Good to know that the nut also provides the tension - easy enough to do. Too bad they didn't work in a fixing screw to keep the plate from flying though.

-Kurt

What washer? There's no washer. Be careful about using a wrench on the pivot bolt. That's the end of it you see in the picture above. If you apply too much torque, it will spin in the plate with the tab and you'll have no spring tension. It doesn't take much. I learned that the hard way. There's really no need to use a wrench at all. Just tighten the bolt from the backside. The pivot bolt won't turn because the tab stops it.

The pivot bolt is actually a nut in this application because the threads are female.

You are correct, that is not a washer. Pardon me for using incorrect terminology. I have corrected the original post. However in this case, as the plate is not installed on the pivot bolt, the OP will need to use an allen wrench in order to pretension the spring to install the plate on the pivot bolt in the correct position. To further clarify for the OP, note there are flats on the pivot bolt and in the mounting hole of the plate so that it won't just spin. You may have to tap or press the plate onto the pivot bolt. Once that is done, it can be mounted, making sure the tab is on the front side of the hanger, and the retaining bolt can be installed. If done correctly the derailleur will swing toward the back of the bike. The picture I shared earlier shows the correct orientation of the plate.

I think you might call it a "Keyed spring plate"....?

Chombi

I'm trying to rotate the spring end clockwise 180 degrees using an allen key on the other side, then place the tabbed-washer-whatever (A) in to place (as shown in CV-6's pic above).

The problem is, once I get to about the 45 degrees, the keyed-spring-plate-whatever (B) seems to have a rounded out hole, so when I rotate the hanger bold (C), the spring doesn't turn with. I don't think this was originally the case--I think the center hole in B has been rounded off!

Suncake, if you can't get it to work, send it back. Remind me how much I charged you for the lot via PM so I can refund you on it.

Seems to explain why some Simplex RD's loose their springiness - that one part getting rounded out.

-Kurt

So to confirm: Part B should have a flattened cutout a la Part A?

I haven't given up hope yet. If I can somehow rotate the spring 180 degrees and get Part A pressed onto Part C (with B sandwiched in the middle), it shouldn't matter whether B is rounded out or not, no?

How to do that though...time to get creative.

I am not sure. Let me look at one of mine tomorrow AM and get back to you.

^^Much appreciated, CV-6.

Here's an exploded parts diagram from Robert Broderick's velo-pages.com Gallery (see the bottom part, the SLJ):



It doesn't seem likely to me that the "cup" piece B would be keyed; looks like it's just there to contain the wound spring.

My bet is that to install and tension the spring, you put your part A (3563L) into place on the back side of the derailer, put those on the edge of a table top or some other flat surface to hold them together, install the cup B (3561) and the spring (3885) from the outer side (through the holes in parts A + B), wind the spring up from the exterior and hold its free end into the slot in the edge of the casting (more easily seen in the bottom section of the exploded view) using a flat, thin implement, and then install the pivot bolt, keying it into part A. But I've never taken one apart yet.

I'm not sure of that. From the explanation in this thread (and simply from looking at the RD in pieces for the first time), 3876 (the top bolt) engages the flats on 3561, which is tied to spring 3885. In short, by turning #3876, one tensions or de-tensions 3885 by spinning 3561. 3563L is simply slid onto 3876 when the spring is at the right position.


Keep us informed, Lynn. If you find yourself short on time, I'll pull apart the gold 5000 on my PY10.


Don't get creative; you're probably right about 3561 - and if that is the case, I'd like to buy the RD back. It'll give you an opportunity to put your funds towards an intact one.

In the meantime, I'll probably be able to roustle up a junker SLJ down here for that part and fix it.

-Kurt

Is it possible that you have to "tension" the spring (by rotating it, via allen key on the other side of the mounting bolt) in order to get it into the other hole?

I believe that's the general idea, but the flats on the mounting bolt (nut) apparently spin part #3561, which tensions the spring.

-Kurt

Kurt has it figured out. It's a weakness in the design of these derailers

I had to take back an SX610 that I sold when this happened to it, even though I knew that it wasn't in that condition when I shipped it. I ended up converting it to use with a claw by changing the pivot bolt and eliminating #3563L. It's on my Jeunet now.

Beautiful pic ^

Grand Bois - do you know if the SX610 and SX410 use the same sleeve as on the SLJ's? If so, I might be able to send the OP a replacement.

-Kurt

I have an SX610 in my hand right now and I can say for certain that the SX610 part won't work due to the angle of the dangle of the drop parallelogram design.

When I had the same problem, I contemplated silver soldering the parts. I never got around to trying it.

By "sleeve", you don't mean #3561 do you? That's what I would call a sleeve and it has nothing to do with the problem.

Figured as much - that leaves the SX410.

-Kurt

Work has called, so I am out of this for now. Hopefully Kurt can follow up on his SLJ.

On another note...after seeing the exploded drawing, I am thinking I had the procedure all wrong.

Suncake was right all along. Pictures and video pending.

-Kurt

The derailer. Note 3563L's position while the RD is under tension from the chain.



Careful persuasion removes 3563L from the top nut. It is imperative for safety (and to keep 3563L from flying into your face) to turn 3876 clockwise so that 3563L's tab is not resting against the derailer body. This is assuming an RD that is working correctly, unlike Suncake's SLJ:



As Suncake suspected, 3561 is supposed to have flats on either side, allowing the user to install 3563L by turning 3876 clockwise, thereby tensioning the spring.



If none of this makes sense, this video should make it crystal clear:


Suncake, please PM me, and I'll refund the cost of the parts plus the shipping back to me. Please keep the FD. I'd offer you a replacement 3561, but I'm not sure I can pull a spare SLJ out of nowhere . According to Robert's pages, it appears as if the part was common only to the LJ 1000, LJ 2000, and SLJ 5000/5001.

That said, is there a possibility that someone stuck a #3562 in place of a 3561 on Suncake's RD?

-Kurt

I don't know (without trying it) why the method I suggested wouldn't work: put the dropout side of the pivot (3563L, 3561, pivot body, together with the spring (3885), wind the spring up from the outside, hold the wound end of the spring in the slot at the edge of the pivot hole deftly with a blade, and insert the pivot bolt, engaging the keyhole in 3563L and trapping the end of the spring in the slot at the same time. Then 3561 is just a sleeve, and its keyhole isn't used.

Might work, but I sold it expecting it to work right. Mind you, that spring has to be tensioned close to 180 degrees - note how far I spun 3876 before installing 3563L.

EDIT: Might have found a donor. Going to the LBS now.

-Kurt

FWIW, I have a donor clawed 410 I bought specifically for parts. I haven't taken it apart yet, but it doesn't seem to have similar parts.

You're correct that in its assembled state (or what's shown at the end of Kurt's helpful video), 3561 only needs to function as a sleeve.

As far as the method you explained, I'm not 100% I completely understand it, particularly what you mean by "wind the spring from the outside." As Kurt pointed out, tensioning this to 180 degrees is quite a bit of torque (enough to, say, strip a slotted aluminum bit ). In theory, if one could rotate the spring 180 degrees and get the tabbed washer (3563L) in place, you'd be fine...but I think the term "deft hands" would be an understatement.

I should note that 3563L cannot be rotated to the proper position if inserted in the untensioned state b/c of interference from the raised parts of the derailer body.