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Looking for recommendations for Classic looking 1" Threadless Stems (tall stack)

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Looking for recommendations for Classic looking 1" Threadless Stems (tall stack)

Old 02-01-15, 11:41 AM
  #1  
bumbles
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Looking for recommendations for Classic looking 1" Threadless Stems (tall stack)

I know this is getting into modern territory, but I'm been looking for something that probably doesn't exist and I thought you guys would be most tuned into this sort of thing.

I have a 1" threadless fork, and a thin tubed steel bike. I found Velo Orange's nice looking stem, but the downside for me is that it's designed for 1 1/8" and I would need to shim it. Not a problem functionally, but the visual bulkiness of it would conflict with my small tubed frame. If this exact stem was available in a thinner 1" style, I would be sold. I can't seem to find a smaller 1" equivalent anywhere.

I would prefer to take advantage of a removable face plate as long as the fasteners are visually minimal. I also like how the steerer fastener is on the front of the stem.

I'm sure some of you are thinking "custom." That might be the answer but I'm already over budget on this build.

Any ideas?



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Old 02-01-15, 01:09 PM
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3ttt mutant
Kore
Ritchey WCS
Salsa
ITM eclypse
Cinelli alter
Cinelli grammo - one just sold on ebay.de for €112
Kelly
Thomson


Good luck!

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Old 02-01-15, 03:55 PM
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I would source a nice 1" salsa (or cinelli grammo if you can afford it) for now, and down the road if you decide you really want the "7" shape get a custom one made, once you get the position dialed in perfectly... I know it's an aesthetic compromise but it seems weird to get a threadless stem with little to no adjustability, at least for the initial build (2)
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Old 02-02-15, 01:01 PM
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I appreciate the comments. As far as tuning, I have already had this frame built up once before, and I've already got my measurements. And I suppose one could use spacers under a tall stack stem.

Does anyone know of any other "tall stack" stems that I'm missing?

And for the record, Velo Orange said their OD on the "extension" part of the stem is 33.8mm for anyone that might be curious.
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Old 02-02-15, 01:34 PM
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I think you are, unfortunately, S.O.L. Your choices are:

1. Custom/$$$ to get what you really want
2. Use the VO and find a way to live with the bulkiness
3. Don't use a tall stack stem

Note that the bar clamp diameter is 31.8, not 26.0, so a shim is needed w/26.0 bars. Which kinda stinks with a cut-out removable face cap like this. It offends me aesthetically. It besmirches my lovely machines. I have nothing but 26.0 bars in my fleet, so as much as I really like the un-shimmed look, it's a no-go.

Also note that Compass/Jan Heine has a nicer fillet-brazed Nitto tall stack stem, also 31.8/31.8, for $215. That can't be too far away from custom-built pricing, but they are purty. They do not have removable face caps, though.

I also found an ugly/cheapish Civia (maybe?) tall-stack stem while search engining, like for city/hybrid bikes. 31.8 steer tube, didn't check bar diameter 'cause they were not pretty, to my eyes.
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Old 02-02-15, 05:01 PM
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Fairweather has these available from Nitto in 26.0 and 31.8

Fillet welded in chrome and black.

Unfortunately they are only 1 1/8.

FAIRWEATHER STEM by NITTO



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Old 02-02-15, 05:08 PM
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I've been looking for a thread less ITM Eclypse, has anyone seen these for sale?
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Old 02-02-15, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jet sanchEz View Post
I've been looking for a thread less ITM Eclypse, has anyone seen these for sale?
Like this guy?

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Old 02-02-15, 05:11 PM
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Yup, exactly like that. They pop up on eBay now and then but never in the size I need, 110 mm
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Old 02-02-15, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jet sanchEz View Post
Yup, exactly like that. They pop up on eBay now and then but never in the size I need, 110 mm
Our swap is coming up.

