Some lock advice from a locksmith
04-01-09 | 09:49 AM
#101
1. If there's always other bikes locked up where you lock up your bike, and they are as or more expensive than yours I don't see the point of worrying about someone "casing" your bike. If there's always bikes there, why would they "case" your bike when they could just steal another bike?
Everywhere I go I either have a U lock in my bag or an armored cable over my shoulder,so I'm used to hauling the weight. I also don't go anywhere without a multitool,patch kit,and pump,plus Sharpie,extra blinkies,duct tape,etc,etc. I've been around too many folks who've had something go wrong with their bike and didn't have anything to fix it with to fly slick. I just don't get how someone can just hop on their bike and ride off without carrying anything. But then I don't even go down to the laundry room without carrying a Swiss Army knife.
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C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line
C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Brompton S6L/S2E-X/M6L-X/S12 T Line
04-01-09 | 09:54 AM
#102
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By chain lock I mean something like these:
Kryptonite New York Chain
or
Kryptonite New York Noose
Like I said, I guess the appeal to me is being able to lock the wheels and frame with one lock. I know that's insufficient if someone REALLY wants the bike, but this area is relatively low risk and will have lots of bikes locked from mediocre to poor, so I feel like if I can be one of the most inconvenient to steal then I'm doing well.
If a u-lock with cable is better that's cool too.
Kryptonite New York Chain
or
Kryptonite New York Noose
Like I said, I guess the appeal to me is being able to lock the wheels and frame with one lock. I know that's insufficient if someone REALLY wants the bike, but this area is relatively low risk and will have lots of bikes locked from mediocre to poor, so I feel like if I can be one of the most inconvenient to steal then I'm doing well.
If a u-lock with cable is better that's cool too.
A U lock with cable is NOT better than those.
I suggest using ANOTHER U lock as deterrence/takes more time to cut through two, for those in a high risk area.
For your low risk area, either of those would be fine, even good.
04-01-09 | 09:55 AM
#103
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For the people who are saying that this is paranoia, say that after you've had something of value stolen from you. I've never had a bike stolen, but I did have someone break into my college apartment once (when I wasn't home), and take a bunch of camera equipment and an electric razor. The razor I wasn't concerned about because I didn't use it, but the camera equipment pissed me off.
But worst of all was the feeling of being violated in some way - of someone else having that much control over me that they could just take my stuff and me be powerless to stop them. Even if your bike is a beater, if you like it, and have enjoyed riding it, and rely on it for transportation, you will be super-upset if it gets stolen. Until you know that feeling, you should lay off on calling people paranoid that are advocating common sense.
But worst of all was the feeling of being violated in some way - of someone else having that much control over me that they could just take my stuff and me be powerless to stop them. Even if your bike is a beater, if you like it, and have enjoyed riding it, and rely on it for transportation, you will be super-upset if it gets stolen. Until you know that feeling, you should lay off on calling people paranoid that are advocating common sense.
Sorry 'bout your cameras.
I am also an avid photographer, with a pretty large collection valued in the thousands of dollars range. I would cry A LOT if they ever got stolen.
04-01-09 | 09:56 AM
#104
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For the people who are saying that this is paranoia, say that after you've had something of value stolen from you. I've never had a bike stolen, but I did have someone break into my college apartment once (when I wasn't home), and take a bunch of camera equipment and an electric razor. The razor I wasn't concerned about because I didn't use it, but the camera equipment pissed me off.
But worst of all was the feeling of being violated in some way - of someone else having that much control over me that they could just take my stuff and me be powerless to stop them. Even if your bike is a beater, if you like it, and have enjoyed riding it, and rely on it for transportation, you will be super-upset if it gets stolen. Until you know that feeling, you should lay off on calling people paranoid that are advocating common sense.
But worst of all was the feeling of being violated in some way - of someone else having that much control over me that they could just take my stuff and me be powerless to stop them. Even if your bike is a beater, if you like it, and have enjoyed riding it, and rely on it for transportation, you will be super-upset if it gets stolen. Until you know that feeling, you should lay off on calling people paranoid that are advocating common sense.
