I got a Shogun at a garage sale a few months ago for $15. I figure, at that price, how could I go wrong?

I just spent an entire day fixing it up. I'm getting $260 for it, and I've put in few materials, so I guess it's a win. But it's a big lesson.

I had a panic and thought the fork was bent, so I took it out to examine it. No, it's straight. OK, so customer gets a free headset overhaul.

Actually, I started working on this bike months ago and put it aside. Now I had to find all the parts. My shop is a disgraceful mess all the time. I don't know where the tires went or even the freewheel.

I think I found the right freewheel. It's a nice old gold Shimano.

I started working on the wheels. The front is good, but the hub makes a creaking sound. Overhaul it, and it's good. I guess there was some dust in there or something.

The rear isn't good. The rim is bent. Let's see, do I want to replace the rim, or can I fix it? I've bent rims back into shape. I removed the spokes at the bent part, put a 2x4 in there, and smack the 2x4 with a hammer. OK, that looks better. But I tension the spoke and suddenly the wheel is a taco. Poop. This wheel is toast.

This rear wheel is weird. It's a Sovos(?) hub and a Weinmann rim. Someone clearly replaced the rear wheel at some point. The hub is made in Taiwan. Not as nice as Shimano but definitely good enough.

Meanwhile, I do a string test and ascertain that the rear triangle of the frame is straight.

I know a bit about the history of the bike. Someone came into my shop some time ago and recognized it as his former bike. He commuted on it for many years and had calculated that he put 60,000 miles on it! He gave it up when he realized that the bike no longer owed him anything. There's rust all over, but it looks worth fixing.

My customer is a woman who is competing in her first triathlon next month. It's a tiny one with a 12 mile bike portion. She doesn't need a pretty bike. She might buy my Hercules 3-speed for nostalgia's sake. That will be her pretty bike.

The bike has 27" wheels. Look around. Do I have a 27" rim? As a matter of fact, I have a brand new one, but it's built onto a front wheel. Well, it will be a lot of work, but I can do this.

I could use the old spokes, if the rim is the same size. The spokes appear to be in good shape, but a few have been replaced, and I don't feel like doing this much work with questionable spokes. It's more pleasant to use new spokes.

I don't have a spoke gauge, and I don't feel like measuring the rim or spokes or finding a spoke calculator. I decided to do it like my first boss would build wheels. He'd just guess at spoke sizes and if he was wrong, he'd start over again. The new spokes are about the same size as the old ones, except, of course, they're all the same size, i.e. the rights are not shorter than the lefts, and they should be.

So I built the wheel. I timed myself at 15 minutes to lace the wheel. Not bad, huh? Ah, but the spokes are too long. It's a 36-spoke wheel, and I did it 3-cross, which is how it was. So I tried 4-cross. I really like 4-cross. It looks cool. This is what my first boss did; he'd start with 3-cross, and if the spokes were too long, he'd go to 4-cross before trying another spoke size. And I don't have a whole lot of spoke sizes sitting around. Well, waddya know, 4-cross works. It's a nice wheel.

Well, guess what. That wasn't the wheel that came with the bike. As I'm walking around, I notice the real original wheel. So maybe I gave this customer more time and materials than I should have. But I'll be darned if I'm going to take a look at that filthy wheel. It might be good, but it could be bad, too.

Everything else on the bike needs work, too, except for the bottom bracket. I see it's been replaced with a cartridge bearing BB. I tried taking the crank dustcaps off to make sure the fixing bolts are tight, but the dust caps are rusted on, and my allen key spins in the dust caps. I could fix that, but I won't.

The shifters are stiff with rust. So are the derailleurs. Got that fixed.

The rear brake pads were worn, so I moved the fronts to the rear. They're Shimano. I put Kool Stops in the front. I don't normally put Kool Stops on bikes I sell, but I'm treating this woman well, and I'm only giving her one pair. If she twists my arm, I'll even give her a second pair.

The shifters are really tricky. They have a spring in them. It took me a while to figure them out. When I'm done, they feel just like Simplex Retrofriction shifters. Extra cool. Anyone ever heard of these, made by Shimano? I think this is a late 80's bike, made just before index shifting.

OK, everything is on the bike and tuned up and adjusted. I've had to oil or grease absolutely everything. It's weird, because everything was rusty, yet everything let me fix it.

I found some nice old Specialized Turbo II tires from the early 80's. They're not dry rotted, and they're the best 27" tires I have at the moment. I could put on some worse ones, but I want this woman to have a good bike.

Time to grease the seatpost, just for good measure. Oh crap. It's stuck. I should be checking that first, not last.

