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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 11-23-18, 04:35 PM
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I see some wear on the dark spindle, the other one looks good as do the cups. The first thing that comes to my mind is that you're loosing the adjustment you made with the adjustable cup when you tighten the lock ring. That's easy to do especially if you're using a punch and hammer to tighten the lock ring. The cup will want to turn and over tighten your adjustment. Getting an adjustment is a whole lot easier if you have the correct spanner for the lock ring because you only need one hand which leaves the other free to hold the cup in place. That would be Park Tool # HCW-5. There's also a Park Tool to hold the cup HCW-11 but channel lock pliers work fine too.
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Old 11-23-18, 05:35 PM
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Yeah, the differences between too tight, just right, and too loose on the BB assemblies are really close together. Having the right tools and a lot of patience are essential.
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Old 11-23-18, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
I see some wear on the dark spindle, the other one looks good as do the cups. The first thing that comes to my mind is that you're loosing the adjustment you made with the adjustable cup when you tighten the lock ring. That's easy to do especially if you're using a punch and hammer to tighten the lock ring. The cup will want to turn and over tighten your adjustment. Getting an adjustment is a whole lot easier if you have the correct spanner for the lock ring because you only need one hand which leaves the other free to hold the cup in place. That would be Park Tool # HCW-5. There's also a Park Tool to hold the cup HCW-11 but channel lock pliers work fine too.

Sorry, I should have taken a photo of the whole spindle, this is the original pulled from the Superbe. As for the tools I am using exactly those tools I am using the Park Tool HCW-5 and HCW-11. I also am using the Bikesmith Fixed Cup Tool to pull the fixed cup and making sure it is nice and tight.

Here is what I have tried with the bottom bracket.
1. Tried using original spindle and original cups. Discovered the binding in certain areas. It would spin normal and then bind every now and then.
2. Tried using original cups and different spindle. Same symptoms, spin normal and then bind every now and then.
3. New cups (fixed and adjustable) and new spindle Same symptoms, spin normal and then bind on certain rotations.

I am adjusting to where there is little to no play in the spindle.

Here are the photos.


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Old 11-23-18, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesj
Sorry, I should have taken a photo of the whole spindle, this is the original pulled from the Superbe. As for the tools I am using exactly those tools I am using the Park Tool HCW-5 and HCW-11. I also am using the Bikesmith Fixed Cup Tool to pull the fixed cup and making sure it is nice and tight.

Here is what I have tried with the bottom bracket.
1. Tried using original spindle and original cups. Discovered the binding in certain areas. It would spin normal and then bind every now and then.
2. Tried using original cups and different spindle. Same symptoms, spin normal and then bind every now and then.
3. New cups (fixed and adjustable) and new spindle Same symptoms, spin normal and then bind on certain rotations.

I am adjusting to where there is little to no play in the spindle.

Here are the photos.


Those parts all look fine to me as well.
It's all about the adjusting...
I find installing the cranks and pedals gives a better
feel while adjusting the cup.
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Old 11-23-18, 10:04 PM
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Hmmm im going to have to try this thing again.
thanx for the help.



Originally Posted by gster
Those parts all look fine to me as well.
It's all about the adjusting...
I find installing the cranks and pedals gives a better
feel while adjusting the cup.
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Old 11-24-18, 05:28 AM
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Oh good. Didn't know you had all the good tools. I don't usually remove the fixed cup for a BB servicing, but it's really nice to have Mark's tool handy if you want to. It usually takes me a few times of loosening and re tightening before I'm happy with the adjustment. Such a tiny turn of the cup makes the difference between perfect and too tight. I go by that binding feeling. I keep backing off the cup until just after it spins freely. Sometimes, I think I have it perfect and I give the lock ring a last tightening only to feel it binding and I have to start all over again. It's fussy.
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Old 11-24-18, 07:12 AM
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One more thought: Did you replace the bearings? A fresh set would rule out any deformities.
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Old 11-24-18, 07:44 AM
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From the look of that spindle you either have something that was cross threaded in the past or the BB faces aren't quite parallel.

Aaron
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Old 11-24-18, 08:37 AM
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Fussy is right.
I find that adjusting by the book, i.e no play in the spindle, that it often feels
a little tight, i.e. some resistance. But when the cranks and pedals are installed, the
added momentum/centrifugal action corrects this.
It's difficult to explain on paper...
Once adjusted, you should be good for 10-20 years.
How long do those sealed cartridges last?

A modern day classic...
Raleigh Tourist.

