What component change makes the most dramatic difference?
#76
Have bike, will travel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,286
Likes: 317
From: Lake Geneva, WI
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
..And yet most real racing bikes were sold with 52 (or higher) and 49 half step crankset gearing prior to 1980. Most owners customized their gearing within weeks of the initial purchase. I used the 52 & 49 in central New Hampshire, but I was 17 years old, very fit and 160 lbs.
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 11-19-14 at 09:03 AM.
#77
Thread Starter
aka Tom Reingold




Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,123
Likes: 6,340
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Ha! Ya know, I tried mustache handlebars twice. I really wanted to like them, because wouldn't it be perfect to have both mustache handlebars and a handlebar mustache? But I just didn't like them. Oh well.
What is the story between the two spellings of the word: mustache and moustache? Is one British and the other American?
What is the story between the two spellings of the word: mustache and moustache? Is one British and the other American?
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#78
Ha! Ya know, I tried mustache handlebars twice. I really wanted to like them, because wouldn't it be perfect to have both mustache handlebars and a handlebar mustache? But I just didn't like them. Oh well.
What is the story between the two spellings of the word: mustache and moustache? Is one British and the other American?
What is the story between the two spellings of the word: mustache and moustache? Is one British and the other American?
#79
South Carolina Ed

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,908
Likes: 320
From: Greer, SC
Bikes: Holdsworth custom, Macario Pro, Ciocc San Cristobal, Viner Nemo, Cyfac Le Mythique, Giant TCR, Tommasso Mondial, Cyfac Etoile
#80
What??? Only 2 wheels?


Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,496
Likes: 936
From: Boston-ish, MA
Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
#81
Thread Starter
aka Tom Reingold




Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,123
Likes: 6,340
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Actually, you use Canadian English, which is its own variety. It includes almost completely British spelling, with a few exceptions. I can't remember any at the moment. I believe most Canadians, excluding you, spell "tire" rather than "tyre."
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#82
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,358
Likes: 665
From: northern michigan
Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712
Tires, indeed. I had 23's on my '85 Trek 460 and threw some Bontrager 25's on for 2 seasons. Then went back to Michelin Krylion 23's. Wow, the front end got light on me, acceleration was quick once again.
Last August I acquired the Trek 760 that had very heavy Conti 25's that I swapped for Avocet 23's (22 actual) and that difference was similarly dramatic as the the 460. Both bikes are dedicated race platforms and easy to tell tire differences.
Last August I acquired the Trek 760 that had very heavy Conti 25's that I swapped for Avocet 23's (22 actual) and that difference was similarly dramatic as the the 460. Both bikes are dedicated race platforms and easy to tell tire differences.
#83
Tyre came about as a reference to pneumatic wheels and entered common usage in the 1920's and has become the common British spelling, I find it to be specific whereas "tire" can have a number of meanings.
Most Canadians spell it as "tire" but I am not most Canadians, as an example I often refer to children as wee bairns and keep my spare tyre in the boot of the car which is probably due to being raised by a Scottish grandmother who spoke Gaelic but was also born a British subject.
Our common language has a lot of variances across this continent and many native Canadians are still only a few generations away from the old country and grew up in homes where many other languages were spoken.
Tourists often take me for being from somewhere else since I have a non-typical accent.
#84
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Versailles, KY
Bikes: Too many to list in this particular space...
All I had to do was read the first page. noglider and oddjob2 are tied in my book.
noglider- you get a whole change of attitude with handlebars. The Suburban makes me want to go slow and gawk, I feel more relaxed, leisurely. I can just hop on it and go. It's nicer on my hands, too. When I get on the BD/Moto road bike bag o' tricks. I feel a bit aggressive and lycra/helmet mannered. Given the weather right now, I'm not sure which I'll ride more, since they are both recent acquisitions. but my hunch is the Subbie (or the more recent 3-speed Speedster?). I could go off on different bike/different mood,/different feel/different ride, but that's another topic...
oddjob2- Maintenance makes a world of difference. A bike with low tires and old grease is a chore to ride, no matter what it cost, or what hangs on the frame. The cheap one in shape will always be more pleasant than the tired classic....
noglider- you get a whole change of attitude with handlebars. The Suburban makes me want to go slow and gawk, I feel more relaxed, leisurely. I can just hop on it and go. It's nicer on my hands, too. When I get on the BD/Moto road bike bag o' tricks. I feel a bit aggressive and lycra/helmet mannered. Given the weather right now, I'm not sure which I'll ride more, since they are both recent acquisitions. but my hunch is the Subbie (or the more recent 3-speed Speedster?). I could go off on different bike/different mood,/different feel/different ride, but that's another topic...
oddjob2- Maintenance makes a world of difference. A bike with low tires and old grease is a chore to ride, no matter what it cost, or what hangs on the frame. The cheap one in shape will always be more pleasant than the tired classic....
#85
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Versailles, KY
Bikes: Too many to list in this particular space...
Tire is based on the French tirer which means pull, which is what blacksmiths did to draw iron rods into the iron hoops for carriage wheels.
Tyre came about as a reference to pneumatic wheels and entered common usage in the 1920's and has become the common British spelling, I find it to be specific whereas "tire" can have a number of meanings.
Most Canadians spell it as "tire" but I am not most Canadians, as an example I often refer to children as wee bairns and keep my spare tyre in the boot of the car which is probably due to being raised by a Scottish grandmother who spoke Gaelic but was also born a British subject.
Our common language has a lot of variances across this continent and many native Canadians are still only a few generations away from the old country and grew up in homes where many other languages were spoken.
Tourists often take me for being from somewhere else since I have a non-typical accent.
Tyre came about as a reference to pneumatic wheels and entered common usage in the 1920's and has become the common British spelling, I find it to be specific whereas "tire" can have a number of meanings.
Most Canadians spell it as "tire" but I am not most Canadians, as an example I often refer to children as wee bairns and keep my spare tyre in the boot of the car which is probably due to being raised by a Scottish grandmother who spoke Gaelic but was also born a British subject.
Our common language has a lot of variances across this continent and many native Canadians are still only a few generations away from the old country and grew up in homes where many other languages were spoken.
Tourists often take me for being from somewhere else since I have a non-typical accent.
#86
South Carolina Ed