04-01-09 | 10:02 AM
#105
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Often, "poorly locked bikes" do not fetch as much at the flea market that the new $3000 bike does. Given the opportunity, a properly locked bike can and will be stolen. Motivation for profit is all that matters -- people can and will do anything for money, even if there is more risk than picking the low-hanging fruit.
04-01-09 | 10:09 AM
#107
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Often, "poorly locked bikes" do not fetch as much at the flea market that the new $3000 bike does. Given the opportunity, a properly locked bike can and will be stolen. Motivation for profit is all that matters -- people can and will do anything for money, even if there is more risk than picking the low-hanging fruit.
Do you have any actual reports of a high-end (ART four star and Sold Secure Gold) lock being defeated and a bike stolen? I can remember one report from Chicago.
04-01-09 | 10:22 AM
#108
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Yes. Of course I do. We've had this discussion before.
You obviously have never been to the Ashland Swap-o-Rama on the Chicago's southside or Brick Lanes in London where you can purchase a nearly new mid-level road bike for $150 or a fixed gear track bike for $100. Gee...I wonder how they can pass down such wonderful prices..? QBP account? I think not.
Stolen bikes end up at shady flea markets, pawn shops, or held in storage for a period time or parted out in ebay and craigslist. Where else do you think thieves sell stolen goods?
You obviously have never been to the Ashland Swap-o-Rama on the Chicago's southside or Brick Lanes in London where you can purchase a nearly new mid-level road bike for $150 or a fixed gear track bike for $100. Gee...I wonder how they can pass down such wonderful prices..? QBP account? I think not.
Stolen bikes end up at shady flea markets, pawn shops, or held in storage for a period time or parted out in ebay and craigslist. Where else do you think thieves sell stolen goods?
04-01-09 | 10:35 AM
#109
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Yes. Of course I do. We've had this discussion before.
You obviously have never been to the Ashland Swap-o-Rama on the Chicago's southside or Brick Lanes in London where you can purchase a nearly new mid-level road bike for $150 or a fixed gear track bike for $100. Gee...I wonder how they can pass down such wonderful prices..? QBP account? I think not.
Stolen bikes end up at shady flea markets, pawn shops, or held in storage for a period time or parted out in ebay and craigslist. Where else do you think thieves sell stolen goods?
You obviously have never been to the Ashland Swap-o-Rama on the Chicago's southside or Brick Lanes in London where you can purchase a nearly new mid-level road bike for $150 or a fixed gear track bike for $100. Gee...I wonder how they can pass down such wonderful prices..? QBP account? I think not.
Stolen bikes end up at shady flea markets, pawn shops, or held in storage for a period time or parted out in ebay and craigslist. Where else do you think thieves sell stolen goods?
04-01-09 | 10:38 AM
#110
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Regarding brick lane / stolen bikes at flea market, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the subject by reading through this long thread: https://www.londonfgss.com/thread123.html - you'll see how common it is without visiting the area.
04-01-09 | 10:42 AM
#111
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Expensive locks can and will be cut/drilled out (send a private message to the locksmith guy and ask how easy it is to drill out a high end u-lock) if the thief has an opportunity and a motive. 3 minutes with a portable angle grinder or a portable drill is all it takes. If one can make a few hundred bucks with a 1/2 hour of work, they'll do it even if it's risky. You're familiar with a concept called "crime" right?
What is so hard about grasping that even high-rated and expensive locks can be defeated and are being defeated in major cities?
04-01-09 | 11:01 AM
#112
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We've had this discussion before and I really do not want to rehash it.
Expensive locks can and will be cut/drilled out (send a private message to the locksmith guy and ask how easy it is to drill out a high end u-lock) if the thief has an opportunity and a motive. 3 minutes with a portable angle grinder or a portable drill is all it takes. If one can make a few hundred bucks with a 1/2 hour of work, they'll do it even if it's risky. You're familiar with a concept called "crime" right?
