I think that anything that can be reasonably be done to help the environment is generally a good thing. One of the questions that I've asked of friends of mine that own a Prius when they site fuel economy, etc. is why not go with something along the lines of a VW tdi model? This is conventional old but very refined diesel technology that is very durable, and gets consistently great milage much like our conventional old but very refined bicycles that we all enjoy.

I'm not out to slam anyones choice in vehicle. I just replaced my old grand cherokee with a newer model due quite simply to the fact that my old one has over 215k on the clock and ny winters have beat it up a bit. That being said I still haven't decided if I'm going to scrap it or give it to a family member in the spring once i've cleaned it up a bit.

Parris George

I think mainly because most people who buy Prius (like myself) can easily afford them, if not much more expensive cars. We want the reliability, convenience, and yes, even social approval of driving a recent-gen car and are willing to pay for it.

Diesel is good and all - we used to have a diesel vehicle in the late 80s, but I remember more than a few times traveling out in the countryside, when there was a local shortage of diesel, and we would get really stressed out doing a huge sidetrack looking for diesel, as the gas stations that advertised carrying it were all out.

I'll bet that $ that it has a timing belt, chain or gear. Show me a multi-cylinder gasoline engine that doesn't.

You come across as the Prius owner that thinks the car is the shiznit because of the fact it's a hybrid without truly doing the research of what it's true impact is on this planet. Then when you do find out you do "well others are worse!" It's a well researched fact that the impact of the hybrid battery packs are FAR higher than the lead/acid batteries you claim are "nastier" I'll grant neither are good, but yours doesn't smell like roses like you want to believe.

And while you cite that the Ford and the Prius are the "same" that's a well known fallacy. In the hybrid's infancy Ford and Toyota signed cross-licensing agreements to keep the patent lawyer sharks out of the pool in the event they crossed over each other. Wise move IMHO, but the uninformed people just say "they're the same"

Reality is that at the end of the day I bought American and I'll have more $ in my pocket, both of which count to me and hopefully some American auto industry worker that still has a job. . Rest is just fodder for getting panties in a wad on an internet message board

The main knock I have against diesel is that it's readily available...globally. I'm no petro-engineer, but I think that diesel is the by-product in the making of gasoline. We use gas in the States, whereas most of the rest of the world uses diesel*. What would happen to the world's petrol supplies if we switched lock, stock, and barrel to diesel? E-85 is not the answer. These gas/electric hybrids aren't the most ideal, either. Diesel/electric would give you way more MPG.

Around here, CNG is an option. Local natural gas company has fueling stations available to the public, not just fleet customers. I've seen info about CNG kits that would allow you to top off the tank overnight off your home's gas line. The main drawback is that they are a dedicated system, so you really have to keep an eye on your fuel tank, and plan your route accordingly.

*Brazil is burning fuel based on sugar.

Aw, crap, y'all got worked about cars on a bike forum. I feel so dirty. Must cleanse the cycling spirit by looking at bike prOn.

I own a Ford Taurus, and I didn't do my brakes until about 120,000 miles, and they didn't need to be done then, I just decided to replace all the consumables at that point. I think I could have made 140,000 miles before replacing the pads.

It's at 130,000 miles now, and all that's been done to it is that one of the radiator pipes rusted out, so I replaced that ($80), and the vehicle speed sensor got flaky, so I replaced that ($40). Normal oil changes (I only change every 8 to 10 thousand miles), new tires about every 40K. And as I said, at 120,000 miles, I replaced all the consumables (air/fuel filters, flushed and refilled all the fluids). Since the engine uses a timing chain, not a belt, it has no recommended change interval; you drive it until it starts to make noise then replace it. On cars I've owned in the past with chains, typically I've replaced them at somewhere around 200 to 250 thousand miles.

I've had similar experiences with all of the 5 cars I've owned, both new and used. Any car can be a low maintenance vehicle if you treat it like the investment it is while driving. Unfortunately people think it's fun to drive aggressively. A woman at work goes through brakes every 15,000 miles and spends a lot getting her car fixed all the time; after riding with her once, I know why. I won't ride with her anymore. There's another guy who has serious anger management issues, and his car is in the shop constantly, it seems like; I think I hear him on the phone at least once a month with his mechanic.