I've seen them for $10 so I'll keep my eyes open.
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Old 02-02-15, 05:46 PM
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You want a classic looking stem? Easy. And this approach gives you lots of choices.

1) Buy a 1" threaded headset to match your fork and headtube.
2) Take your fork to any framebuilder and have him cut and thread it. (Bring your frame and headset so he knows what length to cut to.)
2) Assemble and install any 1" quill stem. Want to go super high quality new for not too outrageous $$s? Get a Nitto Pearl. (But order it 1 cm shorter than you would say TTT or Cinelli. Nitto measures its stems perpendicular to the steerer CL, not to the stem CL/steerer CL intersection so its measurements are 1.05X bigger. A Nitto 12 is almost exactly a TTT 13.)

I had my custom ti built 1" threadless with a steel fork. My first threadless bike. If I can help it, I won't do it again. In fact, when the opportunity seems right, I will take the fork back to the builder and have him thread it. I have already talked to him about it. It's easy.

Sadly, this approach will not get you past the faceplate issue. I do not know yet of the stock quill stem that does faceplates. (Bicycle industry - hear that? There are those of us who still prefer quill stems because adjusting height is SO easy. Now if you make changing stem length nearly as as simple ...)

Edit: another plus of good old threaded, Campy steel, Stronglight or my favorite, the lowly Tange, at least my experience - dialing in the adjustment and having it stay there is really easy. The first 7000 miles of both my threadless and threaded Grip Nut (both Chris King) I had to adjust the headsets nearly every 200 miles. With a Tange threaded, it might be twice. Granted the problem with the threadless wasn't the headset, it was needing to adjust it every time I change the stem height.

Ben

Last edited by 79pmooney; 02-02-15 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 02-02-15, 11:30 PM
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Thanks gomango
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Old 02-03-15, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
You want a classic looking stem? Easy. And this approach gives you lots of choices.

1) Buy a 1" threaded headset to match your fork and headtube.
2) Take your fork to any framebuilder and have him cut and thread it. (Bring your frame and headset so he knows what length to cut to.)
2) Assemble and install any 1" quill stem. Want to go super high quality new for not too outrageous $$s? Get a Nitto Pearl. (But order it 1 cm shorter than you would say TTT or Cinelli. Nitto measures its stems perpendicular to the steerer CL, not to the stem CL/steerer CL intersection so its measurements are 1.05X bigger. A Nitto 12 is almost exactly a TTT 13.)

I had my custom ti built 1" threadless with a steel fork. My first threadless bike. If I can help it, I won't do it again. In fact, when the opportunity seems right, I will take the fork back to the builder and have him thread it. I have already talked to him about it. It's easy.

Sadly, this approach will not get you past the faceplate issue. I do not know yet of the stock quill stem that does faceplates. (Bicycle industry - hear that? There are those of us who still prefer quill stems because adjusting height is SO easy. Now if you make changing stem length nearly as as simple ...)

Edit: another plus of good old threaded, Campy steel, Stronglight or my favorite, the lowly Tange, at least my experience - dialing in the adjustment and having it stay there is really easy. The first 7000 miles of both my threadless and threaded Grip Nut (both Chris King) I had to adjust the headsets nearly every 200 miles. With a Tange threaded, it might be twice. Granted the problem with the threadless wasn't the headset, it was needing to adjust it every time I change the stem height.

Ben
Just to clarify, I think (EDIT: I thought) your math logic here is a little off, and noting you are right about there being a difference in actual vs. measured extension lengths between most classic racing quill stems and production OEM stems as typically found on Japanese bikes. Note that there are exceptions as well, particularly with many of the racing-quality Japanese stems which can be measured and compared directly and accurately with Italian racing stems.

The (usually lighter) racing stems most often measure out as spec'd when measuring across the top, from the top center of the quill bolt head to the top point of tangency with the stem clamp.
This is so because it is an easy "field measurement" as would intuitively be most convenient for coaches, racers and the like who often as not might change stems with some regularity.

