Yes, and those people would be much better served by tubeless tires.

Dude ... chill a little. This is not combat.

I understand what you have posted. I read all your posts. I am NOT OPPOSED to Any tire, wheel, frame, bike style .... I don't even care if you ride, why should I care?

You asked a question and I answered it.

By the way, I was a car-free urban/suburban commuter for way too many years and I can assure you that sometimes some folks go fast in the city, even on a loaded touring bike or commuter. But at no time did I say Not going fast was a bad thing, nor did I say you could not go fast on Marathons.

What I said was that high-performance tires tend to have higher performance---grip, suppleness and thus low rolling resistance---than tires designed for longevity, not high-speed performance. That is sort of a "1+1=2" level of logic there.

I never said tires designed to last longer or be more puncture-resistant were bad. I didn't say Anything was bad. I just pointed out Exactly what you asked, which was why some people said what they said about Marathons.

Potholes? Broken pavement? debris? Seen it all. When I started riding bike lanes basically didn't exist in most places. Throwing things at cyclists was considered good sport. Running a cyclist off the road was considered fitting ... he should have been on the sidewalk anyway, right?

I am not competing with you, but honestly I don't think there is a lot you could tell me about urban/suburban commuting which I have not lived through.

I don't see why you should get defensive if some folks don't like your tires. I don't see why you should even care if some folks don't like your tires.

Furthermore, this is the Internet,. and no matter what you say, ten people will tell you ten different reasons why you are more wrong than Flat-Earthers ... and some of them will probably be Flat-Earthers, It's a crazy world.

Just ride your bike.

By the way, if you find you need all the tread on those Schwalbes, great. If you find you don't a friend highly recommends Schwalbe Big Ben+ tires. Not sure they come in your size. He says they roll fast and offer good traction because of the contact patch, on any surface which is hard enough not to let knobs penetrate. (I'd have said something sooner but he just spoke up recently.)

Marathon Plus rolls amazingly well?
Dude, this claim is the cherry on top of the delicious sundae that has been your posting the last couple weeks. You are a bike shop's dream customer.

As the OP stated so too have I bough a second set of wheels and tires for the trails. However instead of Marathons for the road, I've gone 32mm Pirelli Cinturatos tubeless (60psi) which are know to be a reliable puncture resistant tire with a road bias. They will handle smooth gravel and light off roading no problem. I have them in different sizes across the fleet and I like them a lot. For the trails, 40mm Pirelli gravel M also tubeless (30psi) which may have been over the top in hindsight. I went for robust over speed and can't say I regret the way it deals with rough trails. The cassette is the same on each wheel to minimise any issues with changing wheels. Even with a minor rear brake adjustment with the wheel swap its been a good strategy.

In terms of speed there is no way to say I suspect. Trails tend to have highly variable surfaces and depending on how loose or rocky the trail is survival may dictate the speed at which one progresses compared to how "fast" a tire might be. Weight I believe is a factor since pushing a heavier tire all day is likely to require more effort than a lighter tire. Reviewers who allegedly know about such things have said the Pirelli gravel H is ridiculously fast wherever it is they ride. Its possible the rougher trails where I ride would destroy it and I prefer to keep the air in the tire if possible. I value air staying in the tire and I've not had a flat for a long time, I'll go with the more robust tire every time. My wife has Marathon tires on her bike and they are fine on smooth trails.

I don't believe there is an answer to the question because everyone's experience differs. This is just mine for what its worth.

I’ll find out once I install the tubeless set.

so far I’m convinced most drastic speed gains will come from switching from crappy flat bar bikes to a good carbon bike with quality gearing.

I took it out on some of the roadie haunts and was keeping pace most of the hardcore groups that used to blow past me.

I wonder why MikeDeason won’t answer my question? It would help us all understand his claims about the Marathon Plus tires.

Read the post above yours. It clearly states the best metric I currently have.

In other words, you are insisting that your tires are very fast, even though you haven’t tried many (or perhaps any?) other tires.

This is why you’re not being taken seriously.

All I can say is I believe the biggest performance gains will come from upgrading from box store flat bars to a carbon drop bar with good components.

I can already hang close with many of the hardcore roadie’s who used to blow past me. If the tires make that much of a difference I’m going to be a cycling giant in my city.