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,908
Likes: 320
From: Greer, SC
Bikes: Holdsworth custom, Macario Pro, Ciocc San Cristobal, Viner Nemo, Cyfac Le Mythique, Giant TCR, Tommasso Mondial, Cyfac Etoile
#87
would have agreed with most until I rebuilt a bike earlier this year for my littlest. Changed the wheels, drive train and bars/stem, kept only the frame and seat/post. After our first ride she noted that she was not happy with the ride, despite changing most to better parts. Spent the rest of the weekend trying to dial in the fit as she had grow 2 inches over the fall and winter. Next ride, still no good, which had me puzzled. I was also building a new mtb for myself and swapped the locking grips or a set of generic Pedros soft grips. This did the trick, it didn't occur to me at first, and she enjoys riding the bike much more than before. As I look at my parts bin, the parts I have most in surplus are grips, tape and wrap (price obviously a factor). After that experience I've taken significant thought into matching grips to the build. Grips/tape may not be my top pick but definitely a top 5 for me.
#88
Phyllo-buster


Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,260
Likes: 2,683
From: Nova Scotia
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Tyre is unusual in that I'll use whichever spelling suits the intended reader or the genus of the bike. Other words, centre/metre/colour/cheque etc are mandatory.
I vote for both clipless AND modern clinchers. edit...does that make it a "tye"
I vote for both clipless AND modern clinchers. edit...does that make it a "tye"
Tire is based on the French tirer which means pull, which is what blacksmiths did to draw iron rods into the iron hoops for carriage wheels.
Tyre came about as a reference to pneumatic wheels and entered common usage in the 1920's and has become the common British spelling, I find it to be specific whereas "tire" can have a number of meanings.
Most Canadians spell it as "tire" but I am not most Canadians, as an example I often refer to children as wee bairns and keep my spare tyre in the boot of the car which is probably due to being raised by a Scottish grandmother who spoke Gaelic but was also born a British subject.
Our common language has a lot of variances across this continent and many native Canadians are still only a few generations away from the old country and grew up in homes where many other languages were spoken.
Tourists often take me for being from somewhere else since I have a non-typical accent.
Tyre came about as a reference to pneumatic wheels and entered common usage in the 1920's and has become the common British spelling, I find it to be specific whereas "tire" can have a number of meanings.
Most Canadians spell it as "tire" but I am not most Canadians, as an example I often refer to children as wee bairns and keep my spare tyre in the boot of the car which is probably due to being raised by a Scottish grandmother who spoke Gaelic but was also born a British subject.
Our common language has a lot of variances across this continent and many native Canadians are still only a few generations away from the old country and grew up in homes where many other languages were spoken.
Tourists often take me for being from somewhere else since I have a non-typical accent.
#89
Thread Starter
aka Tom Reingold




Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,123
Likes: 6,340
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
True, tape or grips make a surprising difference. For the same reason, so can gloves, even though they are not a bike component.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#90
Cyclotouriste


