I bought my bike from the LBS. When buying I specifically made sure they can provide a low-rider front rack for it. Sure, no problem. After 500kms or so I took the bike back for the free tune-up. While I was there I asked about the rack. Sure, no problem, they could order it for tomorrow. OK, I said, go ahead and order.

The next day I went to get my bike back. Surprise, err... there's a problem. The rack would take a couple of days to arrive. OK, I said, I will pick it up on my commute later. Which I did. Turned out the rack would not fit in the bike. I took rack and bike back, they went, sure, no problem, they'll fix it in no time - tomorrow, actually. Not OK, I said, I need it done today. After 30 mins of "fixing it" there still was a problem, the rack would not fit.

They ordered another rack which took a week to deliver, then they almost managed to install it, with just a few parts left over which were handed over to me in a plastic back. I said sure, no problem, and walked out of the door (haven't been back since). Right across the street there's a small no-name workshop with an extremely competent mechanic-owner. It took him all 10 minutes to re-assemble the rack. He is my FBS now.

--J

MSRP: Minimum? Thanks for the laugh. I won't retype everything that I dug into last night while the server was being moved, but I'll leave it at this: On further checking, I find that they have exceeded all "minimum" expectations on each item that I bought from them. I've been overcharged (compared the the "minimum" manufacturer's suggested price) by about $200.

Maybe it's Maximum Suggested....

...or Median Suggested.....

When it comes to major brands of bikes, MSRP seems to mean "Mandatory Suggested Retail Price".

OK...OK...I goofed on that one...pardon my sloppiness...one of the benefits of this forum is that there's a lot of sharp eyes scrutinizing posts...thanks for pointing this out!

When I find one, I'll let you know. So far I've been to Bicycle Odyssey, Mike's Bikes (Sausalito and San Rafael stores), REI and Performance. The latter two I went to for price, the Mike's Bikes branches are close to work and home respectively and I was told that Bicycle Odyssey was *the* place to go for people who know what they're doing. Which ones have you tried?

Paul

the old adage goes: if you are a business and you do something great, the customer will tell a couple of people...but if you screw up (real or perceived) the customer tells everyone they meet.

There aren't very many bike shops around here, but luckily one of them is really good.

My family has brought in several different bikes to have puncture-proofed (apparently they use a thicker tube and liner, and slime), and I bought my bike from them. They have a 60 day tune-up after I buy the bike, which seems pretty good, and after that it might only be $10 or so.

It is Manufacturer's NOT minimum. And for any scrupulous business, MSRP would be the Maximum price to charge. Anything over MSRP is a ripoff.

Tonight's LBS experience:

I went in with a low-end Blackburn floor pump I'd bought at the "Super Sale" for about $18 a couple weeks ago. It was pushing air out of where the barrel meets the base at about 90 PSI. They didn't have any more packaged, and only one "on the floor", so we tried it. The presta head gasket was shot. So we put the head from my pump onto the store's pump. It pumped a tire up to about 105-110, and started blowing air out the same way. Poor sales guy even broke off a presta stem on a floor bike in the process.

Anyway, he went into the nether regions of the store, to try to create a better seal on the barrel. Meanwhile, I poked around at the shoes (I'm in the market for a pair of road shoes). A few minutes later he emerges, and what does he lay in the snot-stained glove on my hand but a full-packaged brand new $35 Park Tool PFP-3 pump! "Sorry, we couldn't fix it, just take this one," he says. Thing is, Roger, the owner, owns another store a coupla miles away. I offered to cruise over there and pick up some $20-ish pump instead, but he insisted I take the Park pump. Dang, that is customer service!

'Course, Roger doesn't encourage that kind of service just because he's a nice guy (which he is, BTW). He knows it pays off. Yeah, I'd burned 20 minutes of prime road-riding daylight dealing with that pump, but I still got 30-ish miles in. On the way home (actually, going a coupla miles out of my way), I stopped in at his other store to do some more shoe shopping. There's a pair of Sidis going on sale next week I'm seriously thinking about now.

There is one bike shop mechanic that I've dealt with in my area that has my confidence. So, whenever I need something a little bit "off-the-wall" that isn't carried by one of the internet shops, I order from him. But, just lately I had my rear STI shifter fail (after about 8,500 miles). I called my LBS first to see if he had just the rear shifter-brake lever assembly available. He didn't. Then I checked his price for new 105's, $300.00. They were $160.00 online. I told him that the price diff was just too much to ignore. He understood. I went by his shop a few days later and did pick up some odds and ends and ordered a chainring that wasn't available from the online stores. We all pretty much try to do what seesm right, I'm sure. You give the LBS the business you can, without it tearing holes in your wallet.