Oh man. I'm screwed. This bike is useless if I can't move the seatpost. It's a Laprade type of seatpost. The brand says Strong. Who ever heard of a Strong brand seatpost? I bang on the seat with a mallet. Aha, it's moving. Oh, no, it's not. That's just the seat bracket mechanism giving way. OK, so I have to take the bracket apart. Oh uh. That's rusted shut, too. Well, with a lot of turning force, I get it free, but the bolt is heavily rusted. I get it all apart and brush the threads with a brass brush. OK, it works. Put it back together. Bang the seat again with a mallet. No good. I'm just taking apart the bracket again.

Take the wheels off. Luckily, the seatpost has a nice top to it that I can clamp in my vise. Clamp the seatpost in the vice and use the frame as the lever. I have been using WD40 every few minutes. Turn like hell, bracing my foot against the workbench. Hallelujah. It starts to turn, making very loud creaking noises. Holy crap, the frame is getting hot.

Well, I did get it out. I brushed the seatpost off with a brass wheel brush in my drill. I ran a half round file up and down the seatpost, too, using oil. I clean it out. I pushed the seatpost in and cleaned it off several times until it came out clean. Add lots of grease. It goes in and out very well now.

Test ride it.

Excellent!

Lessons learned?

Test things in order of value if it can't be fixed. As wrk101 says, check the seatpost before you even acquire the bike. Do that with the stem, too.

Check the straightness of the frame and fork early on.

See if the wheels can be trued easily. I don't know of an easy way to do this, but I'd love to develop one.

Also, while I don't regret this project, it's pretty silly. I think I get an ego boost doing mechanical fixes that other mechanics can't or won't do. It's proof of my machismo or something. But it's not actually worth it. I could be flipping racing bikes which are easier to work on and are not generally as neglected as this one was. And the profit would be much higher.

My customer already appreciates what I did. I called her before I found out about the seatpost but after I built the wheel. She feels I've done too much for her.

I will post pictures soon. I think I have "before" pictures of the bike. It was a super-wreck when I got it. It only looks half bad now. But it rides great.

Lessons learned:

-This thread is worthless without pics.

kthxbai.

I said they're coming!

I'm exhausted. My shoulders hurt. I'm covered with sweat.

Oh, I know what you said.

I'm just pulling your leg, Tom. It sounds like quite an experience! I look forward to seeing the machine!

You work as hard and are as thorough in your overhauls as I am, Tom. Keep up the good work.

My other basic rule is if the frame paint is shot, the bike becomes a donor. If it is a cool looking frame, I'll store it away as a frameset (they don't take up much space), waiting for either powdercoating to get really cheap, vintage bike prices to get really high, or for my painting skills to improve.

My shop is a huge mess too. I try to at least zip tie matching wheels together, and tag them with which bike they came from. When I strip a bike, the parts go in a box, labeled with what bike they came off of. System is no where close to foolproof, as I don't always do it.

That bike might bring $100 in my market. And at $100, I really can't mess around with them, so this would be a part out.

+1 Redoing all bearings (new bearings and grease) is a given on any bike I flip, plus replacement of any worn brake pads. Anything rusty: frame, bolts, fasteners, etc., gets the oxalic treatment. I keep a bucket of OA solution after each rust campaign to handle small stuff.

You have quite a racket going there. $260 for that piece of crap? Yes, your labor and frustration are worth that, but it doesn't sound like the market would bear that kind of price on what you describe. However, from reading some of your posts, it's obvious you are good at developing relationships with your customers and enjoy providing service. And of course, it's worth whatever that particular customer is willing to pay. Your write up is definitely a good marketing tool for making the customer feel obligated to pay the full amount for a rust bucket.

I've been offered several opportunities to build bikes for a 'customer' and I've usually turned it down, reasoning the 'hidden' problems of the type you encountered would crop up. I did it once for an acquaintance, offering a Panasonic DX-3000 for $50 and offering to help him overhaul it. He offered more, but I figured I'd be a good guy. I ended up overhauling it myself, and he has yet to pay the $50. I could easily have flipped it for $250. Incidentally, every bearing was overhauled with new bearing balls and grease - I consider that a given on any flip for which I ask a 'premium' price.

wrk101, you should write a book, or at least a web site, chronicling all the tips and principles you have amassed. I learn from you all the time.

Yes, it's really amazing how much I manage to get for my bikes. I guess it's because I give a ton of my expertise, and people trust me. It's also amazing how well my ugly bikes sell. Normally, appearance affects the price and salability of things, but it hasn't been so for me. I feel guilty every time I don't shine a bike up, but so many of these women triathletes I've sold to don't care about it. They just want to get off their heavy old bikes. I just remembered this customer rode a heavy old bike last year, and this is not her first triathlon. She was humiliated at how others passed her effortlessly, and she knew that the bike was a factor.