Flat-bar vs drop-bar makes no difference. Aero sure does and it is easier and more comfortable to stay aero on drop bars ..... a lighter bike makes very little difference unless you are climbing 10-percent hills all day.

Lighter wheel s and tires make much less difference than aero wheels and tires ..... unless you are climbing ten-percent grades all say.

Rolling resistance makes some difference, but like most "marginal gains" categories .... a few watts from aero socks, a few watts form faster tires, a few watts from matching the width to rim width ..... but for most less-than-all-out riders, none of that stuff makes a huge difference numerically.

The biggest factor is how you feel and how the bike feels to you. If the bike feels lights and fun and fast .... you will have more enthusiasm and likely ride a little faster, put out a little more energy, because you are happier and feel more energetic. The actual numerical gains, the quantifiable gains, might be tiny and almost certainly will not be huge ..... people who think they will be faster on their new bikes ignore the fact that 90+ percent of performance is the engine.

I have done back-to-back switches between bikes with ten-pound weight differences over an identical route .... and as a rule after a few minutes I don't feel the added or reduced weight, because I am only responding to the immediate responses of the bike I am riding ... and there is not a regular, dependable performance gain with on bike over the other, probably because if I am having a bad to day today even while riding a lighter bike, I will not be able to keep up with me of tomorrow when I am on a heavier bike but having an awesome day.

I track pretty much every ride on a spreadsheet and have GPS traces so I can see how fast I was going at any point of the ride .... maybe if I rode a lot of ten-percent hills ... but on my normal routes, the bike I choose is a lot less a deciding factor of how fast I go than my attitude.

Also .... unless you are a major stockholder int he company ... who cares whether a certain tires is deemed better or worse by others? Each tire has its best use scenario, and since their needs are different from yours, obviously other tires would be better fro them.

One thing of wh8ich I am reminded all too frequently while posting here .... some folks will fight over nothing and drag you right down. (Sometimes it will be me.) Just let it go.

At the end of the day, you have a bike you really like and you can ride it.

Oh, agreed. But how do you feel about people posting strong (general) opinions without any experience?

Not sure about all that. It’s much easier to get the bike rolling and keep it rolling fast with same tires as my previous flat bars.

I try not to let petty stuff wind me up.

Not suggesting this as a course for anyone else's life ......

You description of how you view a select group of cyclists is sure to make for entertaining threads in the coming months.
Good job in setting up a 'me vs them' conflict, now that your insane bike purchase process is nearing a close. You definitely need a new general theme and that one is sure to provide plenty of back and forth discussion on here.

How is it me v them ? Nothing derogatory. I respect their passion for cycling.

just saying on my flat bar aluminum and steel bikes with cheap components they would blast past. We have a few cycling dedicated paths. On the new bike I can find my happy gear and keep pace with most. That’s my current metric.

interested to see what tubeless wheel set will add

Well you have referenced 'hard-core roadies' as a group multiple times now, in a me v them format.
So...that's how it's me v them.


Some faster rolling tires and you will soon be king of the paths.
Move over hardcore roadies, your king is on your left!

Hardcore roadie's [sic] don't ride on paths.

Sure. Don’t know the lingo. Only place to go if you want speed and you live in or near the city is the smooth paved dedicated paths plus a large park road closed to cars. Just the timing of your ride that matters. Don’t go on a sunny weekend

In my area they do. Not all the time, and not for fast group rides, but in my area, some of the bike paths are excellent for getting long miles uninterrupted with traffic lights or stop signs.

Yeah, I should've qualified that as: hardcore roadies generally don't ride fast on paths. Not safe with the other users on those paths.

5am

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I can totally see the 2x pita for a tandem with a drum, and I wholeheartedly concur that a slight decrease in perceived comfort for an increase in flat defense is worth it. I've sworn off of the wire-bead tires after a Marathon Plus bead de-laminated and caused a puncture when the end of the wire worked out of the carcass and embedded itself in the side of the tube. I prefer folding tires and tube sealant now.😁
That said, this is only my daily commuter. I have a different bike sans-tubes for fast stuff, and another bike with Armadillo Elites for touring stuff, a couple more for other stuff, a tandem to stay close to the Wiffle, and all of her bikes to practice my maintenance on.😁