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Clipless shoes/pedals with foot alignment

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Clipless shoes/pedals with foot alignment

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Old 08-10-13, 12:39 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ThatBritBloke View Post
People are still confusing alignment and float ...

Alignment : cleats are adjustable fore and aft, laterally and radially. Further adjustment can be effected with cleat wedges and spacers.

A competent bike fitter will measure and optimise all those planes to set the most comfortable/efficient attitude for your foot/knees/hips.

Once this position is set float is the angular displacement by which the cleat must be rotated/twisted before disengagement. The cleat will naturally locate your foot on the mid-position - set by the alignment - when pedalling normally. If you're pedalling with your foot constantly straying into the float zone then your cleat alignment is wrong.

The degree of float does not necessarily contribute to the degree of comfort/security you may experience.

Alignment is everything. A bike fit should start from those fixed points.
OK Thanks.

If I ever go to clipless I'd better get fitted at a better LBS before investing.
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Old 08-10-13, 01:02 PM
  #27  
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Another option might be "pedal extenders" It's a thread-in spacer that fits between your pedal and the crankarm. Hostel Shoppe has them in sizes from 20mm to 30mm.
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Old 08-10-13, 01:12 PM
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Yeah I already use an extender myself, on the right side with caged quill pedals. Saves my shoe heel from rubbing a hole in the side among other things.


With clipless you still need to have the cleats adjusted right.
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Old 08-10-13, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
So...the pedals themselves are fixed when they are manufactured. I understand float describe a few posts back but alignment eludes me. Fore/aft..fine lateral/radial? Question can the cleats be adjusted so that when clipped into place the shoe can point some number of degrees clockwise or anticlockwise when looking down at them? Thus the float would be judged from that 'clipped' position.

Thanks, Rich
Yes.
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Old 08-10-13, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Another option might be "pedal extenders" It's a thread-in spacer that fits between your pedal and the crankarm. Hostel Shoppe has them in sizes from 20mm to 30mm.
That's what Kneesavers are. I get them from S.C.O.R.
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Old 08-10-13, 06:22 PM
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Well I took the advice I found here and went to a place which sells Specialized shoes. The rep there went through in exhausting detail all the options. He took out a pedal, clip and shoe to showed exactly how it works. I tried the Bontrager and they didn't have sufficient room in the toe box. Specialized did the trick, fit like a glove. Because of the large difference in length of my two feet I needed a 45.5 and that had to come only in their highest model. I bought the Spec Comp Men's MTB and the Shimano PD 324. I set the tension to loosest and will work on the alignment and practice getting out on my trainer. I'll tighten them as my experience grows and circumstances change.

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Old 08-10-13, 06:29 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
Well I took the advice I found here and went to a place which sells Specialized shoes. The rep there went through in exhausting detail all the options. He took out a pedal, clip and shoe to showed exactly how it works. I tried the Bontrager and they didn't have sufficient room in the toe box. Specialized did the trick, fit like a glove. Because of the large difference in length of my two feet I needed a 45.5 and that had to come only in their highest model. I bought the Special Competition Men's MTB and the Shimano PD6430. I like the idea of being able to pop on the MTB side of the pedal at road crossings and get back on the trail to clip in. Now for setting the attachment point and tension. I set it to the loosest setting and will gradually tighten them as my experience and practice warrants. Thanks for all the help everyone!

Rich
GREAT!!

One other thing to keep in mind. Feet swell when they get warm, and folks often tie/cinch/whatever their BIKE shoes too tight resulting in pain. A number of folks have had shoe pain ended by loosening their shoe a bit.
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Old 08-10-13, 07:12 PM
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My purchase.


Thanks everyone for your help.
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Old 08-11-13, 04:14 AM
  #34  
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.
Here is what the guy who fitted my slotted caged-quill pedal cleats used on me 30 years ago:

The New England Cycling Academy Fit Kit, with its R.A.D. (Rotational Adjustment Device)

He had me bring my bike in and checked out my fit on that first of all. Then he had me spin on it (I don't remember the setup. It was 30 years ago). He had some attachments on my feet with rods that came out the side. When your cleat fit your toe out the rods would rotate straight instead of arcing. It took several adjustments to get my right side correct. I had to look straight ahead as if I were riding on the road so I didn't even get to see any of this while I was pedaling.

