Opportunity and motive are the key words. This is what our campus police are preaching. Yes, you can't defeat a skilled thief with JUST a lock. The toughest Kryptonite is breakable if the dude and his grinder have three minutes of complete solitude with your very desirable bike. One decent lock is going to do the trick on an average bike parked beside a busy sidewalk or in front of a restaurant window or at the collection house of a city parking ramp with security on hand (one of my favorite spots on campus). People are too lock-centric and not attentive or creative enough about the other factors.

I live near Chicago and I go down there and see gorgeous bikes locked well (or not so well) but left underneath the L all day in racks where no one walks by except at rush hour. I'm guessing those bikes are each in about the same spot day after day for thieves to salivate after. And then someone's heavy duty Kryptonite lock gets run through and they rage at the lock or Chicago. If you commute in a place like Chicago you just have to be more creative than that. A lesser bike or a better route or parking spot - something. Lock is just one part of the equation.

After watching my brother learn how to pick locks, basically from youtube and the like, I don't trust any lock. It's scary what he can get into within 3-5 minutes.

I'm glad he's a stand up guy.

That is irrelevant. If a thief has the opportunity and motive, the make and model of the lock does not matter one bit. Higher rated locks simply means an extra minute or two of work.

I said in an earlier debate with you that I did not want to post others' private emails, but here's one edited sample to help this all sink into your head. He posted a stolen bike ad on craigslist and I replied asking him how the bike was stolen. He said his kryptonite fahgettaboudit u-lock was cut by bolt-cutters [sic].

me:
u-lock or cable?

guy: kryptonite NY u lock, they just cut right through it.

me:
did they leave the cut lock on the ground?
I always like to know what those ****ers are doing to steal bikes -- I'd like to keep a step ahead of them because I dont want to lose my bike.

guy: yeah, they left the remains of the lock cut on the ground. the metal
was sheared from two different sides with a point in the middle, kind
of like an arrow >
with the middle part looking more like it was broken off rather than
cut. it was like part of the sides of the U was cut, leaving more of
a J (and the top bar).
i usually don't leave mine outside overnight, but i'd injured myself
at the park and walked home instead of riding
i actually got an email from someone who saw a guy selling my bike at
a flea market yesterday morning the market was closed early because
of the weather by the time i got there, but it's every week so i'm
going to head back next week just in case it's there. i filed a
police report too.
thanks for your email.

Obviously, bolt-cutters did not do this - sounds like an angle grinder.

So, the score:

high-rated u-lock? yes and compromised.
flea market? most likely.

What else do you want? I have about 30-40 of emails just like this from the last 2-3 years. I'd say 90% or more of those that return my emails are just using a cable lock or have their house/garage/apartment robbed, so u-lock compromise is rare -- but certainly it does happen.

You havent seen any evidence because you havent sought any out.

exactly.

I never said it didn't happen at all; what I did say is that it doesn't happen with any regularity at all, and certianly not enough be worried about. If it happened the people who had their bikes stolen would be screaming about it, yet no one is.

The last time I came across someone like you sowing lock paranoia I posted a poll asking about people's locks and if they had a bike stolen while using one. Lot's of people posted stolen bike stories, but no one posted any details about high-end locks being defeated. With over 100,000 users worldwide here on BF if this was a problem facing the biking community you'd think we'd hear about it.

The guy left his bike on the street OVERNIGHT. That's hardly a good lock-up, and a far cry from all the shouting about 'no one will do a thing if some comes with power tools to steal your bike on a crowded street!' hysteria.

You're right, high-end U-lock compromise is rare, so rare in fact that it's not worth worrying about if you use some common sense and lock up properly. I never said that it didn't happen.....

I happen to have bolt cutters. I also have a cable lock lying around the house that I don't use. After reading your post, I used the bolt cutters on the cable, and was dismayed to discover that the bolt cutters cut the cable, without undue effort, in far less than 30 seconds. If I were a bike thief (may God damn them all), I'd look for bikes locked with cables.

I am through with responding to you because you are apparently some kind of internet know-it-all who is completely ignorant of hard facts. (Ya know, that stuff that happens in 'real life').


Have a nice day.

Where are the hard facts of high-end locks frequently being defeated on the streets? Please, show me something aside from a 'I know it happens'.

Your posts sow the kind of paranoia that keeps newbies from locking their bikes in public out of an irrational fear. Someone not educated in bikes and locking in public would be mortified if they read threads like this. The fact of the matter is that modern high-end locks are damn secure, and when used properly the chances of them being defeated on the streets is extremely small.

Exactly.

how about this: https://chicago.stolenbike.org/node/183679

And you conveniently never responded to this: https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...&postcount=122 -- watch the video if you havent already, particularly at 2:45 where he uses an angle grinder and no one cares. The difference between a high-rated u-lock and that chain is a mere 1-2 minutes.

high-rated u-locks are being compromised regularly in some areas -- not as much as cable locks obviously -- but it still happens in major cities with crime problems these days. Like I have said before, if you do not believe me, take your own survey of stolen craigslist ads over a period of time. you should come up with the numbers that I have come up with: 5% or so have their u-locks cut or compromised -- and those are only the ones that think to post on craigslist seeking information, so the percentage might be higher.

Wow, a bystander intervened! I thought that didn't happen......
I already covered it earlier in the thread.......

BTW, where are the forum reports?

