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Old 09-03-11 | 06:19 AM
  #76  
Igo
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Old 09-03-11 | 06:47 AM
  #77  
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From: The Open Road
Originally Posted by Schwinnrider
Let's address your questions one by one---

" Can you brake or shift from the tops or the curves behind the brake hoods?" What do you mean? If I felt the need to brake from the tops, I'd install an inexpensive pair of cyclocross brake levers, and that would be that.With my drops, I can brake from the hoods and the drops, and getting my hand to the brake from the ramp or the top is a matter of a second. Not a big deal. As far as shifting from that position, why? It's not difficult for me to reach down to my barcon and shift. Too much emphasis is placed on the need to shift IMMEDIATELY. Pedal harder. It's good cardio.
Don't tell me. You're a retrogrouch. One of those guys who says, "I personally don't need something therefore it's stupid." Believe it or not, there are about six billion other people in the world and some of them might just think a little differently.

"How much does it cost to convert to drop bars? New handlebars, new stem, new brake/shift levers." That depends. Nashbar offers a drop bar for $25, and barcons will cost you AT MOST $100. eBay is always a source for cheaper parts. As a matter of fact, there are Ultegra barcons on eBay right now for $60. New stem? Maybe, maybe not. Still, even if you have to do that, it's going to end up cheaper than $275 and will weigh less.
That's why I told him to get it down to less than $150. Honestly, do you try to read before you knock something? And an awful lot of people don't trust used parts bought on eBay or refuse to buy on eBay at all. I have no problem with doing so, but I'm not like you in believing my attitude is the only one that matters.

"Plus they don't work with most cable-operated disc brakes and definitely no hydraulics." A Google search for "disc brakes with road levers" reveals there are LOTS of people using that combination.
That's what happens when you rely on Google rather than experience. AFAIK, only one disc brake will work with road levers because of the different cable travel: the Avid BB7 version designed specifically for road use, and BB7s aren't cheap. So yes, most cable-operated discs won't work. You could add pulleys and other things to change cable travel, but this attitude of yours that "it's too complicated, so I can do it my way by adding different complication" is rather silly, too.

What this product does not address is being able to CHANGE HAND POSITION. That's one of the keys to comfort. That's why tourists, who will spend 8 hours a day in the saddle, use either drops or trekking bars overwhelmingly. Being able to move from the tops to the ramp to the hood to the drops allows one's hands to recover. All being able to raise the stem does, IMHO, is rest one's back. But if someone is so uncomfortable they need to raise the bars that high, I think they'll tend to keep the bar in the most comfortable position.
You're making assumptions that aren't very defensible. Touring cyclists don't use drops just to rest their hands. They also use them to vary their body position. Go lower to fight headwinds. Sit higher to breathe easier and take in the sights. Switch it up to use tired leg and gluteal muscles slightly differently. Use your favorite tool, Google. Do an image search for "touring bike" and you'll find that quite a few have flat bars. Over decades of riding, I've owned drops, flat with bar-ends (I used bar-ends before most people even heard of them), Scott AT-2/3/4, cowhorn, WTB flared drops, trekking and other handlebars you've never even heard of. When I did have drops, I spent over 95% of my time on the hoods because it was the most comfortable position and I could reach the brakes. I never had tired hands that needed rest. But again, unlike you, I don't believe my experience is the only valid one.

Last edited by streetstomper; 09-03-11 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 09-03-11 | 08:47 AM
  #78  
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I appreciate the input from everyone. I learn so much from reading this....Thank you.
From my own experience, (as the inventor, maybe a bit bias)
I don't care for drop bars because I do not like to stay in the down position all of the time and I don't like having my hands so close together in the up position.
I have used the EZRIDE for over two years now. It does add weight and it is a mechanical device and yes it will cost somewhere between $100-$150.
As a sanity check I put my original stem back on occasionally just to see if this "contraption" is worth it. In doing so I continue to find more benefits:
When I ride wearing a backpack (laptop), I like to ride higher up. This keeps my back straighter and less "pull" against the straps.
Also, the shock absorption feature of the EZRIDE is something that I have grown very use to. I did not realize this until I went back to a solid stem.
This may not be for everyone. There is something to be said for keeping things simple and less mechanical. But, if you ride like i ride (in many different conditions) and want to have the ability to adapt to different conditions...this is worth the trade-off. Keep sending your comments...
I wonder if the bicycle rental folks would be interested in this? www.jlsdesignworks.com

Last edited by bikeguy55; 09-03-11 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 09-03-11 | 09:31 PM
  #79  
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Bike Guy, The video got me fired up to buy some Jeff Beck. The stem didn't do much for me. Good luck with it!
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Old 09-04-11 | 10:16 AM
  #80  
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I get it...Old stuff is safe, new ideas take some imagination/risk...After 30 years of mechanical design and 26 patents I understand completely, stay safe my friend.

