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Contador

Old 07-01-11, 06:08 PM
  #26  
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If I'm against anybody, it's the cycling powers that give Contador a pass and are still hounding Armstrong. As the article indicated, the doping test failure could have been adjudicated months ago as it would have been if Armstrong had failed a test. Even when when exonerated, Armstrong was hounded. The blatant double standard sucks.

I'll be rooting for Schleck and the Radio Shack guys. Contrador failed a test and if he wins and it's latter taken away from him, the then winner never gets the benefits of a true winner. It casts a cloud over the whole race.

Bruyneel will favor his stronger rider as the race develops. That was the plan with Contador. As for the car thing, stupid actions are not always part of a plot. Sometimes they are just stupid.

Al
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Old 07-01-11, 06:26 PM
  #27  
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So here we go round on this again.

I just went back to YouTube to re-watch he video of the eventful Chain Drop and a couple of things seem to be going on.

AS is attacking and is about 30-40 ft., maybe more up the road from a group containing AC. Vinoukorov is bridging. AC is accelerating and has a huge amount of momentum as he passes AS. Just prior to being passed by Vino, AS suffers a mis-shift and dropped chain. AC is accelerating past him and isn't really looking back as AC bridges to Vino, who has also passed AS. AS stops to fix chain. The leaders ALL go by him. Nobody slows.

It's an attack, started by Schleck. As the following riders respond, Andy drops his chain. In pretty much all the other major races I've watched, when a leader gets a mechanical and there's a group with that leader, the group responds by waiting. When it's an attack, there's usually no group, thus nobody to share the info of a leaders problems. That seems to be the case here, where it's doubtful that AC knew initially knew that AS had a mechanical, as AC is sprinting up the road, followed by Vino and a bunch of others and does AC even know that AS is out ?. Is anyone in the groups yelling "Hey Wait ?" and there's no Tyler to tell Jan "hey Lance fell, lets wait". Probably at some point, AC knows, but should he wait ?. Good question and the consensus has never been clear. At what point does he stop ?. It's an attack remember, started by Schleck and responded to by Contador, so in some cases, all bets are off and sorry Andy.

Point 2 is that in all the other races where I've seen Schleck race, it's apparent he cannot accelerate up a hill like Contador. pretty much nobody in the peloton today can. Would Andy have won that stage ?, doubtful. So it's kind of a moot issue.

As to AC himself ?. Seems like a cold fish, but the guy speaks zip English so there's few interviews where we get to really get a feel for what kind of guy he is. Andy likes him, and I like Andy, so that's a plus. Lance doesn't like Alberto and I don't really like Lance, who speaks english, so that too is a plus for Alberto. Did he dope ?. Probably. Is he now ?. Probably not, as I like to think there's really a HUGE amount on the line right now, with AC starting a reign that could surpass both Armstrong and Merkx and that's a major career that you don't want to screw up.

SB
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Old 07-01-11, 06:46 PM
  #28  
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This is all getting tired.

I don't particularly care for Contador, no more than I did for Armstrong. However, both were (and AC's case are) great stage-racing cyclists, dope/no dope, whatever. H_ll, Marco Pantani was, is, and will always be one of my favourites.

Re. 'chaingate' ... non-issue. Andy 'Whine Whine' Schleck launched an attack, then made a basic error. He is prone to these; happened again this year in a time trial, and he's using Shimano.

The analogies to 'Armstrong waiting for Ulrich ... ' blah blah one often hears are false; the incidents in question did not involve basic 'operator error'. Schleck is still banging on about last year; given events in earlier stages in last year's Tour, a bit hypocritical, to say the least. Tough. He might win, he might not ... I could care less.

