What is wrong with tis Paramount?
07-09-10 | 12:49 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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What is wrong with tis Paramount?
https://stockton.craigslist.org/bik/1794646141.html
It's been listed for several weeks now. Bad economy...maybe. The price seems reasonable. You get a nice frame and a Superbe group. Is there something off?
I know it's not a super vintage Paramount but it is not a PDG Paramount. I'm going to investigate this one if I get enough capital.
It's been listed for several weeks now. Bad economy...maybe. The price seems reasonable. You get a nice frame and a Superbe group. Is there something off?
I know it's not a super vintage Paramount but it is not a PDG Paramount. I'm going to investigate this one if I get enough capital.
07-09-10 | 12:55 PM
#3
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,045
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From: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
https://stockton.craigslist.org/bik/1794646141.html
It's been listed for several weeks now. Bad economy...maybe. The price seems reasonable. You get a nice frame and a Superbe group. Is there something off?
I know it's not a super vintage Paramount but it is not a PDG Paramount.
It's been listed for several weeks now. Bad economy...maybe. The price seems reasonable. You get a nice frame and a Superbe group. Is there something off?
I know it's not a super vintage Paramount but it is not a PDG Paramount.
I think 80's Paramounts are underpriced generally - I've seen some very nice ones sell in that same general price range, not that that one's not nice and worth the asking price.
07-09-10 | 01:05 PM
#4
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Tampa, Florida
1. Big frame. Deduct for anything >58cm
2. Its ugly.
3. The tires dont match
4. The economys down.
Waterford framesets are going in the $250-275 range. At $500 for the bike in question your looking at more than build cost.
2. Its ugly.
3. The tires dont match
4. The economys down.
Waterford framesets are going in the $250-275 range. At $500 for the bike in question your looking at more than build cost.
07-09-10 | 01:14 PM
#5
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 15,946
Likes: 371
From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
Can you really get a Suntour Superbe group for $250...and still have wheels, saddle and bars?
07-09-10 | 01:14 PM
#6
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,045
Likes: 15
From: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
Less common graphics, though, which makes it kind of cool. I personally don't think it's way overpriced, if at all, given the condition. Better pics might help - I think that bikes is/was owned by a forum member. That said, Waterford Paramounts don't often get top dollar, despite the quality.
07-09-10 | 01:20 PM
#8
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 15,946
Likes: 371
From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
If you can manage to find that kind of pricing on a regular basis...I'm impressed. I can't. I think to build that frame up for most people...with a Superbe group...he'll be in at least $750 when all is said and done, even with the market hurting.
A superbe group sold buy it now on ebay for $500 last week...it didn't last long either. That still leaves wheels, bars and stem....housings...tape and cables.
A superbe group sold buy it now on ebay for $500 last week...it didn't last long either. That still leaves wheels, bars and stem....housings...tape and cables.
07-09-10 | 01:21 PM
#9
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Based on the tri-color decal set, isn’t that a pretty rare Waterford Paramount circa 1983 or so? They didn’t use them for very long before they began using the more standard Paramount decal set that’s more familiar to folks.
To help his/her sale, the seller should include more details/much larger photos of the bike/components…people aren’t going to waste their time contacting a seller (especially at a higher price point) without better/more detailed info
To help his/her sale, the seller should include more details/much larger photos of the bike/components…people aren’t going to waste their time contacting a seller (especially at a higher price point) without better/more detailed info
07-09-10 | 01:34 PM
#11
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,629
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From: Spring, TX
If you can manage to find that kind of pricing on a regular basis...I'm impressed. I can't. I think to build that frame up for most people...with a Superbe group...he'll be in at least $750 when all is said and done, even with the market hurting.
A superbe group sold buy it now on ebay for $500 last week...it didn't last long either. That still leaves wheels, bars and stem....housings...tape and cables.
A superbe group sold buy it now on ebay for $500 last week...it didn't last long either. That still leaves wheels, bars and stem....housings...tape and cables.
07-09-10 | 01:46 PM
#12
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,190
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From: Portsmouth, NH
07-09-10 | 02:32 PM
#14
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,045
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From: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
Just reminds me how far Joe has come in the vintage bike world since he first landed on our doorstep not so long ago ... I'm tearing up just thinking about it ...
07-09-10 | 02:38 PM
#15
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,973
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From: Tampa, Florida
If you can manage to find that kind of pricing on a regular basis...I'm impressed. I can't. I think to build that frame up for most people...with a Superbe group...he'll be in at least $750 when all is said and done, even with the market hurting.