Originally Posted by WMBIGS
Bike Guy, The video got me fired up to buy some Jeff Beck. The stem didn't do much for me. Good luck with it!

Last edited by bikeguy55; 09-04-11 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 09-04-11 | 10:51 AM
  #81  
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From: The Open Road
Have you considered a coil spring to provide height-adjustment force plus an elastomer bumper for shock absorption? It would reduce costs considerably over air cylinders. Better yet, use the same size elastomers as Cane Creek uses for their Thudbuster, which would provide widely available and inexpensive spares. Hate to say it, but if you don't reduce costs as much as possible, a big company can easily come in and undercut you.
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Old 09-04-11 | 12:05 PM
  #82  
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The issue has been ...how to lock it in one place by using only the force of a thumb lever. This led to the clylinders. I am open to any ideas as you are completely correct about pricing. I will check out the Thudbuster. Thanks Jon

Originally Posted by streetstomper
Have you considered a coil spring to provide height-adjustment force plus an elastomer bumper for shock absorption? It would reduce costs considerably over air cylinders. Better yet, use the same size elastomers as Cane Creek uses for their Thudbuster, which would provide widely available and inexpensive spares. Hate to say it, but if you don't reduce costs as much as possible, a big company can easily come in and undercut you.
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Old 09-07-11 | 07:03 AM
  #83  
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Are you interested in trying one of the EZRIDES?

Hello Sixty Fiver,
Would you like to tryout an EZRIDE system and then give us your feedback? Free of charge of course.
If so, contact me and I will arrange to send you one. You need a 1.125" diameter fork shaft and a 1" diameter handlebar. An installation video is on my website. It usually takes about five minutes to install.

my email is jonlsullivan@hotmail.com and my website www.JLSDESIGNWORKS.com

Take Care
Jon

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
I am alway skeptical of new products but this looks rather interesting and if it was well made and remained solidly fixed in place after adjustments I can see it having many practical uses.

I am involved in the bicycle business at many levels, I run a small shop, work in a larger one as a builder, fabricator, and mechanic, and am looking to carry new products at a new location with a focus on local and North American made products.

And if you want to see this tested at -30C to see how it works... I can do that.

If anything, post up some detailed shots so we can get a better look at this.

Last edited by bikeguy55; 09-07-11 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 10-02-11 | 07:44 PM
  #84  
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Hello,
I am very interested in this. Where can I buy one? What is the cost?
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Old 10-02-11 | 10:02 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by bikeguy55
Hello Sixty Fiver,
Would you like to tryout an EZRIDE system and then give us your feedback? Free of charge of course.
If so, contact me and I will arrange to send you one. You need a 1.125" diameter fork shaft and a 1" diameter handlebar. An installation video is on my website. It usually takes about five minutes to install.

my email is jonlsullivan@hotmail.com and my website www.JLSDESIGNWORKS.com

Take Care
Jon
email sent
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Old 10-02-11 | 10:10 PM
  #86  
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Bikes: Soma Saga, 1991 Sirrus, Specialized Secteur Elite, Miele Umbria Elite.

I saw the Youtube video. Interesting. For $50 I might well consider that.

On the other hand, regarding the video... Did pay Jeff Beck his due royalties for using his music?

Last edited by gitarzan; 10-02-11 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 10-02-11 | 10:56 PM
  #87  
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I think it's very interesting but personally I'm not sure what bike I'd have it on, as I'm generally a fan of drops or bar ends - I like having my wrists at those angles and it feels more natural to me (I even do push-ups this way).

Too bulky/heavy for my road bike for which I like the drops enough on (but I agree that when riding more upright I don't always like the narrower grip).

I also wouldn't put something so exotic/expensive on my commuter/beater which I have to lock up. The extra 3 lbs or so probably wouldn't be worth it over the relatively short length of my commute, as my commuter is heavy enough already...