As for me, I'll cheer on Cuddles; he'll fail, again, but I don't care
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Old 07-01-11, 08:35 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by alcanoe View Post
If I'm against anybody, it's the cycling powers that give Contador a pass and are still hounding Armstrong.
Al, you need to go back and check your facts, because the "cycling powers" chose not to pursue Armstrong when he tested positive, but are pursuing Contador. It isn't the cycling governance bodies that are pursuing Lance now, but U.S. law enforcement.
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Old 07-01-11, 08:37 PM
  #30  
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Or in Bob Roll's words....the Tour daay France. Agree that AC will win.
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Old 07-01-11, 09:29 PM
  #31  
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Hi,

Just one comment. I am too lazy to find the exact quote but Andy said that he didn't lose the 2010 TdF because of the dropped chain. He said he lost it because of his poor performance in the Prologue.
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Old 07-02-11, 05:37 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
Al, you need to go back and check your facts, because the "cycling powers" chose not to pursue Armstrong when he tested positive, but are pursuing Contador. It isn't the cycling governance bodies that are pursuing Lance now, but U.S. law enforcement.
The French lab took invalid data (even the Canadian experts objected) and accused Armstrong of doping. He had to sue (once again) at great personal expense to show that it was political persecution. That's one example of the many trumped up charges against a person who has not only never tested positive, but has been tested more than any other athlete (read witch hunt).

Other such examples I believe are recorded in Armstrong's war. A non hero-worship awesome book on stage racing which provides a clear picture of Armstrong's and Bruyneel's warts/quirks. Only humans after all.

Can you imagine the outrage if the US had interceded to get Armstrong off the hook as Spain did to bail out Contador. Instead, our government has gone Euro and piled on Armstrong.

The issue here is blatant hypocrisy of cycling offialdom and the cycling media.

Concerning Contador winning, he's got the extra burden of having competed in the Giro. Supposedly that's not done now-a-days due to the recovery time. Schleck hasn't looked all that great so far.

I have no opinion who will win or even who should/should not win. I just hope the wife doesn't throw some thing at the plasma tv.

Al
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Old 07-02-11, 06:25 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by alcanoe View Post
The French lab took invalid data (even the Canadian experts objected) and accused Armstrong of doping. He had to sue (once again) at great personal expense to show that it was political persecution. That's one example of the many trumped up charges against a person who has not only never tested positive, but has been tested more than any other athlete (read witch hunt).

Other such examples I believe are recorded in Armstrong's war. A non hero-worship awesome book on stage racing which provides a clear picture of Armstrong's and Bruyneel's warts/quirks. Only humans after all.

Can you imagine the outrage if the US had interceded to get Armstrong off the hook as Spain did to bail out Contador. Instead, our government has gone Euro and piled on Armstrong.

The issue here is blatant hypocrisy of cycling offialdom and the cycling media.

Concerning Contador winning, he's got the extra burden of having competed in the Giro. Supposedly that's not done now-a-days due to the recovery time. Schleck hasn't looked all that great so far.

I have no opinion who will win or even who should/should not win. I just hope the wife doesn't throw some thing at the plasma tv.

Al
The only reason the US let Armstrong twist in the wind, is that the US doesn't particularly care about cycling, if Lance played football, he could go out and commit murder and get off. Cycling is a big deal in Spain, so the Spanish interceded. One of the interesting questions though is how much does doping help in cycling? When one takes performance enhancing drugs, they are taking two huge risks, the first is of getting caught, the second is, the health issues caused by it. It's use is rampant in major league baseball, and look at all the guys there dying of heart attacks before they turn 30. There is also another disadvantage and that is increased muscle mass, which adds weight, a decided disadvantage in cycling, when your sponsor pays $10,000 for a bicycle that is .5kg lighter, finding out the rider is doping and is 2kg heavier, would not be helpful.
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Old 07-02-11, 07:58 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Wogster View Post
The only reason the US let Armstrong twist in the wind, is that the US doesn't particularly care about cycling, if Lance played football, he could go out and commit murder and get off. Cycling is a big deal in Spain, so the Spanish interceded. One of the interesting questions though is how much does doping help in cycling? When one takes performance enhancing drugs, they are taking two huge risks, the first is of getting caught, the second is, the health issues caused by it. It's use is rampant in major league baseball, and look at all the guys there dying of heart attacks before they turn 30. There is also another disadvantage and that is increased muscle mass, which adds weight, a decided disadvantage in cycling, when your sponsor pays $10,000 for a bicycle that is .5kg lighter, finding out the rider is doping and is 2kg heavier, would not be helpful.
Drugs are so evil that California has about legalized some while the DOJ sits on it's hands. The DOJ thinks it's ok for Black Panthers to stand out in front of poling places carrying weapons. I'm sick of the DOJ.

The world cycling "court" has found Armstrong innocent on countless occuasions and sometimes they were forced to do so by lawsuit. How many times does a person have to prove himself innocent? Ever hear of double jepordy?