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,784
Likes: 6,994
From: South Holland, NL
Bikes: Yes, please.
Not the most dramatic, but certainly the most surprising for me was the steel cottered crank set. The first time I did not immediately replace it with something lighter, but kept it just because this particular Stronglight example looked so nice, I was pleasantly surprised by the smoothness it added to the feel of the bike. Tried it on another bike and had the same experience. I guess the downside is the bigger mass of the thing, but in this pancake-flat country that is not much of an issue.
#91
Not the most dramatic, but certainly the most surprising for me was the steel cottered crank set. The first time I did not immediately replace it with something lighter, but kept it just because this particular Stronglight example looked so nice, I was pleasantly surprised by the smoothness it added to the feel of the bike. Tried it on another bike and had the same experience. I guess the downside is the bigger mass of the thing, but in this pancake-flat country that is not much of an issue.
#92
Aspiring curmudgeon


Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,486
Likes: 26
From: Saint Louis
Bikes: Guerciotti, Serotta, Gaulzetti
I don't have any bikes with cottered cranks, but I do have a Schwinn Le Tour II with steel wheels. This bike has a surprisingly good, smooth feel on the ride. It's steel (1020 I believe) and lugged and is a mixte. The heavy wheels are the only thing I can think of because none of my other similar sized lugged mixes have steel wheels. So I guess sometimes the "lesser" desired components don't necessarily have negative effects.
__________________
"Party on comrades" -- Lenin, probably
"Party on comrades" -- Lenin, probably
#93
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,808
Likes: 1,781
From: Northern California
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
I don't have any bikes with cottered cranks, but I do have a Schwinn Le Tour II with steel wheels. This bike has a surprisingly good, smooth feel on the ride. It's steel (1020 I believe) and lugged and is a mixte. The heavy wheels are the only thing I can think of because none of my other similar sized lugged mixes have steel wheels. So I guess sometimes the "lesser" desired components don't necessarily have negative effects.
I found and used a super-nice pair of Araya steel rims on Suzue hi-flange hubs. These rims (bare) are like 760 grams each, versus the wide alloy rims ~500g, so at least a pound was added.
The bike doesn't take fast, bumpy roads quite as well now, but the steering gained a solidity that is almost Schwinn-like now, which gives better tracking along roads with narrow shoulders continuously abutted by drainage trenches.
The geometry of a frame really affects how well that any particular handlebar and stem length works out. The ~70-degree head-tube angles on the electro-forged Varsity/Suburban/Continental frames gets along particularly well with upright "touring" handlebars and very short stem extensions, which Schwinn seemed to understand better than just about every other bike company(!).
I've never put a rider on an old Suburban/Varsity with upright handlebars without hearing very-positive feedback afterward. It's one of the ultimate cycling experiences.
On the other hand, I somewhat cringe whenever I see a quick-steering racing frame fitted with the sort of short stem and/or taller and swept-back handlebar that promises too-quick steering.
The angle-finder is my best friend when it comes time to selecting/fitting a bike to a rider and selecting an appropriate bar/stem combination!
Just as when I first found digital calipers to be super-affordable, finding a reliable angle-finder for $20 or $30 was something for this cycling enthusiast to get excited about!!
#95
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,808
Likes: 1,781
From: Northern California
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
I've found and measured frames with angles ranging from 69 degrees up to 78 degrees. These angles have a huge impact on frame fit and handling behavior, and hugely impact which fit parameters (saddle fore/aft, handlebar style/reach and stem extension length in particular) will be needed to get the best setup for a particular rider.
Without having reliable frame angle and dimensional data to rely on, getting a rider fitted to a bike can be more "black art" than science.
#96
Cyclotouriste


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,784
Likes: 6,994
From: South Holland, NL
Bikes: Yes, please.
#98
Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,830
Likes: 365
From: Maryland
Bikes: Lots of English 3-speeds, a couple of old road bikes, 3 mountain bikes, 1 hybrid, and a couple of mash-ups
I am going with shifters. Not so much the style, but the placement - moving the shifter(s) can make a huge difference in the experience of the ride. Noglider said that bars were the #1 , but if you change bars, you must change or re-position the shifters. In my over 65 world, not having to find a down-tube lever is really important.
#99
For me, bicycles have to be the complete package of function and form and in many cases it is just swapping out the component that does not provide the function you want or the form which could be as simple as matching the bar tape and saddle or changing a component that does not match up.
A modern derailleur or crank might offer all the performance one wants but look very out of place on a vintage bicycle and there are period correct components that don;t give up much, if anything and just look right.
A modern derailleur or crank might offer all the performance one wants but look very out of place on a vintage bicycle and there are period correct components that don;t give up much, if anything and just look right.
#100
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 3
From: Cascadia
Bikes: Jamis Quest Comp
I would add that when rehabbing a vintage bike, I notice performance improvement from hubs that have been cleaned, serviced with new bearings, and properly adjusted. It pays to have great hubs to begin with, but after they have been serviced, the efficiency of the bike improves a lot. During a Detroit Slow Roll, I find I don't need to pedal as much or fast to stay with the pace among hundreds of vintage bikes that clearly look neglected maintenance wise.
Tire pressure influences pedaling efficiency as well.
Tire pressure influences pedaling efficiency as well.