I'd be a bit concerned about saying that the engine going on and off meant that you didn't have to change the oil as much. One of the big things that kills oil is water getting into it, and the way you stop that is by letting the engine get hot enough to evaporate out the water for a long time. Running an engine a few minutes at a time is the worst way to treat an engine.

I was gonna give you grief about the Focus being built elsewhere, but yup, it's built in Michigan (at least the North American version):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus_(North_America)



Of course, I could also buy a Camry and say that I'm keeping a couple US factories running, too.

the prius is still an ugly car. its great that its super eco friendly and that it gets great gas mileage but its an eyesore.
Id rather have my 2001 Suzuki XL-7 that has 125,000 miles on it and gets 17city 20hwy than a brand new prius. Bought the car used with 54,000 miles on it and NEVER had/have any problems with it. True reliability right there
I dont car much for cars but it needs to be good looking and reliable. the prius doesnt even have a shape it's so odd and ugly looking.
anywho once again my personal opinion!

I wouldn't either. The only time I was in a Prius was in a taxicab. I'd get a lobotomy job before I would ever want to own a Prius. There's a reason why hybrid cars never really caught on in RoW thanks to diesel technology. But to each their own right? So I guess good on you. Now you can say you share something in common with Brad Pitt and George Clooney. And now you can post your hybrid in the Hybrid Forum section.

So you're hedging on gas price will go up in 2020 by a buying a Prius 2010?

I had a different experience of the maintenance-free used car. The car that got totaled for the Prius was a 1997 Honda Civic. It only had 80,000 miles on it - and I drive like a grandmother. Seriously - all my friends and even my father's friends make fun of how dowdy a driver I am, especially given my reputation as a racer on the bicycle. That Civic was rated as one of the most reliable cars, and still is today. Which is while those Civics have such good resale value relative to other brands.

Things wore out regularly after 5-6 years. Power window engine wore out, $350 repair. "AC Compressor" (not just required for AC apparently - also the engine) - over $1000 to repair. Cracked suspension (like I said, I drive like a dowdy - have no idea how that happened) - $800. New wheels - $400. New brakes, mufflers, and other small things. One radio speaker fuzzed out - not worth the $350 repair/replacement for a low-end radio. Regular maintenance and tuneups. And I didn't even fix any of the cracked bumpers that were none of my fault, but consequences of living in an urban environment where people hit you.

Older cars can drive great, but when things inevitably break, they cost money to repair. And when your car is only worth $3000, it gets tough to justify the inevitable $500-$1000 repairs that regularly start popping up as things you never heard of start wearing out. And I never drove this car aggressively (not even close), or on anything remotely off-road. I barely drove 10,000 miles per year, and I treated it well - the interior was "mint" - people were always shocked when I told them how old the car was when they were inside because it looked like a new car on the inside.

Don't get me wrong - I loved that car - I'd still say it was rock-solid reliable, inexpensive to repair (relative to other cars), and drove great. Just that even if you don't drive the vehicle that much, there's still a toll on parts that I think is unavoidable with cars this old. If you buy a 5+ year old car and expect to pay very little for maintenance in the ensuing 3-5 years, you're in for a surprise.

Makes sense to me. Short trips are bad for cars.
As for the Prius -- good choice! I'm basically a traditional sports car snob who doesn't like any car less made less than 30 years ago.
However, a friend got a Prius, and let me drive. I loved it! I think the big reason is that it's so well engineered. Also, it is so thoroughly modern that one does not fall into the temptation of comparing it to the classics -- it is simply itself.

Bicycle content -- you should get a bike rack for it for the days you have to take it (or the bike) to the shop.

Enjoy efficient surface transportion, both manual and powered,

Paul

. . . and ZERO maintenance $$ on your bike (s) right???
Never needs lubrication, tires/tubes, chain, cables, brakepads, tune-up, waxing/cleaning . . .

