He's right. I used to do locksmithing years ago.

and under what scenario would these locks be worth the price? when used with a cable, like you have recommended? no, because the cable would be cut before the padlock. with a chain? in that case why would the fancy expensive padlock be appreciably better than the disc lock that comes with chains? again, it isnt really relevant how hard the padlock is to pick, given that modern kryptonite type locks are never really picked.

true. although defeats of high end locks are rare. and the 120 dollar padlocks you recommend are more about your hope that folks will shop at the locksmith than a genuine effort to help anyone.

i am trying to be helpful. we do not need to waste money on 120 dollar super fancy padlocks with authorization control. thieves dont care about authorization control when they smash locks.

here is actual good advice: use a top end U lock, a mini if it fits your bike. use it like sheldon recommended. supplement it with a chain and disc lock if you are really super super worried. supplement it with a cable if you are not as worried. do not waste money on a super fancy expensive padlock to use with a cable as this gentleman has recommended.

I agree that we do NOT need to waste money on $120 locks. It's all about Stradgedy. U locks are a big "key" to all this as are thick cable locks in ADDITION to the U locks. WHERE and HOW you lock the bike is another "key". In a well traveled area so people can SEE if anyone is attempting a theft. If someone is using a grinder to open a lock then MORE THAN LIKELY they should NOT be using that grinder. REPORT those kind of people.

correct. proper u locks/chains/disc locks are not really cut by manual tools, and users of power tools do not care if you have sworn affadavits and a birth certificate required at the locksmith for key control.

the expense of key control is absolutely not worth it, i dont care what this locksmith says. the key control has really nothing to do with bike security. thieves are neither picking the lock nor duplicating your key while you are not looking.

I think the point of key control in this case was the higher quality of the locks produced for key-control product lines, not protection against duplication. Crawdaddio doesn't stand to gain anything by his postings here, unless you think that somehow some tiny portion of whatever already impossibly small and statistically insignificant uptick in purchasing might be caused by this thread is somehow going to trickle down to him and magically be transmuted into a fortune large enough to pay for his retirement. Or that he's a fake, an astroturf sockpuppet concocted by the marketing arm of an imagined cartel of locksmiths bent on the exploitation of the bicycling community. In which case I submit to you that the reason you can't afford better locks is because all your money is going into tinfoil for your hat, and refer you to Crawdad's blood-on-bike thread for re-education.

In any case, there's no doubt of your sock-puppitude. As is often said on another forum, far across the internet: man up and post on your main.

if we agree that the key management is a non-feature, why pay for it? or why would these locks be harder for power tools to bust than, for example, a much cheaper basic beefy kryptonite disc lock specifically made to protect bikes and motorcycles from street thieves?

he works as a locksmith and wants to impress upon people in general that locksmiths are needed. but cyclists generally have no need for the sort of locks he describes and would in fact be wasting money on them, particularly if they use these expensive locks with a cable, as the locksmith fellow has advocated here.

Because of their higher quality. These are locks designed to protect high-value possessions. Thus they have superior build quality, and advanced features like key control, get it? They are a further improvement on the level of security offered by standard U-locks, and it's up to you to decide what your bike and its locking situation calls for.

He didn't advocate a one size fits all solution. And I don't see how using a cable as a further deterrent makes the U-lock less effective. The U-lock is still doing the primary job of immobilizing the frame and back wheel.

Anyway, your sad attempt at trolling is full of fail. Slink off yonder from whence you came and let this thread make its way to the archives in peace.

+1. I'm leaving his posts though. The relevant information is available, everyone can make up their own mind regarding their locking strategy.

--Juha, a Forum Mod

because they cost more does not mean they have a higher build quality or are harder to break. it may mean the keys are far harder to pick or duplicate, which again, is not relevant.

and it is up to locksmiths to convince you to spend money at a locksmith.

of course. please pay attention. my point is that a cable is a great idea. but it would only require a cheap padlock, because the cable itself can be cut so easily. why use a 120 dollar padlock with a 12 dollar cable that can be cut in 3 seconds? i am not sure why you do not understand this.


this is the internet, but that doesnt mean you have to use internet terms and ignore what i say in favor of addressing me.

Listen here.
I don't care how you use the information I have posted in this thread. You are an adult and have your own opinion. Use it. Don't buy a lock at a locksmith, it doesn't matter to me in the slightest. I want to see theft numbers go down. That's it. Whatever works for you in your area/risk of theft.

I posted this thread because I see a lot of lock question threads pop up here, and I thought my years of experience with locks might be helpful to someone. Apparently, I was wrong. I have spent more time in this thread defending myself from nit-pickers than answering questions about locks. Regardless of what you might think, I am not in this for any sort of profit.

I do have an immense amount of knowledge regarding locks, key systems, how a MASSIVE variety of locks are made, how they can be defeated, and how they ARE BEING DEFEATED BY THIEVES regularly in the real world (chicago).

Some locks are better than others.
Buy a cheap lock, get a cheap lock.
(This goes for pretty much everything that you can buy in life, in my experience.)
That is all I will say about that.

Absolutely false. In larger cities it happens every day.
I have years of experience, and deal with theft on a daily basis.

What information do you have to back up your claim?
None.
You are guessing.