What is so hard about grasping that even high-rated and expensive locks can be defeated and are being defeated in major cities?
Expensive locks can and will be cut/drilled out (send a private message to the locksmith guy and ask how easy it is to drill out a high end u-lock) if the thief has an opportunity and a motive. 3 minutes with a portable angle grinder or a portable drill is all it takes. If one can make a few hundred bucks with a 1/2 hour of work, they'll do it even if it's risky. You're familiar with a concept called "crime" right?
What is so hard about grasping that even high-rated and expensive locks can be defeated and are being defeated in major cities?
04-01-09 | 11:17 AM
#113
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From: Houston, Tx
There is common sense (using a high-end lock and using it properly), and then there is paranoia (worrying about someone gluing your lock shut, etc). There seems to be a lot of people on this board who come up with wild fantasies about how bikes are stolen. Unless you are communing on a brand new $3000 bike in a major urban center chances are a thief is going to over pass your well locked bike and go for one of the many poorly locked bikes that are in every city I've ever been to.
In the case of a super-glued lock, we are just talking about carrying a lock around with you instead of leaving it on the bike rack. Even if it's a big honkin' chain and a heavy u-lock, we're talking about what - 3-4 lbs? Your body weight fluctuates that much depending on what time of day it is and the last time you used the bathroom. If you get a messenger bag or a $20 rack and a bungie cord, you won't even notice the added weight. Why not take that extra step if it means avoiding the hassle of buying another bike and avoiding the feeling that comes about when something you value gets taken from you?
04-01-09 | 11:40 AM
#114
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there is also the assumption that thieves know/care about security rates. most likely, they do not -- only bike nerds that spend alot of time online or in shops do. thieves will still attempt to compromise the locks no matter what the rating if they have the opportunity and desire to steal the bicycle. The only difference between a $300 Abus goldlevelfivestarmastersuper lock and a $32 budget On-Guard u-lock is an extra two minutes of attacking the lock with leverage, drilling out the u-lock, or attacking it with a grinder. And in a city where people mind their own business and police really could give a ratsass about bicycle theft, that's all the time in the world.
04-01-09 | 11:57 AM
#116
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there is also the assumption that thieves know/care about security rates. most likely, they do not -- only bike nerds that spend alot of time online or in shops do. thieves will still attempt to compromise the locks no matter what the rating if they have the opportunity and desire to steal the bicycle. The only difference between a $300 Abus goldlevelfivestarmastersuper lock and a $32 budget On-Guard u-lock is an extra two minutes of attacking the lock with leverage, drilling out the u-lock, or attacking it with a grinder. And in a city where people mind their own business and police really could give a ratsass about bicycle theft, that's all the time in the world.
04-01-09 | 12:10 PM
#117
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Done.
(As in- I'm done trying to prove to you something that I, and many others, already know to be a fact. The truth, and I, don't really care if you believe it or not. It remains the TRUTH.)
Last edited by crawdaddio; 04-01-09 at 12:39 PM.
04-01-09 | 12:54 PM
#118
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I'll go with the many users in high crime areas who still have their bikes as proof that high end locks work, rather than the claims of some guy who says that they are being defeated with regularity on the streets.
04-01-09 | 01:21 PM
#119
Hoopy Frood
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From: Los Angeles
Bikes: Trek 7.3fx, Peugeot PX-10, Fuji Roubaix Pro ('04), Cannondale R600, Triumph Roadsters, Raleigh 20, Univega Nuovo Sport, Schwinn Sierra, Bianchi Osprey, Peugeot NS-22, Batavus Champion, Haro Pulse.
Did you read the whole thread?
Crawdad does in fact recommend the use of multiple high end locks.
Where bikes go after they get stolen is interesting, but beside the point. What's being disputed here, and to what end?
Crawdad does in fact recommend the use of multiple high end locks.
Where bikes go after they get stolen is interesting, but beside the point. What's being disputed here, and to what end?