In the process of dealing with the loss of my bikes earlier this week I've found out that there have been a rash of thefts in the area, including reports of thieves using powered cutting tools--I live near UCLA and scuttlebutt is that thieves have actually cut a few of the racks on campus--I guess maybe the metal tubing used to make the racks is at this point more susceptible than the locks. I guessing these must be the "big O" type racks, as it seems less feasible for other types--but maybe I'm not picturing whatever they would do correctly. Either way, if the racks themselves can be attacked that isn't very good news. I don't see much civic interest on spending money on switching to hi tech alloys for already scarce bike racks.

This is one reason compulsory bike licensing makes sense that I hadn't thought of before. I've always opposed compulsory licensing--but now I'm thinking maybe you should have to get a *free* license (or $3 for processing or whatever) if you want to secure your bike outside. Just so that bike thieves can't rely upon the "it's my bike, I lost the key" ploy.

I had a kind of strange thought earlier today. I was thinking about alarmed cables, which I know are generally useless on their own. But what if, instead of using it to secure your bike, you used it to secure your lock?

What I'm imagining is a small kevlar weave pouch (or some other fabric made to be difficult to cut), or a ballistic case style plastic and foam clamshell, that encloses a padlock like Crawdad described (being used with a hexagonal, sleeved chain or good quality cable.) The pouch/shell is closed with an alarmed cable lock, which protects access to the "real" lock--thus forcing the alarmed cable to be cut before the thief can get to work on it (instead of leaving it for last as one expect would normally be done).

I know the idea of locking up the lock is approaching self-parody, but I'm curious if that would be annoying enough to entice the thief to prefer another bike.

The link is a report of power tools being used brazenly openly in front of people, near security, in a heavy-traffic area. Whether or not someone intervened is largely irrelevant. Chances are people will not stop -- I honestly believe that from my experience in living and growing up in NY and Chicago. The bicycle owner was very lucky.

Wild fantasies? something that can happen and does happen is hardly a wild fantasy.

Of course, a properly locked bicycle will have better chances at being passed over -- duh. But that does not mean that a thief will always pass the bike over given an opportunity -- perhaps something, some knowledge and not just of monetary value makes the decision of which bicycle to steal (cycling trends, whether or not the bicycle is stock and inconspicuous vs custom and easily recognizable, new vs. old, etc).

And sometimes a bicycle is the only locked up bike for a few blocks even in dense urban areas -- if they need cash now and realize they can easily compromise the lock and make a quick $200 bucks, there is little that is going to stop them. More often than not, people will not stop them; The police have people shooting each other with handguns and assault rifles to report to and couldnt care less about a dumb stolen bicycle; and they can accomplish the attack in mere minutes and make quite an easy profit.

Hardly a wild fantasy -- come visit NY/Chicago/Philadelphia more often.

You are wrong.
Why don't you just man the EF up and admit it?

Let's review....

Me: A licensed locksmith with years of experience in the field who posted this thread in an effort to educate bicyclists that have questions about which locks to buy and how to lock their bicycles.

You: Some guy on the internet who has nothing better to do than nit-pick in an effort to make himself seem intelligent.

I am NOT sowing paranoia. You are the one who keeps using this word. I am providing information. People are smart. They will take this information and use it how they see fit, or consider how it should apply to them in their area/circumstances.

For the record, I just checked, and we have 11 U locks here in our shop that were broken in bike thefts since september '08. 5 of these are 'gold' rated. We also file photographic evidence of the locations and broken locks for insurance purposes. I cannot post these photos because they are not my property and/or the claim is still in process.

To anyone that is 'afraid' to lock their bike up in the city because of this information:
You should be. At least a little bit. It's a city. Crime happens.
The best thing you can do is bring your bike inside with you and keep an eye on it.
Barring that, use common sense, use good locks (more than one, preferably at least two different types), and try not to leave it for long.
Do these things, forget about it, ride your bike and enjoy.
I have lived in chicago off and on for about 18 years. Never had a bicycle stolen.
Use your brain.

Exactly which high-end locks were broken by thieves?

2 were new york Fahgettaboudit, 1- abus Granit Plus 51, 2- Kryptonite Evolution Series.

Thanks for the info.

FWIW, only the Fahgettaboudit is ART Four Star and Sold Secure gold. Were they cut or pried open?

All but one (of the above 5) were cut with a grinding wheel. The abus was pried.
And these are just the ones that my particular shop dealt with, AND theft where the perp happened to leave the lock. There are many others in which the lock is gone as well, so who knows....

5 in 6 months. (That I know of.) Far from irregular or infrequent.
It should be noted that all 5 of these were locking up very expensive, desirable bicycles. (All valued at minimum of 2500 USD$.)
I don't know why people ride such expensive bikes and lock 'em and leave 'em. I wouldn't. I guess they figure "Hell, I've got it insured....."

Here are some ideas.
I cannot recommend or denounce them as I have never used them or tried to defeat any of them.
Interesting though....

https://www.twenga.co.uk/offer/68853/...034934426.html


https://www.greenspeed.us/bike_alarm_lock.htm


https://www.twenga.co.uk/dir-Sports,C...le-lock-051141

I think I might give it a shot--I don't have much to lose except my remaining bikes. ;P

My Dad has a disc(brake) lock for his motorcycle that has an alarm built in. It super freaking loud,but then how many times have you heard a car alarm go off and just ignored it? It also goes off from vibration alot,and he's had it go off many times while in the process of unlocking it. Basically a pain to use,and only really useful if you're within earshot of it.

Thanks for the info crawdaddio

ditto!