I have been to the majority of LBS's in the Reno/Sparks area. While taking my kid to the local skate park, I asked one of the older (19?) bmx guys there about his bike. Said he bought it at Mother Lode bikes in Sparks, and that they were highly recommended. I took it with a grain of salt. I commenced my search, found some decent bike shops, a couple of crappy ones, and just in general wasn't too impressed. Then I checked out Mother Lode.

WOW. Great service. I bought a Blackburn frame pump there, on their recommendation and like it alot. I am wanting to rebuild my bike, and went in there last weekend to get pricing and get lots of questions answered. I was there for about 40 minutes, looking around and asking questions. At one point, one of the guys sat down with me at the parts counter and was really cool, just chatting and answering questions and helping me figure things out.

They've got my vote. The only time I will *ever* order online is if ML can't get the part or something like that. Or if the price difference is just too great, and they won't budge.

One of my next purchases is a MTB clipless setup, and a decent helmet, and bike shorts. I'll be shopping there, not online.

I've had two bad dealings and one very good dealing with LBS's in three states. The first was in California. I purchased a Raleigh road bike. Since it was only 5 miles home I elected to ride it. In 5 miles miles virtually every fastener had come loose on the bike, even the BB. I went through the whole thing with a fine tooth comb. After that no more problems. A few months later I bought another bike (a BMX for dirt trails). This time I hauled the bike home since I had moved. Guess what? Everything was loose! A week later I had the bearings in the pedals fail (cone was pitted, and this was without any hard riding). "Sorry, have to buy new pedals, failure not under warranty". Luckily they had some old pedals I was able to rob a cone from. Unfortunately he was the only Raleigh dealer in the area. The second bad experience was in Washington State when I bought my Trek 1000 road bike. The assembly was fair but there were still things loose after a short shakedown cruise. I had the bike about two weeks and one of the cones on the front hub developed a pit. Guess what? "Not under warranty since you could have hit a pot hole and damaged it, buy a new hub, or a new cone if we have one". Yeah, right!
I must say my last bike purchase went very well at an Ohio dealer. I bought a recumbent. The dealer assisted with the setup (the dealers of my previous two bikes didn't lift a finger or try to assist). At 100 miles I brought the recumbent back for the 100 mile checkup, which was free. All of the fasteners, and adjustments were good but he did some fine tweaking all the same. There were a couple of marginally tight bolts on the chainrings and he retensioned the spokes but no real show stoppers. As I left he said "see you at 1000 miles!" Yes, I did pay MSRP for the bike, but not a penny more. He has readily answered all of my questions via e-mail or phone calls. It is a real pleasure doing business with someone like that. I would recommend him in a heart beat.

'bent Brian

You've hit the key here. Reading my previous posts this thread, it seems like I've gone from one extreme to the other, so I will try to clarify that a bit. The guys at my LBS are fantastic. The crew is young, but they seem to be very knowlegable and are very friendly. I'm not a novice when it comes to maintenance, as the family raced BMX for a while and I maintained all the bikes, but the bikes we have now are slightly different beasts. I would not hesitate to have them do any work that was beyond my scope, and I would trust them to do it right. If I walk in, they address me by name and they ask how the riding is going, if there are any problems with the bikes, etc. It just sticks in my crawl that I paid over retail for not only the bikes, but helmets, pump, etc. and I will shop around before I buy the next bike, to replace the -mart bike my son has. Price isn't eveything, but it is something. I certainly don't want them to go away, but finding the same bikes at another small independant shop 5 miles away for $40 less really hurt.

I was in a LBS the other day, the first time I had been there. Looking at the tool racks and peg boards, I thought to myself that this store doesn't sell much in the way of tools.

The counter guy asked if he could help me. I told him i needed a spoke wrench.
He opened a cabinet to get a wrench, and inside this cabinet was just about every tool in the Park catalog. He just didn't have the stuff on display. Very strange, but then again nothing in a LBS says quality better than park tools.

Tom

I belive in sharing the wealth; that is supporting LBS and getting great deals on the various on line bicycle shops. If your LBS is not to your liking try another and another even if it is a little bit out of your way. LBS can be helpfull in offering advise or if you are trying to fix something on your bike and you get "stuck" LBS will help you out. I like to "tip" LBS for their advise or help a coulpe of dollars. It also builds a sense of community. Personally I would like to in the future to open up my own bicycle shop so I like to visit many of them and there is a wide range of attitude, service, ect...