It's a "world car, like so many others. I don't think there's one to be had that's made exclusively here

Yeah, but when the dollars go home to roost it's not on american soil I'm not so blind as to not recognize that it's a global economy, but when profits get re-invested I'd much prefer that they do so closer to home. And Frankly, the Focus has even to my surprise been a really solid little car. I bought it as a cheap commuter, and it's lived up to every expectation.

If you pay cash for that car, and balance out what you would have lost in depreciation and overall cost versus a new car it still could however be a wiser financial move. At it's basics, it's just transportation, so whatever is the lowest on a cost per mile is the overall winner no matter how you shake it.

I believe the Euro Focus <> US Focus. The former being a superior car over the North American one. Might have something to do with union worker needing their jobs. But who knows. There are many so-called world car in name only like the Honda Accord, Mazda6 etc that are distinct to North Americans usually supersized vs. RoW versions usually smaller and nimbler.

Correct. I think the first true "World" car that the Ford lineup is supposed to see is the 2011 Fiesta. https://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/fiesta/

Exactly - If the OP has a brand new car and it is sitting there while they debate going car-free there will be a horrible depreciation(value lost per use) and cost per use(insurance cost + msrp vehicle cost / # of uses ) on the car. Cars that aren't driven suffer mechanical troubles also. Now they could just sell the car, brand new, take the $30,000 or whatever one of those "money saver" cars go for and use that for the rentals or "expensive" zip cars. Of course, the depreciation is only relevant to the discussion if they plan to sell the vehicle. A car is a negative asset, not like a home which can gain value simply by sitting there.

Drive the thing into the ground and you'll get good value, of course it was alluded to that value wasn't the op's concern... strange but, ok.

If you aren't driving it into the ground i would dare to say you aren't getting good value and should just switch to a rental or zip-car plan... most likely you will come out ahead in terms of finances. Of course, cars in north america really aren't just basics... they're people's identities.

Good points - but impractical in my case. As much as I love the idea of Zip cars or intermittent car rentals, reality is that I just can't go fully car free here without big sacrifices on both the job front and social/life front. I will likely have kids in my life in the upcoming years, and that pretty much will require a car of some sort where I live, unfortunately.

If I had a low-paying job, or I had more free time than money, rentals (or Zip) would definitely be the much cheaper way to go. I also completely agree that if money were the paramount concern, buying a 3-4 year old used nonpopular car would be far cheaper.

Suffice to say I am more than willing to pay the thousands per year to have the convenience of a good, reliable car at my ready disposal.

As said before though, with my future job transitions, TIME will be the single most precious asset to me. I'll also say (and I know you're going to jump all over me for saying this, but please refrain from the wise$$$ comments if at all possible) that a $30k Prius actually will a very minor expense for me in the upcoming years. To the point that I seriously considered buying a BMW or Mercedes or Porsche, but decided that that type of luxury wasn't compatible with my personal values, regardless of income.

I agree on the insurance bit as well - I feel like I'm paying through the nose, even with "lo-mileage driver insurance." On the other side, I really can't complain, as GEICO wrote me a check for nearly twice the blue book cost of my car after it got totaled in the hit and run - no questions asked. I was shocked at how easy they made the post-crash aftermath, and excellent customer service. I'm sticking with them.

Which is a Mazda2. A car that is available here in 2010.
You can probably buy 2 of these with change for the price of a Prius. And I bet being a Mazda, it will be a fun little car therefore you will want to drive it.

Yup, I hear that is how it works down there everybody is all smiles because they'll be getting a big check - but if you're somehow found at fault prepare to be stripped. I would suggest getting twice the value for your old civic is borderline defrauding of the driver and his/her insurance company, but I don't know how such things work... I guess the at fault driver will be paying through the nose now?

Ok first of all, congrats to the OP and other Prius drivers for owning one. Many people have mentioned that buying an older car, or eepng a car for a long tme, is what will truly benefit the environment. Unfortuantly we live in a society where social status has importance, and being seen in an old car jsut wont cut the mustard. In reply, people with the older cars would say the new car owners have shallow personalities and are insecure in themselves. Perhaps. Perhaps not. The point is, social status is important to those who have at least a modest income. That's just the way society is. Time was when watching the news meant discussing important issues. These days news is all about glamor, Celebrity Big Brother, X-Factor, I cant believe these dumb programs make the headlines whene there are more important things to discuss; looks like people have just got bored of "real news".