She just came and picked it up. Gave it a very quick test ride and was so amazed at how nice it is, compared with her old bike. She hugged me as she went away.

One thing that seems to help is that I give a lot of time talking to the customer. I spent over an hour talking to her leading up to the sale. She knows I'm saving her money compared with buying a new bike, and she knows this bike will work well, so she didn't blink at the price. Didn't even try to negotiate it. I'm also going to put a computer on it. Cost to me, about $14, and she agreed to pay $40, including installation.

I often take shortcuts on these bikes, but I didn't on this one. Given all it's been through, I didn't want one of my shortcuts to come back to me. That's why I went ahead with the new wheel, even though I probably could have gotten away with the original wheel or at least the new rim and the old spokes.

I also had to change the chain. The chain wasn't stretched, but it was made of two different chains, and one of the links was bent and ready to snap. I could have fixed it, but this bike deserved a new chain.

Here's a before picture. Note the sorry looking seat.



Here's an after picture. I shot the after pictures in the night.



See the entire set here, including several before and after pictures.

Some time ago, I cleaned the cranks and chainrings.

I also had to drill the valve hole of the new rim to accept a shrader valve.

noglider,

That's not a hunk of junk it's a beauty, and the time and effort you put into it commanded a good price. Hey, I have an old junker too I suppose. I wouldn't sell mine for $250.00

+1 Doesn't look rusty to me, I would adjust my local estimate to the $175 mark (assuming cromoly frame).

Tom that was the best thread I have read in a long time. It can happen to any of us no matter how many bikes we have flipped. I did the same thing ONCE but never did it again. I have flipped 300+ bikes and I must admit there have been some big losers in there. Thanks for the great thread.
Ed

Every unpainted bit of steel is rusted, and even some painted portions of the frame are. I had to unseize and grease virtually everything on the bike. But I had a feeling it would ride well. And that feeling was borne out.

EddyR, I had a feeling that a thread with lots of details would satisfy a few people. You and I must have similar tastes. And 300+ is a lot. How long have you been doing it? I've only been doing it for a few years, and only the last year has been serious, so to speak.

Tom I have been flipping bikes for only four years and almost nothing in the last year. I was flipping 2-3 Centurions a week Cannondales just as fast. The market has changed and my sources for bikes has fried up. I have been flipping high end audio equipment for 8 years and that gave me the know how to do it. Big pictures on CL using Photo Bucket helps a lot. I bought tires in bulk and got a lot of parts from Loose Screws. I am retires so I would pick up bikes during the week and sell them on the weekend. I would answer a add for one bike and end up getting two. I was not buying any junkers,only clean bikes. I only used CL never Ebay.
Ed

I got a email from the customer today:

Then she wrote again, a minute later:

Dude you could get away with being a little less modest about the condition of that bike

The final product is a real beauty and I think the price would be justified even if you weren't the good bicycle Samaritan you are.

Seriously, great lookin bike...and I think for this market its a perfectly reasonable price considering the quality. I'd love to have one of those as a commuter. Heck Its even about my size.

Great job Tom. The rust isn't bad at all. Just had a similar experience with spokes. Started with 3 cross, then went to four - then found some shorter ones, laced them up four cross and everything is fine. Still had to lace the wheel three times and I'm about three minutes over your time, but I prefer to check and double check as I'm never too confident until there's a bit of tension in the rim. I can see why your customer is so pleased with the bike and the care you've put into it for her. Word of mouth and Facebook should get you more work. Well done!

No, my modesty over the condition is not overstated. The pictures don't capture how bad it is. It's BAY-ud. But the bike functions very well, and I won't be modest about that.

It's really running well now, for a bike with 60,000 miles on it. Honestly, I've never heard of a bike going that far.

It is a really nice bike, and yes, it's a 58cm frame. The woman isn't as tall as I am, so she may eventually complain that the reach is too long. So if she wants to sell it, I'll send her to you. She'll probably ask for less than what she paid for it.

Who made the Japanese-made Shoguns? Anyone know?

And has anyone ever heard of a Shimano shifter that worked like a Simplex Retrofriction? I haven't, and it's really lovely. You hardly have to touch the lever, and it just does what you want it to, with no indexing.

I have a set or two of those. Shimano L422. I think they went with the 80's Light Action stuff.

I used them for a little while with a set of Suntour CYclone Derailleurs. They worked pretty much the same as a Suntour power ratchet.