The kick stand looks good....
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Old 11-24-18, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by wahoonc
From the look of that spindle you either have something that was cross threaded in the past or the BB faces aren't quite parallel. I also came across this thread too, same problems I’m having. Think I’ll just build it and ride it. Raleigh 3 speed bottom bracket issue

Aaron

Aaron, I feel like the BB Faces are not parallel which is causing the spindle to bind at certain spots. this might be the case. On my 1979 sport that bottom bracket adjusted perfectly. This one is giving me so much trouble.

Last edited by jamesj; 11-24-18 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 11-24-18, 01:29 PM
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Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed


I just can't decide what to do with this 1969/1970 Sprite. It is a large step-through frame (green) with the original Presstube rack. It must have been stored near pool chemicals or fertilizer since the head badge is corroded a bit. The original downtube shifters were donated to another BF member (left shift lever broken). The rest of the bike is in good condition.I put used trigger shifters on the bars, and worked on getting the bell crank side functional. Now I am thinking that:

I could move the 5 speed rear wheel to a Raleigh Sports that I currently use; and move the 3 speed wheel to the Sprite, and sell it. (that would make the Sprite less desirable)
I could sell the Sprite as it is with a 5 speed rear hub. (that would keep the value)
I could part it out. (probably make the most money, but I hate doing that)

BTW: I have a perfectly good step through frame Raleigh Sports for my dotage; I bought this one because it was there.
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Old 11-24-18, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dweenk

I just can't decide what to do with this 1969/1970 Sprite. It is a large step-through frame (green) with the original Presstube rack. It must have been stored near pool chemicals or fertilizer since the head badge is corroded a bit. The original downtube shifters were donated to another BF member (left shift lever broken). The rest of the bike is in good condition.I put used trigger shifters on the bars, and worked on getting the bell crank side functional. Now I am thinking that:

I could move the 5 speed rear wheel to a Raleigh Sports that I currently use; and move the 3 speed wheel to the Sprite, and sell it. (that would make the Sprite less desirable)
I could sell the Sprite as it is with a 5 speed rear hub. (that would keep the value)
I could part it out. (probably make the most money, but I hate doing that)

BTW: I have a perfectly good step through frame Raleigh Sports for my dotage; I bought this one because it was there.
I think the S5 is a bit wasted on a roadster. That medium ratio spread with the bell crank disengaged is pretty sporty. It would go nicely on a club or scorcher build. Me, I'd swap in an AW and find the stepthrough a new home.
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Old 11-24-18, 03:09 PM
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@BigChief You have reinforced my first choice.
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Old 11-25-18, 11:02 AM
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Haven't had a ride in weeks, no projects going, this is awful. Got to thinking about converting this 70s Sports to a 5 speed with the S5.2 hub I have. Somebody before me laced a CR18 rim onto the 36H AW hub. Done incorrectly, the spokes cross over the air valve. Bugs me. I need to take it apart anyway. Might as well install the S5. Might not be permanent, but a S5 on an alloy rim is always a good thing to have around.

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Old 11-25-18, 02:14 PM
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NOT a three speed, but of interest nonetheless. Plus $20

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/bik...752103086.html
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Old 11-25-18, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Haven't had a ride in weeks, no projects going, this is awful. Got to thinking about converting this 70s Sports to a 5 speed with the S5.2 hub I have. Somebody before me laced a CR18 rim onto the 36H AW hub. Done incorrectly, the spokes cross over the air valve. Bugs me. I need to take it apart anyway. Might as well install the S5. Might not be permanent, but a S5 on an alloy rim is always a good thing to have around.

You definitely should BC... they're such a cool hub to ride with. I've finally started on my S5 project bike. I found an alloy 40 hole AW hub shell locally, and picked up a Resilion front brake as the project bike has no brake drillings. I'm doing this as low budget as possible, so parts collecting has taken a while. I'll post an image once there's a bit more to show; at the moment it's in partly painted pieces.
For the shifting I'd like to do bare cable through a pulley to the hub, so I'm thinking of making a double pulley - has anyone done this for the 2 cable S5 hubs? I've never seen any reference to Sturmey Archer having made one, maybe they did?
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Old 11-25-18, 09:11 PM
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Found a super crappy Sport for $20 bucks. I wasn’t going to buy it but the old lady was nice. And I figured I could just save the parts in case I ever needed them. Rear hub was a shimano coaster laced to RigidaChromage Superchromix 26x1 3/8 rim front is original Sturmey Archer hub and rim. It had a stuck seapost and stuck stem. The stem came out pretty easy but I noticed it was bent. Seatpost was super stuck but I was able to get it out. It is missing fenders, chainguard, and has mismatched brakes. Everything else looked pretty good. Bottom bracket and the headset came apart easily.



Im not sure what im going to do with the frame isn’t bent or anything really wrong with it.












