[MENTION=235305]RaleighSport[/MENTION], read some blog posts by Mr Money Mustache on the real costs of driving a car. They are higher than we think. He encourages us to include fixed costs (insurance, etc) into each mile and tally 50 cents per mile. He said the marginal cost of a mile is actually about 50 cents. He may be right. So if you must own a car, that's fine, but you should still drive it as little as possible. Don't drive it just because you already have it.

I'm OK with paying a lot if it is really high-speed rail (180+ mph) like in Germany/Japan.

On the weekend I use the East Coast Main Line which, unfortunately is limited to 125 mph, but at least England is small.

I'm very familiar with the real costs sadly, I do pretty much all my own mechanic work as well as insurance rate shopping etc.. I think the cost is even higher in stress on the road while driving personally, and I try to drive less then once a week if I can help it. Unfortunately depending on the job, I often have to drive a work pickup several times a week but that doesn't cost me anything and I like to drive that truck like a little old lady.
I agree with your theory about true high speed and costs, but it's not. Despite having to get retrofitted tracks etc etc etc, the top speed being 79MPH, which it often won't be doing as it crosses roads/towns/etc. The measure was passed easily as they proposed an accompanying pedestrian/cyclist path for the entire 70 mile stretch of the project. Heck I voted for it and I don't plan to ever ride the train! Now it's "tough cookies" as the path will be put in whenever, and the rail line priority is now only from the affluent south end to our counties main city as in.. it's a tourist pipeline in the making, which is fine as most of our economy here is based on tourism (wine country). But I personally would never have voted for it had I known the path would be put on the backburner.. I rather looked forward to being able to cross the entire county on dedicated non motorized infrastructure.(they do intend to finish the complete rail line/path, but it's a "whenever" thing now)

Hate to say it Americans in the "room," but sometimes socialism/nationalisation works where everyone pays the bill regardless or whether they use it or not.

The problem is, we're all paying the cost for this project: There was a sales tax hike that we voted on accompanying this to fund it. The board that runs this project is more interested in giving themselves high pay and bonuses, misspending funds and making terrible choices. I'll give you a great example, when they were looking into diesel electric locomotives there was a set that met their parameters perfectly they had already been designed for an area in the midwest (Chicago perhaps? I forget now), to the tune of several million dollars cheaper, they chose instead to have completely new ones designed and built, then later managed to get dibs on the majority of the bicycle/pedestrian safety fund for the county to secure a few more sets of locomotives/cars. The same money could have gone into extending the northern reach of the tracks to actually get service to the areas proposed, or perhaps even to put into the path fund to get it off the back burner.

That's how it goes everywhere, even in Scandinavia. It's part of the cost of doing large infrastructure projects.

Yup, but it's even more dissappointing when you personally know a member of the board who was a sincerely great guy until he got into politics...

No you don't; you obviously love to insert gratuitous digs at the U.S./trollish political BS in your posts for your own peculiar reasons.

Yes, I do. I don't like to point out inadequacies, it makes me uncomfortable. One must admit that public transport isn't so good in North America, for whatever reason: population density or large absolute geographical area.

Also, people around here use the word "political" too often, even when politics aren't involved

Not all Americans are blind to the upsides of socialism.

That is a fair statement, but probably not fit for the commuting forum. I just find that large infrastructure projects and governmental funding tend to go hand in hand.

stats:

2817km/1750mi
£544/$865 total
£0.19/km
€0.24/km
$0.49/mi
net money saved (bus fare saved minus running costs): £69 (1 month bus pass) + 8 days (£37.6) + 11 days (£51.7) = £158.30/$255.16

photos:

That's how it goes, pretty much by definition. Infrastructure is for society at large, so then who should pay for it other than society? The mechanism for that is government taxation.

Not always. It could be built as a toll-based system.

This bridge is totally user-financed with no other funding streams.

Øresund Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Currently it is 335 DKK / 400 SEK / 46 EUR / 58.2 USD per car to cross.

For a lorry/truck, it's 250 USD or so

stats:

2836km/1762mi
£544/$865 total
£0.19/km
€0.24/km
$0.49/mi
net money saved (bus fare saved minus running costs): £69 (1 month bus pass) + 8 days (£37.6) + 11 days (£51.7) + 1 day (£4.7) = £163/$261.65

photos:

I guess the high tolls are an attempt to expose all external costs. Good for them. I'm surprised anyone accepts it, though.

Why ... before it was helicopter or ferry. I went to an interview at a Swedish pharma by chopper

From wiki: "The connection will be entirely user-financed."

I'm not surprised at all that the Danes/Swedes, they understand quality of life and that connection is sweet. A super-nice bridge onto a man-made island that forms one end of a tunnel ... that's how you do it right!

edit: $6B in 2000 terms.

stats:

2871km/1783mi
£544/$865 total
£0.18/km
€0.23/km
$0.49/mi
net money saved (bus fare saved minus running costs): £69 (1 month bus pass) + 8 days (£37.6) + 11 days (£51.7) + 2 days (£9.4) = £167.7/$268.85

photos:

If you live in Sweden and are traveling to Denmark, you just bring back a couple cases of beer to offset the cost. :-) Or you go all the way to Germany and pack your car full of beer.

What you have to realize is that most people here don't drive cars. I take the train to work, usually riding my bike to the station and taking advantage of a cheap and new bike share on the other end of the commute, but sometimes using the bus on either or both ends, and I pay 1,200 SEK ($165) for thirty days of the transit pass that will take me everywhere in the southernmost province of Sweden, Skåne. I could have gotten away with a slightly cheaper pass, but two trips each month to Malmö or Helsingborg was quickly rivaling the cost of the increased-fee transit pass. But the transit system is effective and often full. I get the idea that what I pay is close to the actual cost of the thing.

More realistically, though, some people are living in Sweden for the relatively low cost of living and work in Denmark, where everything except beer is more expensive. The exchange rate is pointing in that direction right now, such that even if you drive a car and cross the bridge every day, it might still be a large economic advantage. The cost of delicious, delicious beer is an anomaly.

The economic difference between CPH and Malmö is huge when the 200% tax on cars in Denmark is considered. In addition, the Danish salaries are quite high compared to Sweden.

Living in Malmö or Lund while working in CPH becomes viable.

stats:

2901km/1802mi
£544/$865 total
£0.18/km
€0.23/km
$0.48/mi
net money saved (bus fare saved minus running costs): £69 (1 month bus pass) + 8 days (£37.6) + 11 days (£51.7) + 3 days (£14.1) = £172.4/$277.86

photos:

short week this week as I'm off to Allgäu for a few weddings/parties and some cycling on the trusty CUBE MTB:






also, someone just sent me this (gotta love Danish design):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-seat?ref=card

stats:

2925km/1817mi
£544/$865 total
£0.18/km
€0.23/km
$0.47/mi
net money saved (bus fare saved minus running costs): £69 (1 month bus pass) + 8 days (£37.6) + 11 days (£51.7) + 4 days (£18.8) = £177.1/$285.84

photos:

stats:

2944km/1829mi
£544/$865 total
£0.18/km
€0.23/km
$0.47/mi
net money saved (bus fare saved minus running costs): £69 (1 month bus pass) + 8 days (£37.6) + 11 days (£51.7) + 5 days (£23.5) = £181.8/$290.68

photos:

stats:

2963km/1841mi
£544/$865 total
£0.18/km
€0.23/km
$0.46/mi
net money saved (bus fare saved minus running costs): £69 (1 month bus pass) + 8 days (£37.6) + 11 days (£51.7) + 6 days (£28.2) = £186.50/$297.96

photos: