A decade of dopers.........
10-11-12, 08:10 AM
#26
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You mean I had to reluctantly endure over a decade of Phligget-n-Sherwin's incessant Lance-stroking for nothing? Gawdammit. 
10-11-12, 08:13 AM
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10-11-12, 08:20 AM
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Baseball is not an apt comparison. For years, baseball did not ban performance enhancing drugs. When guys like McGwire and Bonds were juicing, baseball had not specifically outlawed it. So, it is kind of hard to punish them when they technically weren't breaking the rules. Even now, baseball has the most lax regulations and restrictions on PEDs of all sports.
Cycling, on the other hand, had banned PEDs and tried to fight them.
Cycling, on the other hand, had banned PEDs and tried to fight them.
10-11-12, 08:31 AM
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10-11-12, 08:32 AM
#30
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Good thing I never bought a USPS or Discovery jersey as well as owning a Trek.
But I did spend a few bucks buying those yellow rubber bracelets....
I actually feel bad for his kids and his family (other than his ex-wife since she is an accomplice in this as well.) They have a bright light shining on them for a long time.
But I did spend a few bucks buying those yellow rubber bracelets....
I actually feel bad for his kids and his family (other than his ex-wife since she is an accomplice in this as well.) They have a bright light shining on them for a long time.
10-11-12, 08:42 AM
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moved here from road
10-11-12, 08:45 AM
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Lance is being villified because...well, because he's pretty darn villainous.
10-11-12, 09:24 AM
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10-11-12, 09:41 AM
#34
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You guys are STILL missing part of the point. It's not that he doped, it's the level that he did it, the coercion, bullying, intimidation, threats ...... he seemed to be in a class of his own there. So even today you guys are apologists with "well, they all doped ..." blah blah .... gimme a break .....
No, they all didn't dope and some did it basically to keep their jobs so not the same thing. Also, even among those who did dope intentionally and willingly they didn't all have access to the same level of product or procedures. It was not a level playing field.
10-11-12, 09:51 AM
#35
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Lance like Tiger has never taken a step in life without calculus. It is what makes them tick and also in large measure what made them successful and also fall out of grace. But there is damage and there is damage control. Lance calculates everything...including his damage control. His calculus is and will continue to be...admit nothing...and fly under the radar of suspicion that everybody cheated..this is his buffer. There will be no relelation that the truth will set him free. His calculation is the truth will create more ruin to his fame then keeping quiet and letting the hand wringers and second guessers do just that. Now...if there becomes an avalanche of disdain for Lance because of Tyler's book for the 'average' joe...then he may change his course. Until then he will let uncertainty cover up any suspicion that the guy was the anti Christ.
Also...point taken to those that say his biggest sin is his intimidation and being bigger than the sport. This speaks to a character flaw...lol...and house of cards as nobody is bigger than any sport. I believe part of his problem is...he threatened to burying those that weren't reaping the same fame Lance was. So his threats turned out to have no sting because the guys he threatened didn't have as much to lose. Lance all told is probably slightly 'cracked'. This madness not only made him dominate but also go to extraordinary means to throw 'anybody' under the bus to promote his personal fame....probably a great guy if you went along with his agenda but if not, hell hath no fury like the unib@!!er
Also...point taken to those that say his biggest sin is his intimidation and being bigger than the sport. This speaks to a character flaw...lol...and house of cards as nobody is bigger than any sport. I believe part of his problem is...he threatened to burying those that weren't reaping the same fame Lance was. So his threats turned out to have no sting because the guys he threatened didn't have as much to lose. Lance all told is probably slightly 'cracked'. This madness not only made him dominate but also go to extraordinary means to throw 'anybody' under the bus to promote his personal fame....probably a great guy if you went along with his agenda but if not, hell hath no fury like the unib@!!er
10-11-12, 09:52 AM
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Sure they can. Bob Hayes (in the anchor leg of a relay) and Jimmy Hines both broke the 10 second barrier in the 1960s, when PEDs weren't on anyone's radar in the US.
10-11-12, 09:56 AM
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Probably, but I've seen it both ways and assume it's a reference to a name because I've often seen the female equivalent described with "Jill" or "jill". That, and I'm too lazy to change it.
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10-11-12, 10:00 AM
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Bear in mind that cortico-steroid has legitimate medical uses, and after Armstrong tested positive for it in the 1999 TdF, he produced a very convenient prescription for it to treat his "saddle sores". Many have felt since day 1 that it was back-dated.
10-11-12, 10:04 AM
#39
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Boggles the mind that some people here still haven't read Tyler Hamilton's book. Go to the book store, read the first 30 pages. If that doesn't make you want to buy it (it's only $13 for kindle / ipad), then I don't know why you even bother posting on this topic.
Further (free) reading: go on USADA's website and download the affidavits of Hincapie, Andreau, Hamilton, Landis, Vandevelde, and Leipheimer.
Yes, Lance doped in a field of dopers.
He also:
1. Had the best doping doctor, Michele Ferrari. Ferrari worked with other riders as well, and even told Lance what he was giving to them. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari was giving all the other riders weaker drugs and diluted blood bags. It's undeniable that Ferrari clearly favored Lance. Other riders who worked with lesser doctors like Fuentes eventually got popped (Hamilton, Operation Puerto riders, etc)
2. Intimidated teammates and former teammates. He forced his own domestiques to dope heavier or quit. He even tipped off the UCI when Hamilton was getting too fast.
3. Worked with the UCI to cover up his own doping positives, first for Cortisone in '99 and then EPO in '01.
4. Publicly ostracized anyone who spoke out against him, and completely smeared those who revealed more than a few small details.
5. Used politics and media to sway every decision in his favor. Befriended UCI officials, TV commentators like Phil Liggett, and G. W. Bush.