It worked exactly right in fitting those cleats. I'm not saying that's the only way to do it but it sure saved me from a lot of trial and error.

I had to laugh at Sheldon Brown's version of toe out. I could show him what toe out really is.
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Old 08-11-13, 05:33 AM
  #35  
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Rich, you have the same shoes I got, but I got the M 530 pedals. I did find, even at the loosest setting, the standard cleats, SH55, gave me difficulty in clipping out. I changed the cleats to the multi-release cleats, SH56, and they are much easier to clip out(I had to make the clip tension higher with those cleats.).
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Old 08-11-13, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Zinger View Post
Yeah I already use an extender myself, on the right side with caged quill pedals. Saves my shoe heel from rubbing a hole in the side among other things.


With clipless you still need to have the cleats adjusted right.
Using extenders increases the Q-Factor of the bicycle. In other words, widens your stance on the pedals. Riders requiring minimal adjustment, ie a couple of millimeters or so - and millimeters do count - can use pedal-washers. Increasing your Q-factor reduces cornering clearance while pedalling, although this isn't normally a major issue unless you regularly race street crits and stuff like that.

Conversely, some riders require a reduced Q-factor. This isn't so easy and if it is a consideration then you will have to look at the specifications of new bikes very carefully, since it's usually impractical, if not impossible to address with any given bicycle, although you might lose a couple of millimeters by using a different chainset.

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Old 08-11-13, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bikey Mikey View Post
Rich, you have the same shoes I got, but I got the M 530 pedals. I did find, even at the loosest setting, the standard cleats, SH55, gave me difficulty in clipping out. I changed the cleats to the multi-release cleats, SH56, and they are much easier to clip out(I had to make the clip tension higher with those cleats.).
Good information. I'll check these out if I have problems. With a trainer I'll have a controlled envronment to work on a quick release. Thanks.

Rich
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Old 08-11-13, 05:51 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
Good information. I'll check these out if I have problems. With a trainer I'll have a controlled envronment to work on a quick release. Thanks.

Rich
Good you are using a trainer. I practiced on the trainer for a couple of days clipping in and out for about 30 minutes each day of my 90 minute time on the trainer. Using a trainer to practice I feel is a much better option than clipping in and out with one foot on the ground or leaning on a tree, building, or whatever--trainer being far safer and realistic than the other methods.
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Old 08-11-13, 05:56 AM
  #39  
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Excellent choice in shoes and pedals Rich, I hope they suit you well and make you comfortable enough to ride to your heart's content.

Bill
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Old 08-11-13, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by volosong View Post
Thank you for correcting me, Bill. I didn't know they sold a 4 float cleat. Learned something new today. Sorry to others if I mislead you.
Certainly not to correct you at all, the cleats are very new, my LBS guy showed them to me a few weeks ago when I stopped in and got my replacement 6 cleats. I hadn't heard about them either. I like the 6 models and the SPD-SL 105, PD-5700, pedals a lot, I had the PD 540 line and when they wore out I moved up a level. I use the slackest setting for the tension, no pull out problems at all. I cannot rationalize the 4 cleat myself, the difference between a 6 and a 4 is very slight, I am not sensitive enough in my feet to feel that one.
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Old 08-11-13, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ThatBritBloke View Post
Using extenders increases the Q-Factor of the bicycle. In other words, widens your stance on the pedals. Riders requiring minimal adjustment, ie a couple of millimeters or so - and millimeters do count - can use pedal-washers. Increasing your Q-factor reduces cornering clearance while pedalling, although this isn't normally a major issue unless you regularly race street crits and stuff like that.

