have you seen the cetma cargo bike? Really pricey. Kinda neat that it puts the cargo in the front though, while still keeping it down low. I know with my son it's nice to be able to keep in eye on him...

https://cetmacargo.com/CETMAcargoindex.htm

There are a variety of Long John type cargo bikes; Bilenky makes one, for example. They're something like my Counerpoint Opus II tandem, with a smaller front wheel steered with a linkage, but instead of the stoker lounging around on a beach chair out front, you have a cargo box. Being able to see the front of the bike is an advantage; I can maneuver the tandem through remarkably tight spots, whereas the xtracycle is a little trickier on turns.

The front wheel looks like it would make for insanely twitchy steering, though that may be in place to make up for the long wheel base. it just looks odd to me.

right. The Bilenky one , the load sits a lot higher I think, so I don't think it would be great for having "moving" cargo in it like kids.


i bet it is. I can tell you that the steering on my giant posted above was super twitchy and annoying in the short wheel base version, but isnt as noticable now. I'm still not a huge fan of my body poition while riding it though so I'll probably play around the the bars a bit, and like I said i'll probably bolt this thing to a road bike in another month or two.

^^You speculate, sir!

On the Opus II, steering is remarkably stable even when the stoker moves around. And what they ususally move is arms, shoulders, head; all quite high up, and it still doesn't bother the handling of the bike. It makes a difference, of course; but it's a bicycle. You're always correcting for balance issues; you're perpetually steering into a fall. The Cargo, bless their little hearts, can move around as much as they want to without upsetting the balance of the bike.

i might not have been clear but I was indeed speculating...about the Bilenky bike.

But since you mention, the Opus has a front recumbent mesh seat right? That pretty much keeps that rider in the same spot in relation to the frame.

I was thinking about using one of the large cargo "boxes" in the front like the Bilenky bike does. Then I'm thinking about my son break dancing in it. I'd imagine that would have some affect on handling, especially the higher the load is.

But I've never ridden the Bilenky bike so who knows.

yeah, my son would be jumping out of that:

It does look like it would be twitchy as hell.

I built my own extrabike 3 years ago and it has been solid... like holiday I find it to be an awesome winter bike as well as an awesome summer bike.

Being in Portland for the last month I have seen many Cetma cargo bikes and similar models bombing all over the place carrying all kinds of cargo... they are used by messenger companies here and one pizza company uses this type of cargo bike for deliveries as well.

Don't give up! I don't think it'd be too hard for you to find an older steel touring frame. I ended up using an ROSS Mt Hood XC, pretty heavy, but it has cantilever brakes. I removed all the stickers (except for the headbadge sticker to give ROSS its due, i guess) and added a free radical to build this up:
https://www.jpbikeresearch.com/2009/04/the-ride/

^Nice! Great photo.

This, and many other cargo designs, are becoming common in Manhattan. Manhattan has been under an incredible cycling transformation like never before. I never would have predicted it. At red lights, when cyclists actually stop for red lights, a crowd of cyclists accumulates at the intersection.

You'd have to make sure, somehow, that the kids don't fall asleep. How do you do that?

So Brian, which free radical kit did you get? I'd love one, but they're expensive.

Having seen the 8 freight with such short trail and so many other long designs with much longer trail....What's the best choice for a conversion frame? An old slack-angled MTB or a Road bike?

i'ts confusing because I pieced the kit together over two orders. At first I just ordered the bare frame with v-racks which allow you to use your own panniers. Then I found out the racks were on backorder, and during that time I decided to just go ahead and order the freeloaders (the bags) and the top part. If you order it all together you get a discount.

In a few months I will probably order at least one of the child seats for it as well.

I think I have about $500 into it, but I havent done the math because I prefer to be in the dark on that matter

I ordered from these guys:

BIKETRAILERSHOP.COM

i don't know but I'll be able to tell you soon. I'm going to be moving mine over to a road bike. I'm just not a big fan of MTB's for getting comfy and they feel so slow..

Did you read this review? The 8 Freight's designer, Mike Burrows, is a man of strong and sometimes radical opinions, one of the foremost bicycle designers of our age. Whether he's right or wrong, I will not venture an opinion, unless he sends me an 8 Freight to try (in which case, I'll be sure to post a completely objective review)(Mike, you reading this?)(pm me!).

Think about this, though. Turning the handlebar of a bike with a 90 degree fork angle does not lift the front end of the bike any higher from the road; relax that angle, and offset it a bit, and now turning the handlebar does lift the front end of the bike up higher. So if you have a lot of weight on the front wheel, that weight will naturally resist the effort to steer the bike to some degree. So Burrows' low trail design must be pretty easy to steer.

well, we haven't gone on really long rides with this setup -- mostly just around town. We also have a double trail a bike, which keeps 'em moving so as not to fall asleep. I believe the days of pulling the trailer with napping kids is over for me sadly. During our vacation in Amsterdam last summer, the kids passed out big time in the bakfiets cargo area. it was delightful, but there's no way we're getting one of those here...

Isn't this what's referred to as wheel flop? The more wheel flop, the more sluggish and resistant the steering becomes. It's proportional with trail: the higher the trail, the higher the wheel flop. I think (and I am by no means certain on this) that that's why bikes designed either for a really heavy front load (like porteur bikes) or heavy all around loads (like tandems) are usually designed with low trail forks. It's also why high trail bikes make it easy to ride no-hands.

See, I don't need to see posts like this. The one bike that I need to let go of is my very non C&V Trek 4300 MTB (2004). And I keep deciding that I'll keep it & Xtra-fy it. I don't need to do that. I really don't.

Dammit.

I feel safer riding in NYC than I do up here in my town. Seriously. It's amazing, and it's got my attention...

I just picked up a 700c Xtracycle on craigslist. I'm in the process of mounting it to a 71 SuperCourse I've been riding as my all-around bike. If I can get the brakes hooked up right (I need cantilevers to mount on the rear) then I'll be able to test it out. It looks really cool, and my kids are anxious for their chance to get a "ride" seated on the deck.

My extrabike has been out on loan for the past few months and I will get it back this weekend so I can carry some stuff to a winter event down in the river valley.

I plan to carry 10 gallons of water (100 pounds right there), a decent bundle of wood, and put food stuff in my rear pannier bags... could also load up the front bags if needed and will have about 200 pounds of gear because of the water.

This is why I have an extrabike.