I know of no country interceeding in a drug case for an athlete except for Spain. If it occurs it's rare. The US should NOT have interceeded for Armstrong.

You reach too far. You arguement lacks credibility.

Al
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Old 07-02-11, 08:29 AM
  #35  
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Is it possible to add a thread to an ignore list the way you can with a user?
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Old 07-02-11, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
Is it possible to add a thread to an ignore list the way you can with a user?
The proper place for this thread is in Pro Racing.
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Old 07-02-11, 08:56 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
Is it possible to add a thread to an ignore list the way you can with a user?
You don't have free will?

Al
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Old 07-02-11, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by alcanoe View Post
You don't have free will?

Al
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Old 07-02-11, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by alcanoe View Post
You don't have free will?

Al
Absolutely. I'm not suggesting anyone not discuss anything or that a thread be moved anywhere. But sometimes I would like to exercise my free will by choosing not to be tempted into certain discussions.
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Old 07-02-11, 09:43 AM
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Does anyone know if there's somewhere online you can watch the Tour for free? Or a chat to follow along.
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Old 07-02-11, 09:46 AM
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NBC TV in 2 hours
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Old 07-02-11, 10:32 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
The proper place for this thread is in Pro Racing.
I wish you mods wouldn't do that to this forum. There is at least some maturity and respect here so people can read and discuss without juvenile insults that inevitably occur.
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Old 07-02-11, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jdon View Post
I wish you mods wouldn't do that to this forum. There is at least some maturity and respect here so people can read and discuss without juvenile insults that inevitably occur.
Did you ever go in a grocery store to pick up some milk, bread and eggs and find all them in the laundry detergent section?
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Old 07-02-11, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
Did you ever go in a grocery store to pick up some milk, bread and eggs and find all them in the laundry detergent section?
No, but when I feel like a good discussion, I don't go hang out at the local grade schools either.
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Old 07-02-11, 10:56 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
Did you ever go in a grocery store to pick up some milk, bread and eggs and find all them in the laundry detergent section?
Sorry, 10 Wheels, it's a poor metaphor. What we're talking about here is more like the difference between going to a grocery store (50+ forum) where you can get a bit of everything, vs. a shop that sells hot sauces (Road forum or Pro Racing forum) where you'll get burned most times you go.
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Old 07-02-11, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by NOS88 View Post
Sorry, 10 Wheels, it's a poor metaphor. What we're talking about here is more like the difference between going to a grocery store (50+ forum) where you can get a bit of everything, vs. a shop that sells hot sauces (Road forum or Pro Racing forum) where you'll get burned most times you go.
So when one becomes 50 plus their balls dry up?
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Old 07-02-11, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jdon View Post
I wish you mods wouldn't do that to this forum. There is at least some maturity and respect here so people can read and discuss without juvenile insults that inevitably occur.
+10. It's always fascinated me that people blather endlessly about trivia on this forum, yet when they see a topic they don't agree with they intercede with these snippy comments.

There is no requirement or compelling reason why one has to read much less comment on every subject. No subject matter or discussion should bother folks as they don't have read them. And, if they can't contribute something, then don't go for the attention anyhow by trying to deminish some one. Wait for something of interest to shine.

Remember the recent thread on weight loss. Too much forum time is a killer.

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Old 07-02-11, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
So when one becomes 50 plus their balls dry up?
Or is it like the old guys in small town playing checkers under a shade tree.
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Old 07-02-11, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
So when one becomes 50 plus their balls dry up?
Can't speak for others. But, no. I just have more common sense than to thrust my chest out as if I'm the baddest son-of-a-***** on the planet. A great many folks don't live long enough to rightfully participate in the 50+ forum - some through no fault of their own. Others well, because they were too stupid to live. BTW, I love hot sauce, (read my tag line). I just choose when and were I want it. I have no need to let my "balls" hanging out for others to see, or to use that type of testosterone driven metaphor to make a point. I know who I am and have a fairly accurate sense of my skills, abilities, passions, and motivations. When I feel the desire to participate in a non-articulate, name calling, let's see how demeaning we can be, chest-thumping discussion, I visit other places. When I want reason, maturity, civil difference of opinion, humor, and intelligence, I come here.
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Old 07-02-11, 11:16 AM
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