Conversely, some riders require a reduced Q-factor. This isn't so easy and if it is a consideration then you will have to look at the specifications of new bikes very carefully, since it's usually impractical, if not impossible to address with any given bicycle, although you might lose a couple of millimeters by using a different chainset.
Yeah even with my radical case I held off on the extender until I realized I needed it with my current non-clipless shoes. For me it's a necessity, on my right side only, but not everybody would need it. I do watch those right hand turns alright. My street-crit days are over anyway.
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Old 08-11-13, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bikey Mikey View Post
Rich, you have the same shoes I got, but I got the M 530 pedals. I did find, even at the loosest setting, the standard cleats, SH55, gave me difficulty in clipping out. I changed the cleats to the multi-release cleats, SH56, and they are much easier to clip out(I had to make the clip tension higher with those cleats.).
I checked and the cleats are indeed SH56.
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Old 08-15-13, 11:23 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Zinger View Post
Yeah I already use an extender myself, on the right side with caged quill pedals. Saves my shoe heel from rubbing a hole in the side among other things.


With clipless you still need to have the cleats adjusted right.
Those are exactly the kind I got. I used the right one and went 22 miles on the W&OD trail today with it installed, didn't fee a thing. My right foot found its natural position. Fell over again at a stop, darned left foot clip! (It's me not the clip) I'll learn someday.
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Old 08-15-13, 11:49 AM
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SCOR 'Knee savers' push the Q width out to allow duck foot angles , (like those, above)

but since you screw the pedal into them, then screw the whole thing into the crank arm,

pedals that only mount with an allen wrench in the end, wont work.. only, those that use a 15mm open end pedal wrench.
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Old 08-15-13, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
Those are exactly the kind I got. I used the right one and went 22 miles on the W&OD trail today with it installed, didn't fee a thing. My right foot found its natural position. Fell over again at a stop, darned left foot clip! (It's me not the clip) I'll learn someday.
Lol

The first time I wore toestraps and clips was in my 20s. I pulled up behind a car at a stop sign with 2 teenage girls in the back seat looking at me. I was feeling pretty cool until forgetting to loosen my toestrap.....Needless to say the girls were highly impressed.
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Old 08-15-13, 04:48 PM
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Two years ago I fit a guy to shoes and pedals with the same issue as the OP. With pedal extender and Speedplay road pedals I was able to accommodate the extreme toe out position of his left foot. He used the full outward sweep of the Speedplay cleat. About 10 years ago I had to accommodate not only extreme toe out position, but also a 15mm leg length difference!

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Old 08-15-13, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Two years ago I fit a guy to shoes and pedals with the same issue as the OP. With pedal extender and Speedplay road pedals I was able to accommodate the extreme toe out position of his left foot. He used the full outward sweep of the Speedplay cleat. About 10 years ago I had to accommodate not only extreme toe out position, but also a 15mm leg length difference!
Eventually I'll probably wind up trying the Speedplay Frogs on my old Trek when I build another bike this winter. My 15-17 deg. out right foot would take it to the max if it worked at all.
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Old 08-15-13, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
Those are exactly the kind I got. I used the right one and went 22 miles on the W&OD trail today with it installed, didn't fee a thing. My right foot found its natural position. Fell over again at a stop, darned left foot clip! (It's me not the clip) I'll learn someday.
Rich, sorry about the stop spill, but glad the extenders are working for you. Ride on!
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Old 08-16-13, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich Gibson View Post
Those are exactly the kind I got. I used the right one and went 22 miles on the W&OD trail today with it installed, didn't fee a thing. My right foot found its natural position. Fell over again at a stop, darned left foot clip! (It's me not the clip) I'll learn someday.
I fell a few times at the beginning. The first time I bruised my ribs quite a bit as the ribs landed on my elbow(elbow was fine). I went with the multi-release, SH56, cleats after a few spills to make it easier to get out of the clips. Glad you are okay and the extenders are working for you.
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Old 12-14-14, 05:38 PM
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I also have an extreme degree of toe-out. There's a few things I'd like to add to this thread.

Speedplay have 15 degrees of float, and the cleat cannot be rotated on the shoe. This allows for 7.5 degrees of float right, and 7.5 degrees of float to the left - period. This is not even close to enough for my right foot's roughly 16 degrees of toe-out.

I also use a kneesaver pedal extender on the right side. I also twist my Shimano cleat to the maximum, and use the new Shimano shoes with the long 3-hole cleat slots to get even more rotation out of the shoe. This plus the 6 degrees of float on the yellow cleats allow me to get to the 16 degrees I need.
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