Another poster who cannot comprehend what I wrote. Please re read my post and tell me where I said clipless pedals were useless.

What's your beef, anyway? Do you like clipless pedals/toeclips & straps/foot retention or not?

If you can't yank the pedals through a full circle at a mere 75 rpm (heck, that's even slower than my jogging pace), then you suck at spinning. Take it to the Road forum -- we all suck at spinning there.

So you're arguing the difference between straps and clipless pedals? Both systems with the feet attached right? I'm arguing attachment vs non attachment. btw, you're a rude, impatient old man aren't you?

you still didn't get it. I never said you can't yank a pedal at a mere 75rpm, or that 75rpm is fast, I said was once you exceed about 75rpm you cannot any longer pull up the pedal with any useable power and that the most you could hope for was to dead weight the pedal. Then I provided a web link for your further understanding as to what I was trying to convey. If you can't understand me, did you at least read the site from a more professional writer then I?

Well, at least you got something right!

It didn't say anything that I haven't seen in any other study. Plus, it goes into zero detail about how those forces were measured.

If I'm pulling up hard enough that I would feel a gap between my foot and the bottom of my shoe (especially with the cheaper shoes I used to have), then I'd call that a wee bit more force than just "dead weight"ing the pedal.

So, anyway... What are you *****ing about in this thread? I thought we were talking about clipless pedals & commuting -- so who pissed in your Wheaties today?

Forgive me if I gave offense. If you like clipless pedals, by all means use them. However, you can, in fact, spin with regular old platforms, even without toe clips. The advantage of clipless lies entirely in the fact that they keep your feet from coming off the pedal. The idea that one gets extra power from the upstroke has not been confirmed by any research ever done. In my own experience, clipless pedals are only an advantage in climbing, and even then the advantage isn't huge. On level ground, I can't tell the difference.

https://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse

Please keep in mind that disagreement isn't the same as a personal attack; I dislike clipless pedals, not the people who use them.

I would not quote Rivendell as a "source" since he is so hell-bent on getting everyone to ride old steel frames again.

What's wrong with steel frames?

There's nothing wrong with steel frames (I've got one, too), but his site is so full of elitist, snobbish crap that I wouldn't buy lube from the guy. He's selling an image of Old World craftsmanship, and if he even lets anything new-ish -- like, gosh, clipless pedals -- get sold under his roof, the whole image is gone.

I don't buy his little rant one bit.

I also think it's funny that on one hand, people say, "I was watching the TdF and saw racers pull out of their pedals," and on the other hand, "It's impossible to put any upward force on a pedal."

What a bunch of idiots. Like I said, go to the Road subforum. We're all idiots there.

all you guys commute on diamond frames, don't you?

...I'd hate to try to ride any distance let alone commute on my lowracer recumbent without my clipless. The connection to the pedals is an integral component of balancing and controlling the bike and coming off the pedals at my usual 25 - 30mph cruising speed would not end well at all.

from one grouch to another!

Hey, we don't need your kind here!

Bicycles aren't power limited at the cranks, either. The first order limiting factors on power and energy are heart and lungs. You can apply power only on every third pedal stroke without affecting your average significantly.

Spinning and other "techniques" are fine if they're your style, but the efficiency claims are pure BS.

That's why a cyclist who wishes to become a better cyclist needs to be doing core muscle workouts. There are plenty of web sites to show how to do this if one is not sure how. Just google "core muscle workouts or exercises" or something related to that.

On the other hand a foot losing contact with a pedal is not very efficient.

Trashing your knees does wonders for your efficiency.

I get that a lot, especially when I slow down enough to ride with groups of roadies...

... which, of course, is independent of clipless/toeclips/BMX pedal choices...

They're just mad 'cuz they can't draft off of you.

Hell, I have to put my chin on my bars to draft off of most people..

I like clipless pedals better, but not for my 2-3 mile commute. The inconvenience outweighs the better feel for that distance, so I use toe clips.

Clipless always. I have MTB shoes/pedals with SPD cleats and I keep "normal" shoes at work. I got the MTB setup for my road bike so the shoes would have good traction and be reasonably comfortable when walking. Great for commuting, errands, touring, and "destination" bike rides.

I feel much more secure on the pedals with the clipless pedals especially when standing.

Toeclips tore up many pair of shoes both on the sole and toe box. When riding without clipless / toeclips, I slipped too much on the rattrap pedals with some injuries.

It did not take long at all to get where it's second nature to clip in/out. There are plenty of stops on my commute so I get lots of practice.

Bicycling mag had an article recently on clipless pedals....they disagree with you.

Not that I disagree with you, but bicycling mag is not exactly a peer reviewed scientific publication... I mean aren't they directly funded by advertising from bike and bike equipment manufacturers...

That's not exactly the kind of magazine I would go to to find advice on how to buy a good used 10-speed for commuting purposes