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Eddy's Molteni

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Old 03-27-14 | 06:35 AM
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Eddy's Molteni

I think the bike is totally legit. Sebastien and Willy, these are the type if guys that hang out in cycling circles. Its their passion. I'd like to know what proof would be good enough to prove its Eddys bike?

Sebastiens word is good enough for me.
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Old 03-27-14 | 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rootboy
Yeah. This guy really knows what he's doing. Best pics on ebay. Bar none.
The text is straightforward and quite comprehensive too.

While this is a recreation, the standard of finish is very good, much care was taken to keep the paint from building up too thick.

Makes me want to paint one of mine that needs it this way.
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Old 03-27-14 | 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
That's Stefan, of course. Very nice indeed! THAT is how to present a bike for sale!

My minor nits: needs short brake calipers, shouldn't have tabbed pedals, needs an oro chain. That's pretty much all I see (and other than the calipers, those are minor issues).
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Old 03-27-14 | 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by iab
Correct. I don't know what I was thinking. Same goes for returns. I don't offer any returns yet a low-life buyer could force the issue if they are inclined.

As for international sales, I buy mostly from ebay.it. In hundreds of purchases, I have opened did not receive item 3 times. I wait until the 6-week limit ebay allows. Then you used to get another 4 weeks to resolve. In that case 1 item arrived within a couple of days, 1 item never arrived and escalated to get a refund.

The last item was recent, maybe 3 -4 months ago. I opened a claim at 6 weeks figuring ebay would give me another 4 weeks for the item to arrive. They didn't and nearly immediately refunded my money. I don't know why they were so quick to refund, must be a "new" policy. Needless to say, the item arrived 2 weeks later. I couldn't resend the funds through ebay, had to use paypal directly. What a stupid system.
It's a system that stays 'greased' and guarantees that profits continue to flow briskly into eBay's coffers. Any questions? :-)

Last edited by 753proguy; 03-27-14 at 07:03 AM. Reason: typo.
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Old 03-27-14 | 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by big chainring
I think the bike is totally legit. Sebastien and Willy, these are the type if guys that hang out in cycling circles. Its their passion. I'd like to know what proof would be good enough to prove its Eddys bike?

Sebastiens word is good enough for me.
Cool. You should buy it!
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Old 03-27-14 | 07:11 AM
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Eddy's Molteni

^i would if I could afford it. Maybe fly over and have a beer with Sebastian.

Remember, its not a lie if you believe its the truth.
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Old 03-27-14 | 07:12 AM
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I don't think Sebastien is trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. I believe him too. But for investment purposes, at that price, I think it would require a bit more documentation. For me, anyway. But of course, that's all just idle rumination on my part as I'm not a serious buyer for such a thing. Fine thing, though it is.
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Old 03-27-14 | 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by big chainring
Remember, its not a lie if you believe its the truth.
Huh?

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you on that, Big Ring. Too many examples to the contrary.
Even though this case may not be one of them.
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Old 03-27-14 | 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 753proguy
That's Stefan, of course. Very nice indeed! THAT is how to present a bike for sale!

My minor nits: needs short brake calipers, shouldn't have tabbed pedals, needs an oro chain. That's pretty much all I see (and other than the calipers, those are minor issues).
No, "normal" or original reach calipers are correct. Masi forks for the Gran Criterium started out with very short brake reach, less than what the original Campagnolo caliper was capable of being adjusted to. I am not sure why, it got sorted out later. The Universal 68 caliper was adjustable for a bit less reach than the Campagnolo. Maybe that was the reason. Some Masi Specials (late) share this sort reach on the fork. Masi cheated the brake mounting hole up closer to the crown race to gain some extra room initially by the examples I have, and filed the "moon" washer to clear the headset.

The lower head lug angle was adjusted later to allow a longer fork and more clearance. The tight reach would later return with the Prestige when short reach brakes were ubiquitous.

The earliest Short Reach Campagnolo calipers I saw were in late 1974. Way before they were stocked by the distributors.
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Old 03-27-14 | 07:53 AM
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Just for the record i'm not accusing the seller of lying.

I'm just stating that the story and Ebay responses comes across as not that legit the way they are worded.
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Old 03-27-14 | 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Daveyates
Just for the record i'm not accusing the seller of lying.

I'm just stating that the story and Ebay responses comes across as not that legit the way they are worded.
Yeah, I'm with you. If I was going to be dropping that kind of money for a display piece, I'd need some sort of authentication.
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Old 03-27-14 | 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Daveyates
Just for the record i'm not accusing the seller of lying.

I'm just stating that the story and Ebay responses comes across as not that legit the way they are worded.
"You got to Believe"

The challenge is that those who have the disposable income to afford the tariff are also likely to be very careful how they spend it.
Proclaiming that it is built by a certain maker is the easy part to confirm. Everything beyond is quite a challenge. Maybe not, Eddy is still around to ask.
The risk though is that Mr. Merckx reviews the bike and does not remember it, or is unwilling to make a public judgement on the record.

Then where are you?
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Old 03-27-14 | 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
No, "normal" or original reach calipers are correct. Masi forks for the Gran Criterium started out with very short brake reach, less than what the original Campagnolo caliper was capable of being adjusted to. I am not sure why, it got sorted out later. The Universal 68 caliper was adjustable for a bit less reach than the Campagnolo. Maybe that was the reason. Some Masi Specials (late) share this sort reach on the fork. Masi cheated the brake mounting hole up closer to the crown race to gain some extra room initially by the examples I have, and filed the "moon" washer to clear the headset.

The lower head lug angle was adjusted later to allow a longer fork and more clearance. The tight reach would later return with the Prestige when short reach brakes were ubiquitous.

