.

Frank W. Schwinn was a visionary. He saw the balloon tire bicycle at just the right moment and capitalized on it. He also saw the possibility of adults returning to riding bikes in the U.S. in larger numbers (there had been a bike boom in the 1890s and a crash around 1900), but was several decades too early.

The real downgrade to Schwinn 3-speeds takes place in the 1960s. You see more and more plastic parts, and by the 1970s they're just not as nice as they had been in earlier years. We're not talking bargain basement junk, just a sort of malaise of design that shows the heyday of the 3-speed was long gone. The 1970s era Schwinn 3-speeds do feel 'dead' to me, but they still make great, durable commuters if you don't mind the weight.
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Old 09-27-17, 09:34 PM
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And I've lately been riding this little thing: a really well-kept Raleigh Twenty



I don't think this was ridden much at all. It still has its original tires in excellent shape. All cables, grips, housings, and the saddle are original.
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Old 09-28-17, 05:52 AM
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Tastes change over time too. I would have never guessed that I'd ever like riding big heavy roadsters. Yet today, most of my riding time is spent on an old DL-1.
There was a huge parking lot behind the bike shop where I worked. The owner was very fussy about quality and set up, so every one I assembled was test ridden around the parking lot. By far, these were mostly the Stingray type bikes, but I did do quite a few the lower end Raleigh and Schwinn ten speeds. When the owner worked in the back room it was on things like Paramounts and the high end Raleighs. So my impressions are from short spins around a parking lot almost 50 years ago as a teenager.
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Old 09-28-17, 01:46 PM
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@SquidPuppet that is simply gorgeous!
@SirMike1983 Thanks for the info, i am absorbing as much as i can. Would love your take on my 64' Raleigh Sport we believe to be from a non US market.
here's a link if you have the time
Confused 196? Ralegh Sports 3 speed

Now to a actual question, what tires do you guys recommend in the 26 x 1 3/8 size, Kendra, Panaracer Col de la Vie, other?
AND should i swap out the original valve stems which have the locking nut on the base for a modern tubes or are those just part of the rim?
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Old 09-28-17, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
That is a beautiful bike! I do suppose it boils down to preference. Bikes have different feels to them. That was a very interesting article. Thanks for linking it.
Thanks and you are welcome.

Originally Posted by Scipunk
@SquidPuppet that is simply gorgeous!
Thank you.
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Old 09-28-17, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
@SquidPuppet that is simply gorgeous!
@SirMike1983 Thanks for the info, i am absorbing as much as i can. Would love your take on my 64' Raleigh Sport we believe to be from a non US market.
here's a link if you have the time
Confused 196? Ralegh Sports 3 speed

Now to a actual question, what tires do you guys recommend in the 26 x 1 3/8 size, Kendra, Panaracer Col de la Vie, other?
AND should i swap out the original valve stems which have the locking nut on the base for a modern tubes or are those just part of the rim?
With tubes we are lucky. There are still tubes made with the continuous threaded stems. Simply replace the tubes on there now with new tubes and screw down the ring. The plastic caps will suffice or the metal ones if you can find them.
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Old 09-28-17, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow
With tubes we are lucky. There are still tubes made with the continuous threaded stems. Simply replace the tubes on there now with new tubes and screw down the ring. The plastic caps will suffice or the metal ones if you can find them.
Awesome thanks! I am lucky as the 64 still has the metal caps one normal and one with the little valve tool on it

Do i search for them using threaded valve or?
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Old 09-28-17, 04:53 PM
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I bobo'd. I had this Scorcher frame put up and I guess I forgot to grease the headset. I noticed it when I was working today. I noticed the headset was loose and when I tightened it, it was rough. I will go into it tomorrow and see what's what.
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Old 09-28-17, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
Awesome thanks! I am lucky as the 64 still has the metal caps one normal and one with the little valve tool on it

Do i search for them using threaded valve or?
They are available at most Bike shops. Metal cap with the valve tool. I have one on mine too. Cool! Does it have the little rubber top?
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Old 09-28-17, 05:00 PM
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Very nice! I've seen this somewhere before...ratrodbikes.com?
Is that a Gimondi crankset? I've got one waiting to go on a Dyno cruiser. It's patiently waiting for me to finish the DL-1 before it gets some resto-rat-love.
edited to say: Just looked at your other bikes, cool Schwinns! That tomato red really suits the cruiser.

