mikepwagner

I am still dreaming about a new bike. I really like the idea of a ChroMoly frame, hydraulic disc brakes, and an internal hub.

I don't see anything like that available where I live, but there is an LBS that seems to do all builds - I didn't see anything in his shop off the shelf. He seems to have number of Surly's, Civia's and Salsa's in some stand of being build.

I have no idea of the cost of having someone take a frame and build a bike for you - I don't know if it's a couple of hundred more than a (hypothetical) off the shelf bike with approximately the same components, or a $1000 more.

Could anyone guess as to how much I'd be looking at for a Troll build with an Alfine 11 hub and hydraulic discs?

Steely Dan

that would be a sweet bike. when i was asking for opinions on a replacement bike for my old winter commuter that was wrecked, several people here suggested building-up a IGH/disc brake Troll. not having ever built-up a bike from the frame before, i took the path of less resistance and went for a Scott SUB 10 which is an aluminum frame hybrid with clearance for wider tires, hydraulic discs, and an alfine-8 IGH. on sale at REI for only $975, i assumed that cost would be cheaper than having a Troll built up from scratch with a similar component outfit, but i could certainly be wrong about that. now, "Scott" most certainly doesn't have anywhere close to the same name cache as "Surly" around these parts, but that's ok because i don't buy bikes to impress people, i buy them so that i can get to work.

jr59

Well I have a Trek Sawyer I built with Rholoff and discs.

I got the bike for 1100. The wheelset set me back about 2500.

No pics of it finished yet. Just this one before the IGH

mikepwagner

Virtually none of the biked listed on the web site are available at my local REI store (and can't be shipped there).

For example, I had thought of picking up a Raleigh Alley Way and later upgrading to hydraulic disc brakes, but my store can't see me a Raleigh (some kind of distributor issue).

Scott's are the same way.

When I asked about an Alley Way at the local Raleigh dealer, he told me that he didn't know anything about IGHs or Belt Drives, and he wouldn't guarantee the bike for more than minute after it left the shop.

Then he told me that almost all bike frames are built in the same factory as Fuji bikes, so I might as well buy a Fuji anyway. I am very sure that I don't want to buy a bike from the guy.

So if I can get a Troll built the way I'd like (more or less - I'd really like the belt drive) for $1200 - $1500, maybe I will do that. The LBS that I visited had a number of IGH bikes in various stages of builds (Rohloff and Alfine), so at least he would know the technology.

mconlonx

Surly will be selling a Troll complete for $1400 msrp in '12. Looks like it comes with cable disk brakes and a 3x9(?) derailleur setup. Alfine/hydraulic brakes build would quite possibly be an upgrade over the stock build, so I'd guess more like $1600-1800 for the bike you want.

Belt drive would mean a frame mod -- $200-400? -- plus belt and cogs, which are not even close to cheap compared to quality chain and cogs. $2k+ minimum for the setup you're talking about...

But talk to your local LBS who sells them -- maybe they could work out a better complete build price.

Steely Dan

bummer. The REI website said that any online bike they sell could be shipped to my local store for no cost.



i thought that a frame needs break in the rear drive-side triangle to accommodate a belt drive, and to my knowledge the Surly Troll has no such break in the frame.

osephjey

Pardon my noobishness but what's a troll? In this context anyway.

Steely Dan

Surly Troll, an extremely versatile steel mountain bike frame.

jpatkinson

Troll Frame: $495
Alfine 11: $475

Rest of bike, with your hydraulic discs (or BB7, which are fine!): another $2000, assuming you want decent wheels, tires, handlebars, seat, headset, lights, ? front generator hub, etc.

Grab the CIVIA Alfine off-the-shelf for $1800 and call it a day.

MichaelW

The Troll looks to me to be overbuilt for everyday commuting use. Do you have a frame weight?
Also note that the top tube cable guides are underneath the tube. If you need to shoulder the bike it makes for an uncomfortable carry.
In the UK, the frame of choice would be a Cotic RoadRat.
If you wanted to use a Carbon gates drive, then a new frame outfilt, Milk would be the first choice.

Both these using horizontal dropouts which work OK and are very light and simple but not a slick as sliding vertical dropouts or EEB systems.

A lot of the cost of builds is in finishing kit (bars, stem seatpost, saddle etc). If you already have these, or can use cheap or parts-bin components, the costs reduce a lot.

Im not sure what kind of bars you want to run. The Versa 11 speed is not widely available yet. I run Alfine 8 (Dahon cadenza 8) with On-One Mary bars and it is very comfortable.

fietsbob

A frameset with another way of tensioning the chain , won't make you move the disc caliper
when you re-tension the chain.

and keep a piece called a keeper with the bike to hold the autoadjust at bay ,
it will close the caliper if yo touch the lever.

Then the wheel won't go back in..

mikepwagner

If you click the "REI Store Availability" button on the REI site for Raleigh, NC (and most of the state), virtually nothing other than the house brands are available or deliverable. For example, no Raleighs, Swobo, Scott, Marins, or Cannondales - my sense is that it's go something to do with exclusive distributorships.

That can't be quite right, because I can't get a Surly at my local REI store, even though several LBS's have them.