A superbe group sold buy it now on ebay for $500 last week...it didn't last long either. That still leaves wheels, bars and stem....housings...tape and cables.
A superbe group sold buy it now on ebay for $500 last week...it didn't last long either. That still leaves wheels, bars and stem....housings...tape and cables.
07-09-10 | 02:39 PM
#16
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,045
Likes: 15
From: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
07-09-10 | 03:36 PM
#19
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,629
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From: Spring, TX
07-09-10 | 04:08 PM
#20
Thrifty Bill
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Mans of NC & SW UT Desert
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more
To me, the problem is location. If you are going to sell a bike to a local market, then the local economy is going to impact how well you can do on the bike. A couple of years ago, Stockton, CA lead the country in foreclosures. Hopefully it is doing better now.
From a 2010 news article:
"STOCKTON, Calif. — Stockton hardly looks like the most miserable city in the country. But the statistics and stories over the last two years make a case that it is: Since the housing crisis began, this inland port city 80 miles east of San Francisco has had one of the worst foreclosure rates in the country – for most of the time, the worst. At the height of it, about 1 in 10 houses fell to foreclosure. Houses that sold for more than $500,000 before the crash now go for $200,000. In some neighborhoods, fixer-uppers cost less than a new Honda Fit – under $20,000.
"Welcome to Foreclosureville, U.S.A."
City officials say they fully expect Stockton to shake the title in 2010 (it's recently dropped to No. 4 or 5). But how far away from the top can it go? The population of 290,400 is strapped. Up to two-thirds of homeowners owe more on their properties than the houses are now worth. Housing values have dropped more than 60 percent since the height of the boom four years ago, more than any other city."
From a 2010 news article:
"STOCKTON, Calif. — Stockton hardly looks like the most miserable city in the country. But the statistics and stories over the last two years make a case that it is: Since the housing crisis began, this inland port city 80 miles east of San Francisco has had one of the worst foreclosure rates in the country – for most of the time, the worst. At the height of it, about 1 in 10 houses fell to foreclosure. Houses that sold for more than $500,000 before the crash now go for $200,000. In some neighborhoods, fixer-uppers cost less than a new Honda Fit – under $20,000.
"Welcome to Foreclosureville, U.S.A."
City officials say they fully expect Stockton to shake the title in 2010 (it's recently dropped to No. 4 or 5). But how far away from the top can it go? The population of 290,400 is strapped. Up to two-thirds of homeowners owe more on their properties than the houses are now worth. Housing values have dropped more than 60 percent since the height of the boom four years ago, more than any other city."
07-09-10 | 05:43 PM
#21
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,045
Likes: 15
From: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
To me, the problem is location. If you are going to sell a bike to a local market, then the local economy is going to impact how well you can do on the bike. A couple of years ago, Stockton, CA lead the country in foreclosures. Hopefully it is doing better now.
From a 2010 news article:
"STOCKTON, Calif. — Stockton hardly looks like the most miserable city in the country. But the statistics and stories over the last two years make a case that it is: Since the housing crisis began, this inland port city 80 miles east of San Francisco has had one of the worst foreclosure rates in the country – for most of the time, the worst. At the height of it, about 1 in 10 houses fell to foreclosure. Houses that sold for more than $500,000 before the crash now go for $200,000. In some neighborhoods, fixer-uppers cost less than a new Honda Fit – under $20,000.
"Welcome to Foreclosureville, U.S.A."
City officials say they fully expect Stockton to shake the title in 2010 (it's recently dropped to No. 4 or 5). But how far away from the top can it go? The population of 290,400 is strapped. Up to two-thirds of homeowners owe more on their properties than the houses are now worth. Housing values have dropped more than 60 percent since the height of the boom four years ago, more than any other city."
From a 2010 news article:
"STOCKTON, Calif. — Stockton hardly looks like the most miserable city in the country. But the statistics and stories over the last two years make a case that it is: Since the housing crisis began, this inland port city 80 miles east of San Francisco has had one of the worst foreclosure rates in the country – for most of the time, the worst. At the height of it, about 1 in 10 houses fell to foreclosure. Houses that sold for more than $500,000 before the crash now go for $200,000. In some neighborhoods, fixer-uppers cost less than a new Honda Fit – under $20,000.
"Welcome to Foreclosureville, U.S.A."
City officials say they fully expect Stockton to shake the title in 2010 (it's recently dropped to No. 4 or 5). But how far away from the top can it go? The population of 290,400 is strapped. Up to two-thirds of homeowners owe more on their properties than the houses are now worth. Housing values have dropped more than 60 percent since the height of the boom four years ago, more than any other city."
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