[/QUOTE]

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Old 09-28-17, 05:11 PM
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A couple of rookie questions if I may. As I get going on these Raleighs 1952 and now 1949. I will be asking a lot of questions. Thank you all in advance. I think it's a lot less expensive to buy a parts bike than look for individual parts. I'm going to need a couple of Westrick rims. Are they only on Raleighs and what years in a parts bike would I be looking for? I'll need a 1952 SA hub, would a Schwinn parts bike do? any other? I'm going to bathe the chrome in Oxylic acid. What will happen to other metals in OA and the chainwheel on the 49 doesn't look chrome.
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Old 09-28-17, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
@SquidPuppet that is simply gorgeous!
@SirMike1983 Thanks for the info, i am absorbing as much as i can. Would love your take on my 64' Raleigh Sport we believe to be from a non US market.
here's a link if you have the time
Confused 196? Ralegh Sports 3 speed

Now to a actual question, what tires do you guys recommend in the 26 x 1 3/8 size, Kendra, Panaracer Col de la Vie, other?
AND should i swap out the original valve stems which have the locking nut on the base for a modern tubes or are those just part of the rim?
I find the older tubes hold air much better than new ones.
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Old 09-28-17, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow
They are available at most Bike shops. Metal cap with the valve tool. I have one on mine too. Cool! Does it have the little rubber top?
Sadly no mine doesn't have the rubber top, in fact i haven't seen one with it lol

I think i might get the Panaracers they seem to have great ratings

@gster i figured as new stuff just isn't always up to snuff, i will use these as long as i can
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Old 09-28-17, 06:00 PM
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@Scipunk If the old tubes are latex, it might be that you would have to use a latex patch if you had a flat. I seem to remember someone on here making that statement.

Anyone... true or false?
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Old 09-28-17, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
@SquidPuppet that is simply gorgeous!
@SirMike1983 Thanks for the info, i am absorbing as much as i can. Would love your take on my 64' Raleigh Sport we believe to be from a non US market.
here's a link if you have the time
Confused 196? Ralegh Sports 3 speed

Now to a actual question, what tires do you guys recommend in the 26 x 1 3/8 size, Kendra, Panaracer Col de la Vie, other?
AND should i swap out the original valve stems which have the locking nut on the base for a modern tubes or are those just part of the rim?
I find the older tubes hold air much better than new ones.
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Old 09-28-17, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow
@Scipunk If the old tubes are latex, it might be that you would have to use a latex patch if you had a flat. I seem to remember someone on here making that statement.

Anyone... true or false?
Really? Hmm good to know? lol

I have to admit i am a bit terrified to take this bike (the 64) apart because I've never fully tore down a old bike, just newer MTB and BMX but i was also young and wasn't paying for it out of pocket...lol

I know to keep a eye on the bearings and all that also i want to open the BB cause there seems to be a slight amount of play. So that's gonna be fun.

Anyone near western mass wanna come down and check her out? PM me if so im near the CT northern border also and can travel
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Old 09-28-17, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow
With tubes we are lucky. There are still tubes made with the continuous threaded stems. Simply replace the tubes on there now with new tubes and screw down the ring. The plastic caps will suffice or the metal ones if you can find them.
The Germans still like their metal threaded valves with locknut on Schrader tubes. Both Schwalbe and Continental tubes have them. I use the Conti tubes on my three speeds (and on other bikes too!)



As for nicer valve caps, check out what Jon Sharratt of Gentlemen Cyclist (Lake Pepin 3 Speed Tour and ABCE dude) has on his site: The Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour (and go to "Parts" on left sidebar)


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Old 09-28-17, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by adventurepdx
The Germans still like their metal threaded valves with locknut on Schrader tubes. Both Schwalbe and Continental tubes have them. I use the Conti tubes on my three speeds (and on other bikes too!)



As for nicer valve caps, check out what Jon Sharratt of Gentlemen Cyclist (Lake Pepin 3 Speed Tour and ABCE dude) has on his site: The Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour (and go to "Parts" on left sidebar)


Thank you for that link! I am putting together a list of things from there already...lol
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Old 09-28-17, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
Now to a actual question, what tires do you guys recommend in the 26 x 1 3/8 size, Kendra,(sic) Panaracer Col de la Vie, other?
ah, the eternal debate!

The "consensus" for best 590 (26" x 1 3/8" or 650A) tyre/tire is between Schwalbe Delta Cruiser* and Panaracer Col Del La Vie.

The Delta Cruisers* are heavier, which is either a plus (flat protection) or a con ("dead" feeling, depending on the rider). They come in different colors, like black, creme, whitewall, gumwall. People like the creme!


The Col De La Vie come in a gumwall (though I have heard rumors of all black) and have a "blocky" tread similar to older tires. They are lighter (more supple) which is a plus ("lively" feeling) or a con (flats!) They are also the "widest" 590 tires. Others are going to be 35 or 37 mm wide, the Col de la Vies are 40.


So choose wisely.

As for other brands, there doesn't seem to be much love for them, at best they are good. Kenda is a mixed bag. I had a set on my Rudge that didn't flat in the couple years I owned the bike (granted, I didn't ride it as much as my other three speed), but I know others have had issues. Conti, Rubena, Michelin, CST have offerings in the 590 size, I don't know much about them.