Next, some people mention the Prius owners "need" to do a bunch of research to see how much toxicity their car produces over the typical ownership period of that car, including battery manufactur, shipping, disposal of batteries, of cars, etc. Fine, I see you point. But try telling that to politicians, the ones who promote hybrid cars. Aren't hybrid cars all the rage in CA for example? In London, hybrid cars get tax benefits, and I would rather spend money on metal (the Prius) than getting a cheaper car and putting the money saved towards taxes for our beloved government.]


Third, if you're in the market for a new car for around £20k (or whatever the cost is in USA), would you put your money into a diesel car? You really wanna spend £20k on a car to start it up in the morning and it sounds like a pos? I dont. I would rather startt my £20k car in the morning and it either sounds glorious, or is dead silent, and NOT like a POS tractor that's about to do the rounds on the local farm. And please dont tell me diesels these days are refined. They are more refined than they used to be, but I live in the UK where half the cars are diesel, and they stink, and they sound like crap (yes, including the smoothest BMW and Honda diiesels). They're fine when cruising, but they are NOT as refined as gas engines, especially under acceleration or standstill.

I am intrigued by hybrid cars but I cant justify the cost for myself to get one. The batteries eat up too much cargo space, besides I like a car with more excitement and economy has never been exciting in anyone's book.

I would also be intrigued as to how many people are reading this on a laptop right now and how old your laptop is (that's a rhetorical question, we wont use this thread to deviate from original topic ). Ps: good and interesting thread.

May I also add... the problem I also have with diesel fuel in the UK, is diesel costs less to produce than petrol (gasoline). Yes in the UK it costs more per litre to buy. Why? Because the government has seen diesel cars being more fuel efficient than petrol cars, so users filling up as the gas-station less often. Is there an additional tax on diesel that makes it more expensive, because it sure isn't more expensive to produce.

In the US it is simular. Diesel cost more then Gasoline. Most of this has to do with the vast majority of our goods are transported by diesel and they tax the hell out of it as a result. They have made it extremly hard to make bio fuel and trying to figure out how to tax that. I hear McDonalds in Europe use their old fryer oils and make it into bio diesel to run their delivery fleet on. Good financial and good for the environment. Cant do it in the US because the government cant figure out how to tax it. Once it is taxed then it no longer make fiscal sense.
Agricultural diesel has less taxes on it and dyed a different color then "Road" diesel. You get caught with Ag diesel in a commercial vehicle HUGE fine (Tax recovery).


I had considered converting my 4Runner (Surf in the UK) to Diesel when the motor needed rebuilding. Supposedly it would get around 30mpg verses the 24mpg it gets on Gas. The math wouldnt work. I would never recover the cost of the conversion. It makes no sense but our tax system actually makes it financially prohibitive to be "green" in any areas.

I won't add to the goods and bads of owning a Prius. I would never own one because I don't like driving appliances and that is what they are to me (no offense to anyone who owns one). The 2010s do look darn good though. I bought an 09 Yaris back in August and couldn't be happier with my purchase. It has no power options, handles really well with some suspension tweaks, gets darn near 40 mpg and can haul quite a bit of stuff. I was looking at getting a used Focus hatchback but I couldn't find it in decent condition that didn't have power options and that was decently priced for mileage on the clock. I ended up test driving an 07 Yaris and the clutch and shifter felt so bad to me that it turned the rest of the car off for me. I test drove an 09 next and it was night and day and the rest is history.

Only if you allow other people to rule you.

A friend of mine owns a TDi Jetta and is now going to some facilities that reuse old fish 'n chips/McDonalds fryer oils. He said the car runs fine although it does smell abit of french fries. I think it's a great alternative! Smart one at it. There are a few facilities in Vancouver area that provide this at a low cost.