The earliest Short Reach Campagnolo calipers I saw were in late 1974. Way before they were stocked by the distributors.
Yes, the short calipers appeared in '74.
OK, I looked at my NOS Confente-built '72 GC, and it does of course have regular-reach calipers, and they are up pretty high in the slots. Not quite as extremely high as on this tribute bike, though. If I bought this one (too small, plus my wife would kill me anyways...) I would still change the calipers, personally.
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Old 03-27-14 | 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by big chainring
^i would if I could afford it. Maybe fly over and have a beer with Sebastian.

Remember, its not a lie if you believe its the truth.
That's the Joseph Goebbels school of truth. Also the Karl Rove school, fwiw.

Last edited by 753proguy; 03-27-14 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Goebbels, not Goering, duh....
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Old 03-27-14 | 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 753proguy
Yes, the short calipers appeared in '74.
OK, I looked at my NOS Confente-built '72 GC, and it does of course have regular-reach calipers, and they are up pretty high in the slots. Not quite as extremely high as on this tribute bike, though. If I bought this one (too small, plus my wife would kill me anyways...) I would still change the calipers, personally.
Actually, I would consider one of the "V" built Italian bikes exceptions to my notes. Brian Baylis has stated Mario mentioned that the jig frames that were on hand were "wrong" at Carlsbad, well at least some of them and he did not use them. Mario built complete frame and fork sets for Masi while in Italy. This may not have been the case for other sub contractors.
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Old 03-27-14 | 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 753proguy
My minor nits: needs short brake calipers, shouldn't have tabbed pedals, needs an oro chain.
When did tab appear and disappear on relevant pedals?
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Old 03-27-14 | 10:31 AM
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Im thinking a signed document from Eddy would do the trick. He is still around, now whether he would be up for doing that kind of thing? I do think Eddy would know if it was his. He was a real bike nut and probably worked on that bike himself at one time or another. At any rate, I dont think anything less than a signed Merckx document would do the trick. I for one, have an email from Andy Hampsten saying my 7-11 bike was "probably" one of his.
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Old 03-27-14 | 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DMNHCAGrandPrix
When did tab appear and disappear on relevant pedals?
Well, it appeared at launch in 1956, but it stopped being produced in about 1971, afaik, when the SL pedals appeared. There were probably lots of tabbed pedals around in inventories, though, and it's not like they recalled them, so they could still have been sold for quite some time after that point.

Is everyone aware that there are two versions of the black SL pedals? The flip tab and quill 'points' were made less pointy, probably during all of the CPSC nonsense in 1977-1978. There were also short-lived silver-cage SL pedals, afaik, but I've never seen any.

Last edited by 753proguy; 03-27-14 at 10:37 AM. Reason: typo.
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Old 03-27-14 | 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 753proguy
Originally Posted by big chainring
^i would if I could afford it. Maybe fly over and have a beer with Sebastian.

Remember, its not a lie if you believe its the truth.
That's the Hermann Goering school of truth. Also the Karl Rove school, fwiw.
I got it from George Costanza.
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Old 03-27-14 | 10:45 AM
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Was he a Nazi, like the other two? :>
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Old 03-27-14 | 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
Eddy is still around to ask. The risk though is that Mr. Merckx reviews the bike and does not remember it, or is unwilling to make a public judgement on the record.
But how many bikes does a top racer ride in a season? In a decade? There must be dozens or hundreds that he rode in the period this bike would represent, (and this bike has had some restoration/rebuilding since then). Again, watch "La Course en Tete". There are swarms of virtually identical orange "Eddy Merckx" bikes in his garage, on support vehicles, ridden by other team members. Chances of him 40 years later looking at this bike and saying "yep" would be pretty slim.
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Old 03-27-14 | 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rootboy
Was he a Nazi, like the other two? :>
No, an architect!
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Old 03-27-14 | 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 753proguy
Well, it appeared at launch in 1956, but it stopped being produced in about 1971, afaik, when the SL pedals appeared. There were probably lots of tabbed pedals around in inventories, though, and it's not like they recalled them, so they could still have been sold for quite some time after that point.

Is everyone aware that there are two versions of the black SL pedals? The flip tab and quill 'points' were made less pointy, probably during all of the CPSC nonsense in 1977-1978. There were also short-lived silver-cage SL pedals, afaik, but I've never seen any.
There are at least three versions, all with no strap loop.
Silver, non anno cage, cage windows like the steel pedal.
Black with the same cage shape as the steel pedal (small typography) still using metallic dust caps by the way.
Black with the "windows" smaller and the chamfer leading to the outer surface at the "windows". (the typical configuration seen) typography evolves

I have not studied the quill return closely, I should do that.

I have examples of all of the above.
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Old 03-27-14 | 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine
But how many bikes does a top racer ride in a season? In a decade? There must be dozens or hundreds that he rode in the period this bike would represent, (and this bike has had some restoration/rebuilding since then). Again, watch "La Course en Tete". There are swarms of virtually identical orange "Eddy Merckx" bikes in his garage, on support vehicles, ridden by other team members. Chances of him 40 years later looking at this bike and saying "yep" would be pretty slim.
That IS the problem and the risk. And yes, Eddy did go through a good number of bikes, probably more than the typical pro.
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Old 03-27-14 | 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
There are at least three versions, all with no strap loop.
Silver, non anno cage, cage windows like the steel pedal.
Black with the same cage shape as the steel pedal (small typography) still using metallic dust caps by the way.
Black with the "windows" smaller and the chamfer leading to the outer surface at the "windows". (the typical configuration seen) typography evolves

I have not studied the quill return closely, I should do that.

I have examples of all of the above.
Son, I said son.... (read it in Foghorn Leghorn's accent...).
I said there are two versions of the black-caged.... Plus silver, equals three....
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