Maybe if I was a tourer/randonneur I'd consider it though. Weight/bulk wouldn't matter, but comfort would. The extra damping on the wrists/arms would be nice and being able to adjust on the fly would be handy when you're riding so many hours in the day.
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Old 10-02-11 | 11:38 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Get booth space at the Taipei Bike Trade show, Taiwan.
then bring your prototypes and prospectus there.
that is where the bicycle industry investment and manufacturing is,
that's why so much of it , bike stuff, comes from there.
I think it might be the other way around, lots of stuff happens at the Taipei Bike Trade Show because lots of manufacturing happens there.....

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Old 10-02-11 | 11:52 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by bikeguy55
I appreciate the input from everyone. I learn so much from reading this....Thank you.
From my own experience, (as the inventor, maybe a bit bias)
I don't care for drop bars because I do not like to stay in the down position all of the time and I don't like having my hands so close together in the up position.
I have used the EZRIDE for over two years now. It does add weight and it is a mechanical device and yes it will cost somewhere between $100-$150.
As a sanity check I put my original stem back on occasionally just to see if this "contraption" is worth it. In doing so I continue to find more benefits:
When I ride wearing a backpack (laptop), I like to ride higher up. This keeps my back straighter and less "pull" against the straps.
Also, the shock absorption feature of the EZRIDE is something that I have grown very use to. I did not realize this until I went back to a solid stem.
This may not be for everyone. There is something to be said for keeping things simple and less mechanical. But, if you ride like i ride (in many different conditions) and want to have the ability to adapt to different conditions...this is worth the trade-off. Keep sending your comments...
I wonder if the bicycle rental folks would be interested in this? www.jlsdesignworks.com
Just watched the video.

The engineer geek in me says that is a cool looking toy, I like what you did there... but the commuter in me says no, it doesn't solve a problem that isn't better solved with drop bars. Sorry dude but the added weight, cost, and complexity makes it inferior to drop bars while not provoding any additional functionality over drop bars IMO, but good luck with it.
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Old 10-02-11 | 11:55 PM
  #90  
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Interesting idea. I like the concept, seems like after some iterations it'll be a slick product. Lot sof pinch points and 3lb will be a problem for many cyclists because of the weight weenie factor. I suppose with the amount of carbon fiber flat bar "fitness bikes" being sold there is certainly a market. Just needs to be mass produced and marketed.
Good luck! Nice to see innovation is alive and well in the US!
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Old 10-02-11 | 11:57 PM
  #91  
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CH - The design allows for more positional changes than drop bars.
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Old 10-03-11 | 06:12 AM
  #92  
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Why don't you take this to kickstarter and see if you can get some backing?
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Old 10-03-11 | 03:38 PM
  #93  
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Wow well im fairly new to biking and to this forum and i love them both and i must say that is a wonderful idea.My bike weighs a ton now so whats a few more ponds?i just don't understand this weight thing.For me a Clyde the more weight i lug around the more i hope to lose also with my neck and shoulders problem always tighting up on me it would be wonderful to have the freedom to switch positions on the fly. Any way great job if i see one around and have the extra cash i will for sure give it a try.
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Old 10-04-11 | 12:22 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by idc
I think it's very interesting but personally I'm not sure what bike I'd have it on, as I'm generally a fan of drops or bar ends - I like having my wrists at those angles and it feels more natural to me (I even do push-ups this way).
I think part of the point of this is not that you absolutely must use flat bars, but that you can keep your preferred hand position through a range of torso angles. You like your bar-ends, but you can't brake or shift from those. Switch to this and North Road or similar bars and you can reach all your controls whether you're sitting upright or low in a headwind.
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Old 10-04-11 | 06:19 PM
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bike fitter version

In addition to a retail product, if you had a version with a built-in protractor (or digital readout) for the stem angle and perhaps an adjustable length, I could see that product being attractive for bike shops.

Good luck!

Last edited by mowyang; 10-04-11 at 06:19 PM. Reason: fixed spelling error!
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Old 10-05-11 | 07:25 AM
  #96  
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If nobody mentioned it yet, you might check with the CPSC to see what they require for product certification, especially if it can be used on children's bikes. Liability and consumer protection issues often over-ride design and manufacturing issues. Good luck.

Years ago I came up with a series of bicycle trailers but never got to the manufacturing point. Manufacturing cost was one factor, ability to defend the product from competing companies was another big factor and my pockets weren't deep enough to pursue it.
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