The bike that comes the closest to what I think I would want - a Raleigh Alley Way - isn't available for 50 miles. My 1st thought was to pick up one of those, planning to eventually upgrade the brakes to hydraulic and the Alfine 8 to an an Alfine 11.

SactoDoug

I was researching shaft drive bikes a while ago. Here is one that is almost what you are looking for. It has disc brakes but they are not hydraulic and it has a 8 speed hub instead of 11.

https://www.dynamicbicycles.com/bicyc...potransit8.php

no1mad 

First, I don't have any experience with REI. Second, there is no REI in the entire State of OK*. But just looking at the website... are you selecting 'ship to store' or 'in-store pick-up'? If you really want that Alley Way, then pretend you're ordering from Bikes Direct- and if you're not happy with it, then put REI's much touted no questions asked return policy to use. Use the online store and have it shipped to your local store.

*Contacted REI about opening a store in a new massive development not more than a mile from our 'Urban Wilderness'. There are no plans, but now we're getting a Dick's...

mikepwagner

There are a limited number of REI stores that that are Raleigh dealers - including none in NC. If an REI store is not a Raleigh dealer, the bike can't even be shipped to that store.

Stores that Raleigh can be shipped to:
AK – Anchorage
CA – Brentwood
CA – Fresno
CA – Marina
CA – Rancho Cucamonga
CA – Tustin
CO – Boulder
CO – Colorado Springs
CO – Denver Flagship
GA – Buford
GA – Perimeter
IL – Lincoln Park
MA – Boston
MD – College Park
NY – Paramus
NJ – Marlton
PA – Conshohocken
PA – Pittsburgh
PA – Settlers Ridge
TN – Brentwood
TX – Dallas
VA – Bailey's Crossroads
WA – Bellingham
WA – Issaquah

Evil

FietsDontFailMe

In Canada, a national store called Mountain Equipment Co-op (locations across the country) sells a bicylce with hydraulic disc brakes and the Alfine 11 IGH for $1500 CDN. The frame is aluminum.

https://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Cyclin...cle-unisex.jsp

mikepwagner

Another Canadian bike - the Norco Ceres - looks very good to me. It's steel, with hydraulic disc brakes, a Gates Belt Drive, and a Shimano 8. If I had an LBS that sold them, I would be thinking about picking up one of them, and then upgrading to a Shimano 11 sometime later.

https://www.norco.com/bikes/urban/per...e-urban/ceres/

FietsDontFailMe

If you have some money to spend, I think the Civia Hyland (with Rohloff) is as fine a bicycle as you will see.
https://civiacycles.com/bikes/hyland/hyland_rohloff/

Leebo

Surly has a new frame called the Ogre. Do all 29er like the troll,but for for fatty 29ers. Disc , rack horz drops etc.

irclean

I own a Norco Ceres, and it's a great bike. That said, I wish it had the Alfine 11 instead of the 8, and Gates' new CenterTrack belt drive system. The only bike that I now of that comes so equipped is the Spot Acme, although its frame is aluminum. Peter White offers the Tout Terrain Metropolitan with your choice of IGH; Alfine 8, 11, or Rohloff.

mikepwagner

Yeah, if I had the money for the Tout Terrain, that might be the way that I would go. They look like very nice bikes.\

There is another one that looks very interesting, though I can't find very much about it:

https://beltbik.es/base-urban/2011/rd-20

Mike

fietsbob

Koga Miyata Signature builds offer a menu, frames and components, built in NL ,
then shipped to dealers, [but not US] around the world.
Quite like my 04 Koga WTR, have to go thru signature program to get similar

Tubus racks R'off Magura hydraulic rim brakes(or discs), and etc..
Hebie chainglider, is a good chaincase, I hear,
keeps road grit off contaminating your well lubricated chain.

FietsDontFailMe

I think the Rohloff with this new CenterTrack belt (thanks for the link) would be perfection. But I must say that the Rohloff alone is close to perfection.

modernjess

+1 - Surly is selling a Troll complete next year, and I agree on the pricing speculation above. My wife has a troll, that is spec'd not unlike the complete build for next year. mechanical disc, 2x9 sram X9 set up. It's a wonderful bike.

They are also adding "Disc Trucker" a LHT with disc brakes in complete bikes and framesets. MSPR it still TBD.

And, they have a new frame model the "Ogre" which appears to be like a cross between a Troll and a Karate monkey. a 29er with every manner of braze on for disc's, gears, rohloff hubs etc. Go to their blog for the update for 2012
https://www.surlybikes.com/blog/

wolfchild

Why hydraulic brakes ?? Speaking from personal experience, I would go with Avid BB7's. I used to have shimano hydros on one of my bikes, I didn't like how they performed in very cold temps. In fact my rear brake suffered a blown seal twice. Had it rebuild, it still leaked fluid on very cold days. Kept messing up my brake pads with fluid. Those brakes are in my parts bin now, I have changed to Avid cable disks and I am very happy. I never liked bleeding brakes it's a messy job, and brake fluid is overpriced. It's so much easier to replace a cable. Sure hydrolics are very powerful, but commuting is not a downhill race.