BTW, to everyone reading this, here is an interesting read:
https://quickrelease.tv/?p=327

lets assume for the sake of argument that high end locks are in fact being busted all the time. they are not, but fine. you have some broken locks in your shop that you sawed off for customers, so you see some broken locks laying around and assume thieves got them.

if it is in fact true that top end locks are being broken, then doesnt that mean the expense of your fancy key authorization locks is even more wasted, given that keys are not the weak point, and power tools will pretty much break anything?

again, my argument is that all you need to know about locks can be learned here:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html

and then you purchase some top brand locks like kryptonite or onguard at your LBS. your locksmith shop would not require a visit, unless you like to waste money on lock duplication protection which is totally irrelevant. those sort of locks might be great for homes or garages, i dunno. but bikes are ok with bike locks.

i appreciate your input and all, but i think your links to 120 dollar padlocks are bad advice, especially when paired with your advice about pairing them with cables as a secondary defense. then the money spent on the padlock would be a total waste, a 100 dollar loss.

Stop making assumptions and calling me a liar. It is rude. I am not lying. These are 'gold' rated locks, and they were broken by thieves. I PERSONALLY photograph them on site and in our shop, and document the theft case for insurance purposes. I PERSONALLY deal with customers after their bikes get stolen (among other things). I KNOW FOR A FACT that it happens.

Why is this ONE point so hard for so many people to believe? Hear no evil, see no evil? You are like a little child with his hands cupped tightly around his ears "they don't steal bikes! they don't steal bikes! they don't break high end locks! they don't steal bikes! lalalalalalala.....I can't HEAR you....lalalala..."

It is true. Even high end locks get broken by thieves. Then they take your bike.
It happens.
Deal with it.

ok. i just said lets assume that is true. as far as i have seen, the overwhelming majority of stolen bikes were poorly locked, left in the same place forever. but ok.

i get it. lets assume that it is true. like i said before, this makes your advice about the 120 dollar padlock even worse.

isnt it true that the vast majority of bike losses have nothing to do with nice locks being picked or keys duplicated? if the locks are defeated they are broken with burly tools. the same burly tools that break your expensive key-registered padlocks.

you dont get a free pass for bad advice because of good intentions.

anyways, that is all i have to say. have a good day, amigo.

It takes roughly 30-45 seconds to cut through a U lock with a cordless angle grinder.
It takes roughly 5-8 minutes to cut through a hardened, shrouded shackle padlock that is well made.
That buys a lot of time. To a thief, more time than they want to spend (usually).

Granted, they will just cut your cable before the padlock. A hardened hex chain is way more difficult to cut through than a cable. It is hard to hold it taut while you try to cut through. That being said, we are talking about a SECONDARY lock, say, for your wheels. You should also have a U lock through the frame somewhere.

MOST thieves will just move on when they see a bike locked up in this way.

If you don't think a HEAVY DUTY padlock is worth the expense, don't buy one.
You keep getting caught up on the restricted key system, and how useless it is. I recommend these padlocks for those looking for the BEST PADLOCKS made. High quality. Made with hardened materials and cylinder protection. The key restriction is just a bonus, and I recommended it, mainly, to a customer who already had MTL keys on his condo. Key the padlock to his key, and BAM, carry one key.


You have a nice day too. It is really warm and sunny today, let's get out and ride.........

Assuming you are correct, just what should a law enforcement officer do differently if he/she cared?

The Karma gods are going to have a field day with this.

doug99;

I personally appreciate the effort that the OP has put into this thread and find your attitude more than a bit nasty and impolite. I have been following this thread from day one and have learned from it, both from the OP's posts and from many others, so GET OFF OF HIS BACK.

What locks you choose to use is entirely up to you and your own PERSONAL assessment of the risk of theft in your area and your parking situation. No need to attack the OP or his opinions and accuse him of being a shill for the locksmith industry. I could equallly well consider you a shilll for the bike thief industry based on your posts.

From my viewpoint all the OP has done is provide information on the alternatives available along with the warning that a determined bike thief can defeat ANY lock given time and the right equipment. I personally carry both a NY Fahgedabouddit (?) and a medium weight Abus chain lock. I also frequently ride a $3500 bike around town.

I finally found a bike that NO ONE can steal:

Agreed! Let's quit our bickering, and go for a ride. (I'm stuck in the office until 5pm though )

i think you folks are a bit sensitive.

that is silly. i heartily encourage everyone to read sheldon's lock strategy page. and my advice has been intended to help us save money and our bikes.

yes, you are smart to not heed the advice of the OP.

which has been my point all along. the padlock is not the weak point and therefore not worth spending lots of money on. however, you are certainly correct that it would be nice to use your home key on your bike. although it should be noted that kryptonite will be happy to key locks alike. i have a kryptonite U and a disc lock(w/chain) keyed alike so i only need one key. of course, under your system, the U would still be a unique key your would have to carry.

perhaps your locksmith shop should make a total one key solution. that would be pretty awesome. one key to rule them all, one of your fancy keys that would work on my U, my chain padlock, my house, whatever.

Why do people take their busted locks to a locksmith?

That's like asking
"Why do people take their busted car to a mechanic?

Huh? My wrench can R&R a busted CV joint, or fix my gear box. How do you fix a lock that has been cut or pried open? It's a serious question I have for you. I truly don't understand why someone who has had their lock compromised by a thief would take the busted and unfixable lock to a locksmith.

EDIT: Of course I'm talking about the U-locks you mentioned earlier.

I work as a licensed investigative locksmith.
We are called out sometimes to determine exactly how someone was broken into, or how a lock was defeated for the police and/or insurance companies.

They don't bring them in, I go out to the scene.
Very occasionally, I even have to testify in court.
This is only one very small aspect of what I do though.