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Old 11-25-18, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by arty dave
You definitely should BC... they're such a cool hub to ride with. I've finally started on my S5 project bike. I found an alloy 40 hole AW hub shell locally, and picked up a Resilion front brake as the project bike has no brake drillings. I'm doing this as low budget as possible, so parts collecting has taken a while. I'll post an image once there's a bit more to show; at the moment it's in partly painted pieces.
For the shifting I'd like to do bare cable through a pulley to the hub, so I'm thinking of making a double pulley - has anyone done this for the 2 cable S5 hubs? I've never seen any reference to Sturmey Archer having made one, maybe they did?
I never liked the idea of running a fully housed cable all the way down to a stop on the chain stay for 3 speed hubs. The top tube stop and guide wheel feels so much more responsive and precise. A sprite I have originally had two top tube mounted stick shifters with full housed cables to a stop on the seat stays on both sides. I changed the right side 3 speed to the usual top tube stop and guide wheel and handlebar mounted 3 speed trigger. For the left side bell crank, I used a handlebar mounted SunTour power shifter, fully housed cable along the top tube to the original stop on the seat stay. Works well, but now that I look at it, I think the top tube looks too cluttered with all those cables. This time, I think I'll route the bell crank cable along the down tube to a stop on the chain stay. I am satisfied with a fully housed cable to operate the bell crank.
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Old 11-25-18, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
I never liked the idea of running a fully housed cable all the way down to a stop on the chain stay for 3 speed hubs. The top tube stop and guide wheel feels so much more responsive and precise. A sprite I have originally had two top tube mounted stick shifters with full housed cables to a stop on the seat stays on both sides. I changed the right side 3 speed to the usual top tube stop and guide wheel and handlebar mounted 3 speed trigger. For the left side bell crank, I used a handlebar mounted SunTour power shifter, fully housed cable along the top tube to the original stop on the seat stay. Works well, but now that I look at it, I think the top tube looks too cluttered with all those cables. This time, I think I'll route the bell crank cable along the down tube to a stop on the chain stay. I am satisfied with a fully housed cable to operate the bell crank.
That was another option I was contemplating - and you're right, with a rear brake cable there might be too much action on the top tube. I have a bike set up with a Sachs 3 speed coaster hub, and that's running bare cable from a stop on the down tube through a pulley at the bottom of the seat tube. I've read that some people don't like this routing as you can snag your heel on the bare cable, but I've never experienced this. A chain guard would easily take care of this if it was an issue.
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Old 11-26-18, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by arty dave
That was another option I was contemplating - and you're right, with a rear brake cable there might be too much action on the top tube. I have a bike set up with a Sachs 3 speed coaster hub, and that's running bare cable from a stop on the down tube through a pulley at the bottom of the seat tube. I've read that some people don't like this routing as you can snag your heel on the bare cable, but I've never experienced this. A chain guard would easily take care of this if it was an issue.
The hub I have is a S5.2 from the early 80s. It doesn't have a bell crank. The left side has an indicator spindle and chain like the right side, so it operates the other way around. Medium ratios are with the cable tight and wide is slack cable. I hope it works as well as the bell crank, we'll see. It came with the top tube shifters, but I won't use them. Back in the day, the convenience of handlebar shifting was unique to IG hubs and is something I always appreciated about these bikes. TT shifting seems awkward and unnecessary to me.
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Old 11-26-18, 12:20 PM
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https://denver.craigslist.org/bik/d/...757531064.html

Craigslist Denver, CO - For sale in Longmont, CO

VERY RARE 1954 Rudge-Whitworth 3-speed bicycle - $350

(Not my CL posting, just sharing in case anyone here is interested)
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Old 11-26-18, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by arty dave
I've read that some people don't like this routing as you can snag your heel on the bare cable, but I've never experienced this. A chain guard would easily take care of this if it was an issue.
The main problem the bottom routing is that an SA hubs finicky gear adjustment will be altered with any axle movement in the dropouts, for instance if you slide the wheel back in the drops to take up chain slack. A top mounted pulley/cable intersects with the axle perpendicular to the the drops so the gears remain more or less unaffected by wheel adjustments. As BC suggests, it tends to stay more precise.
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Old 11-26-18, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Stenavpix

https://denver.craigslist.org/bik/d/...757531064.html

Craigslist Denver, CO - For sale in Longmont, CO

VERY RARE 1954 Rudge-Whitworth 3-speed bicycle - $350

(Not my CL posting, just sharing in case anyone here is interested)
Seems overpriced to me considering the step through frame and plastic saddle. But is does have a dyno hub.
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Old 11-26-18, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DQRider
Looking great! Are these the original bars? Flipped north roads or something else? Did you do some ageing to the metal parts of the grips?
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Old 11-26-18, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
Nice progress! That extra bit of chrome bling below the fork crown adds a really nice touch to the look of the bike.
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