Further (free) reading: go on USADA's website and download the affidavits of Hincapie, Andreau, Hamilton, Landis, Vandevelde, and Leipheimer.
Yes, Lance doped in a field of dopers.
He also:
1. Had the best doping doctor, Michele Ferrari. Ferrari worked with other riders as well, and even told Lance what he was giving to them. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari was giving all the other riders weaker drugs and diluted blood bags. It's undeniable that Ferrari clearly favored Lance. Other riders who worked with lesser doctors like Fuentes eventually got popped (Hamilton, Operation Puerto riders, etc)
2. Intimidated teammates and former teammates. He forced his own domestiques to dope heavier or quit. He even tipped off the UCI when Hamilton was getting too fast.
3. Worked with the UCI to cover up his own doping positives, first for Cortisone in '99 and then EPO in '01.
4. Publicly ostracized anyone who spoke out against him, and completely smeared those who revealed more than a few small details.
5. Used politics and media to sway every decision in his favor. Befriended UCI officials, TV commentators like Phil Liggett, and G. W. Bush.
10-11-12, 10:10 AM
#41
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Boggles the mind that some people here still haven't read Tyler Hamilton's book. Go to the book store, read the first 30 pages. If that doesn't make you want to buy it (it's only $13 for kindle / ipad), then I don't know why you even bother posting on this topic.
Further (free) reading: go on USADA's website and download the affidavits of Hincapie, Andreau, Hamilton, Landis, Vandevelde, and Leipheimer.
Yes, Lance doped in a field of dopers.
He also:
1. Had the best doping doctor, Michele Ferrari. Ferrari worked with other riders as well, and even told Lance what he was giving to them. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari was giving all the other riders weaker drugs and diluted blood bags. It's undeniable that Ferrari clearly favored Lance. Other riders who worked with lesser doctors like Fuentes eventually got popped (Hamilton, Operation Puerto riders, etc)
2. Intimidated teammates and former teammates. He forced his own domestiques to dope heavier or quit. He even tipped off the UCI when Hamilton was getting too fast.
3. Worked with the UCI to cover up his own doping positives, first for Cortisone in '99 and then EPO in '01.
4. Publicly ostracized anyone who spoke out against him, and completely smeared those who revealed more than a few small details.
5. Used politics and media to sway every decision in his favor. Befriended UCI officials, TV commentators like Phil Liggett, and G. W. Bush.
Further (free) reading: go on USADA's website and download the affidavits of Hincapie, Andreau, Hamilton, Landis, Vandevelde, and Leipheimer.
Yes, Lance doped in a field of dopers.
He also:
1. Had the best doping doctor, Michele Ferrari. Ferrari worked with other riders as well, and even told Lance what he was giving to them. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari was giving all the other riders weaker drugs and diluted blood bags. It's undeniable that Ferrari clearly favored Lance. Other riders who worked with lesser doctors like Fuentes eventually got popped (Hamilton, Operation Puerto riders, etc)
2. Intimidated teammates and former teammates. He forced his own domestiques to dope heavier or quit. He even tipped off the UCI when Hamilton was getting too fast.
3. Worked with the UCI to cover up his own doping positives, first for Cortisone in '99 and then EPO in '01.
4. Publicly ostracized anyone who spoke out against him, and completely smeared those who revealed more than a few small details.
5. Used politics and media to sway every decision in his favor. Befriended UCI officials, TV commentators like Phil Liggett, and G. W. Bush.
10-11-12, 10:17 AM
#42
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[QUOTE=Homebrew01;14829423]
QUOTE]
Wrong! Nobody's missing part of anything. What I did was answer 1 of 2 questions in the first post of this thread...which simply asked, if it's cheating if they all do it, along with asserting that it is now safe to say that he and many of his contemporaries doped. Though, more reprehensible (but still not the crime of the century) for Lance to do it in the fashion that he is alleged to have done all of this, "the level that he did it" was not mentioned nor alluded to in the original post.
Furthermore, putting in perspective with the myriad other dopers of his era is not synonymous with apologizing for Lance.
You guys are STILL missing part of the point. It's not that he doped, it's the level that he did it, the coercion, bullying, intimidation, threats ...... he seemed to be in a class of his own there. So even today you guys are apologists with "well, they all doped ..." blah blah .... gimme a break .....[/
Wrong! Nobody's missing part of anything. What I did was answer 1 of 2 questions in the first post of this thread...which simply asked, if it's cheating if they all do it, along with asserting that it is now safe to say that he and many of his contemporaries doped. Though, more reprehensible (but still not the crime of the century) for Lance to do it in the fashion that he is alleged to have done all of this, "the level that he did it" was not mentioned nor alluded to in the original post.
Furthermore, putting in perspective with the myriad other dopers of his era is not synonymous with apologizing for Lance.
10-11-12, 11:13 AM
#43
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10-11-12, 11:20 AM
#44
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Second "jack" is not a reference to a name, that is the entire point of the joke. Anyway doesn't matter.
10-11-12, 11:48 AM
#45
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10-11-12, 12:25 PM
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Apparently the part about punctuation was lost on you. It is a demonstration of how lack of proper punctuation (the lack of commas) can change the meaning of a sentence. Jack is supposed to be capitalized in both, but the writer forgot the commas in the second sentence and his intended meaning was lost.
10-11-12, 01:51 PM
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I thought it was pretty well known that Lance Armstrong didnt like George Bush.
Last edited by CbadRider; 10-11-12 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Removed political content.
10-11-12, 02:18 PM
#50
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Apparently the part about punctuation was lost on you. It is a demonstration of how lack of proper punctuation (the lack of commas) can change the meaning of a sentence. Jack is supposed to be capitalized in both, but the writer forgot the commas in the second sentence and his intended meaning was lost.