The typical OEM Japanese stem (not the sleekest ones in most cases) are measured as true center-to-center-along-center of the horizontal extension, from handlebar center to quill center.
This method is true to best drafting practices that are used in manufacturing, though not as easily measured, especially as-installed.
But buyers of low-cost classic-era bicycles were perhaps reasonably not expected to ever measure their stem's extension length (hah!).

So a Cinelli, TTT, Shimano AX or even Nitto Pearl stem (EDIT; not including the Pearl stem) are about 4mm shorter than a same-marked-size Japanese OEM stem, but with exceptions appearing from both sides of the EurAsian continent!

Unfortunately, there is no mention in the literature (including catalogs) of this measurement discrepancy(!), so thanks 79pmooney for bringing this to the collective attention of many (MOST) who are not aware of this!

Neither measurement method ("field measurement" nor "drafting board measurement") measures any perpendicular distance though (it's always made parallel to the extension) unless the stem happens to be a 90-degree stem, in which case the actual extension of the 90-degree stem is effectively about 5mm longer (5mm more perpendicular offset) than one that has a normal (horizontal) -17 degree "drop".
This increased offset of 90-degree stems is yet another un-published dimension variable that can make a best fit less likely to be achieved on the first try, which can make for expensive purchase mistakes!

So, just as with bottom bracket spindles (with their differing offsets and tapers), one should take the time to develop and acquaint themselves, comfortably, with comparative measurement methods that they can use at home (using caliper, ruler and a good eye), before choosing and especially fitting parts to their bike.
The disappointment of replacing a quill stem, and then finding out that one spent their serious time and money only to make too much or too little of the needed change makes taking the time to ascertain the exact dimensions well worth the effort.

Certainly as bike parts and sizing dimensions/methods become more standardized, and thus idiot-proofed, shops may be less likely to consistently come up with best-dimensioned parts for classic bikes as their owner's may be able to determine on their own, at home.
Measuring and ordering parts are two different things however, so figuring out what to order can be challenging, as so many parts-fitting threads can attest.

Last edited by dddd; 02-03-15 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 02-03-15, 12:29 PM
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Keep looking on eBay would be my recommendation. Save a search for 1" threadless stem and check at least once a week. Salsa, Kelly, ITM, Nitto and others made stems that meet your criteria but they are probably all out of production. I sold a beautiful black 1" Kelly 10 cm stem about a year ago on eBay. If you find a Salsa with a removeable face cap, make sure it's not one of the models that was recalled because it might not be safe to use. It's too bad because those were very nice stems and easy to install.
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Old 02-03-15, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
...Get a Nitto Pearl. (But order it 1 cm shorter than you would say TTT or Cinelli. Nitto measures its stems perpendicular to the steerer CL, not to the stem CL/steerer CL intersection so its measurements are 1.05X bigger. A Nitto 12 is almost exactly a TTT 13.)...

Just noting here that I corrected my earlier post. Ben is right, the Nitto Pearl stem uniquely measures longer than the inscribed numerical extension length, by five or ten millimeters depending on whether extension is measured "drafting board" style (measured from center-to-center along center) or by "field measurement" style (laying a tape across the top of the stem).

I hope this clarifies our observations about the unknown, unique measurement method that Nitto applies to their Pearl stems.

It does seem as Ben has stated, that they would appear to be measuring perpendicular out from the quill center, which isn't done by anyone else except when measuring 90-degree stems (the Pearl is -17 degrees btw).

Measuring perpendicular would definitely be a superior method in my view, but only if everyone else did it this way. But no other stem is measured this way unless it is a 90-degree stem.

Does seem plain stupid for Nitto to apply a unique measurement method without making very obvious note of it in their (and in their distributor's) literature.
I can now say that this is well-verified at this point, and that this seems to apply to no other stem model in the entire realm of the quill stem market.

Last edited by dddd; 02-03-15 at 03:21 PM.
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