04-01-09 | 01:32 PM
#120
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What I'm disputing is the claim that high-end locks are being defeated in the wild with any regularity. Several people say that they are, yet have nothing to back it up with, not even a shred of anecdotal evidence.
04-01-09 | 02:02 PM
#121
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Because some guy on the internet claims it is with absolutely nothing to back it up? Um, okay.
I'll go with the many users in high crime areas who still have their bikes as proof that high end locks work, rather than the claims of some guy who says that they are being defeated with regularity on the streets.
I'll go with the many users in high crime areas who still have their bikes as proof that high end locks work, rather than the claims of some guy who says that they are being defeated with regularity on the streets.
And what happened before the internet existed? Nothing could be proven? Cummon........
You are just being difficult for the sake of being difficult.
Truth: It happens, regardless of whether or not you choose to believe it.
I am done responding to you unless you have some kind of valid, rational questions that I could help you with.
To everyone who has asked serious questions and posted helpful information on this thread, I thank you and you're welcome.
I hope that I have helped at least someone out there.
Last edited by crawdaddio; 04-01-09 at 02:10 PM.
04-01-09 | 03:08 PM
#122
Cycle Dallas
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From: Land of Gar, TX
Bikes: Dulcinea--2017 Kona Rove & a few others
I'd like to reiterate that this should be a sticky.
But, for some reason, this is all I could think of while reading today's offerings:
But, for some reason, this is all I could think of while reading today's offerings:
crawdaddio: You want answers?
Ziemas: I think I'm entitled to them.
crawdaddio: You want answers?
Ziemas: I want the truth!
crawdaddio: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has bicycles. And those bicycles have to be guarded by locks. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Mr. Laforge? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Fahgettaboudit and you curse the wheel lock. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Kryptonite, while tragic, saves bikes. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves American bikes...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at work, you want me on that lock patrol. You need me on that lock patrol.
We use words like bolt cutter, pry bar, grinder...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very security I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a U-Lock and stand opposed. Either way, I don't give a defeated combo lock what you think you're entitled to!
Ziemas: Did you criticize On Guard locks?
crawdaddio: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Ziemas: Did you order the On Guard locks?
crawdaddio: You're goll-darn-right I did!!
Ziemas: I think I'm entitled to them.
crawdaddio: You want answers?
Ziemas: I want the truth!
crawdaddio: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has bicycles. And those bicycles have to be guarded by locks. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Mr. Laforge? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Fahgettaboudit and you curse the wheel lock. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Kryptonite, while tragic, saves bikes. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves American bikes...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at work, you want me on that lock patrol. You need me on that lock patrol.
We use words like bolt cutter, pry bar, grinder...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very security I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a U-Lock and stand opposed. Either way, I don't give a defeated combo lock what you think you're entitled to!
Ziemas: Did you criticize On Guard locks?
crawdaddio: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Ziemas: Did you order the On Guard locks?
crawdaddio: You're goll-darn-right I did!!
04-01-09 | 05:04 PM
#124
Hoopy Frood
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Los Angeles
Bikes: Trek 7.3fx, Peugeot PX-10, Fuji Roubaix Pro ('04), Cannondale R600, Triumph Roadsters, Raleigh 20, Univega Nuovo Sport, Schwinn Sierra, Bianchi Osprey, Peugeot NS-22, Batavus Champion, Haro Pulse.
I strenuously object to the theft of my bikes, and indignantly demand their return.
I think this is an interesting point. Insurance companies and police departments compile lists of "targeted" models, which are sometimes surprising vs. expectations. For a long time, the Oldsmobile Cutlass (recent years) was one of the most targeted cars. Something to do with the universality of the parts it used (I guess it was truly a GM parts bin design and everything in it could be used to fix a nicer model) and popularity of the model in Mexico.
Is there any similar list for bikes? Are there brands/models that are targeted beyond what their price point alone would justify for some kind special fence/chop appeal?
Unless your bike is something that has been targeted, most thieves go for the easy prey first.
Is there any similar list for bikes? Are there brands/models that are targeted beyond what their price point alone would justify for some kind special fence/chop appeal?