*Yes, there is the Schwalbe Marathon, which does come in 590, but it's more expensive and harder to find, and no one seems to talk about them, so...
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Old 09-28-17, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
Thank you for that link! I am putting together a list of things from there already...lol
You are welcome!
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Old 09-28-17, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by plympton
A couple of rookie questions if I may. As I get going on these Raleighs 1952 and now 1949. I will be asking a lot of questions. Thank you all in advance. I think it's a lot less expensive to buy a parts bike than look for individual parts. I'm going to need a couple of Westrick rims. Are they only on Raleighs and what years in a parts bike would I be looking for? I'll need a 1952 SA hub, would a Schwinn parts bike do? any other? I'm going to bathe the chrome in Oxylic acid. What will happen to other metals in OA and the chainwheel on the 49 doesn't look chrome.
Yeah you don't want the Oxalic acid near aluminium or galvanised (think spokes) or nickel plate for very long. Same goes for phosphoric acid and the rust converter type treatments. I had some paint loss from steel, and some deep etching into a cast zinc part using phosphoric acid. But for chrome and rusted steel - go for it. Soak times will vary depending on the temperature and the depth of the rust. The paint loss didn't bother me on those particular parts as I intended to repaint them - just something to be aware of. I think (?) oxalic is safe with paint but it would be better if someone else weighed in on this.

Also consider straight up vinegar - you may have to soak it for longer but it is much safer for you and your lungs. I soaked some rusty parts in vinegar for 2 days, but this was in winter, so in summer it would work faster. You still could probably leave it soaking all day without worrying about your parts too much. My dad did all his de-rusting with lemon juice because the neighbors had an overhanging lemon tree I haven't seen naval jelly here in Australia but I believe it's a good product for de-rusting?

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Old 09-28-17, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by adventurepdx
ah, the eternal debate!

The "consensus" for best 590 (26" x 1 3/8" or 650A) tyre/tire is between Schwalbe Delta Cruiser* and Panaracer Col Del La Vie.

The Delta Cruisers* are heavier, which is either a plus (flat protection) or a con ("dead" feeling, depending on the rider). They come in different colors, like black, creme, whitewall, gumwall. People like the creme!


The Col De La Vie come in a gumwall (though I have heard rumors of all black) and have a "blocky" tread similar to older tires. They are lighter (more supple) which is a plus ("lively" feeling) or a con (flats!) They are also the "widest" 590 tires. Others are going to be 35 or 37 mm wide, the Col de la Vies are 40.


So choose wisely.

As for other brands, there doesn't seem to be much love for them, at best they are good. Kenda is a mixed bag. I had a set on my Rudge that didn't flat in the couple years I owned the bike (granted, I didn't ride it as much as my other three speed), but I know others have had issues. Conti, Rubena, Michelin, CST have offerings in the 590 size, I don't know much about them.

*Yes, there is the Schwalbe Marathon, which does come in 590, but it's more expensive and harder to find, and no one seems to talk about them, so...
Iím a short but heavier guy at about 190 so Iíd like the deltas more sadly the cream ones in 26 x 1 3/8 are $67 each??
Ouch lol unless you know of a more realistic price somewhere?
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Old 09-28-17, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Scipunk
Iím a short but heavier guy at about 190 so Iíd like the deltas more sadly the cream ones in 26 x 1 3/8 are $67 each??
Ouch lol unless you know of a more realistic price somewhere?
First, I'm heavier than you and use the Col de la Vies. They work for me. I get a flat every once in awhile, but not continuously. And you can always put some puncture seal in the tubes.

Second, where the heck did you get that price for the Delta Cruisers?
You can buy them directly from Schwalbe North America for $25 each, plus shipping. (The one time I bought through them, shipping was pretty reasonable, like $6)
https://www.schwalbetires.com/produc..._to_one=590-37

Staying in the state north of Connecticut, Harris has them for $28 each.
Schwalbe 37-590 26 x 1 3/8 Delta Cruiser Cream w/Reflective Stripe - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts
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Old 09-28-17, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by adventurepdx
First, I'm heavier than you and use the Col de la Vies. They work for me. I get a flat every once in awhile, but not continuously. And you can always put some puncture seal in the tubes.

Second, where the heck did you get that price for the Delta Cruisers?
You can buy them directly from Schwalbe North America for $25 each, plus shipping. (The one time I bought through them, shipping was pretty reasonable, like $6)
https://www.schwalbetires.com/produc..._to_one=590-37

Staying in the state north of Connecticut, Harris has them for $28 each.
Schwalbe 37-590 26 x 1 3/8 Delta Cruiser Cream w/Reflective Stripe - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts
Thank good I thought I was crazy not sure how Harris didnít show up first but I found that silly price here:

https://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Delt.../dp/B009P3LDMM
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