Effect of Losing 20 lbs
#1
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Effect of Losing 20 lbs
In another forum someone posted the image below, which purports to illustrate the impact of a 220-lb rider losing 20 lbs. I've never seen anything like this, though it agrees with my experience/intuition, sort of, and I was wondering on what basis it could be justified. Playing around with some numbers on BikeCalculator-- changing the grade, etc.-- yields a similarly-shaped curve, but I can't explain why. Maybe it is because the last time I took a physics course was nearly 30 years ago, but I figured some of you savvy people would be able to give a cogent explanation.
#5
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No doubt dropping 20lb would be a boon for climbing speed, though. Oh, the dream...
#6
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From: Houston, TX
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Zipster, the best info I have for you is that you can post a larger picture by double clicking the image and adjusting the size in the menu that opens. Sometimes the adjustment malfunctions and you have to do it by editing the post after it is first posted. That is how I do it.
#7
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From: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Bicycle riding consists of riding against two major sources of resistance, wind drag and gravity. There's also tire, chain and bearing drag, but those are very minor in the scheme of things.
On level ground, weight is only a factor when accelerating, so the bulk of your work is against wind drag, which is proportional to the square of your speed.
However on hills, you're working against gravity and the bulk of your effort is simply lifting yourself to higher altitude (why climbing stairs is so much harder than walking on level ground). But most people don't ride as fast when climbing, so wind drag is diminished and becomes less of a factor, and on steeper hills almost negligible. That leaves only gravity which (obviously) is proportional to your weight.
So you get a curve, where being lighter produces only a minor improvement on level ground, and a major improvement climbing.
BTW- with improvements in aero the curve is pretty much reversed, with the most benefit at the higher speeds on level ground (or downhill), and greatly diminished at the lower climbing speeds.
On level ground, weight is only a factor when accelerating, so the bulk of your work is against wind drag, which is proportional to the square of your speed.
However on hills, you're working against gravity and the bulk of your effort is simply lifting yourself to higher altitude (why climbing stairs is so much harder than walking on level ground). But most people don't ride as fast when climbing, so wind drag is diminished and becomes less of a factor, and on steeper hills almost negligible. That leaves only gravity which (obviously) is proportional to your weight.
So you get a curve, where being lighter produces only a minor improvement on level ground, and a major improvement climbing.
BTW- with improvements in aero the curve is pretty much reversed, with the most benefit at the higher speeds on level ground (or downhill), and greatly diminished at the lower climbing speeds.
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Last edited by FBinNY; 08-26-15 at 06:11 AM.
#8
Bicycle riding consists of riding against two major sources of resistance, wind drag and gravity. There's also tire, chain and bearing drag, but those are very minor in the scheme of things.
On level ground, weight is only a factor when accelerating, so the bulk of drag comes from wind which is proportional to the square of your speed.
However on hills, you're working against gravity and the bulk of your effort is simply lifting yourself to higher altitude (why climbing stairs is so much harder than walking on level ground). But most people don't ride as fast when climbing, so wind drag is diminished and becomes less of a factor, and on steeper hills almost negligible.
So you get a curve, where being lighter produces only a minor improvement on level ground, and a major improvement climbing.
BTW- with improvements in aero the curve is pretty much reversed, with the most benefit at the higher speeds on level ground (or downhill), and greatly diminished at the lower climbing speeds.
On level ground, weight is only a factor when accelerating, so the bulk of drag comes from wind which is proportional to the square of your speed.
However on hills, you're working against gravity and the bulk of your effort is simply lifting yourself to higher altitude (why climbing stairs is so much harder than walking on level ground). But most people don't ride as fast when climbing, so wind drag is diminished and becomes less of a factor, and on steeper hills almost negligible.
So you get a curve, where being lighter produces only a minor improvement on level ground, and a major improvement climbing.
BTW- with improvements in aero the curve is pretty much reversed, with the most benefit at the higher speeds on level ground (or downhill), and greatly diminished at the lower climbing speeds.
Losing 10% of your BW requires 10% less force to lift it. What's so hard to understand about that?
#9
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From: North Orange County, in Southern California
Bikes: 1987 Trek 560 Pro, 1983 SR Semi Pro, 2010 Motobecane Le Champion Titanium, 2011 Trek Fuel EX8
Bicycle riding consists of riding against two major sources of resistance, wind drag and gravity. There's also tire, chain and bearing drag, but those are very minor in the scheme of things.
On level ground, weight is only a factor when accelerating, so the bulk of drag comes from wind which is proportional to the square of your speed.
However on hills, you're working against gravity and the bulk of your effort is simply lifting yourself to higher altitude (why climbing stairs is so much harder than walking on level ground). But most people don't ride as fast when climbing, so wind drag is diminished and becomes less of a factor, and on steeper hills almost negligible.
So you get a curve, where being lighter produces only a minor improvement on level ground, and a major improvement climbing.
BTW- with improvements in aero the curve is pretty much reversed, with the most benefit at the higher speeds on level ground (or downhill), and greatly diminished at the lower climbing speeds.
On level ground, weight is only a factor when accelerating, so the bulk of drag comes from wind which is proportional to the square of your speed.
However on hills, you're working against gravity and the bulk of your effort is simply lifting yourself to higher altitude (why climbing stairs is so much harder than walking on level ground). But most people don't ride as fast when climbing, so wind drag is diminished and becomes less of a factor, and on steeper hills almost negligible.
So you get a curve, where being lighter produces only a minor improvement on level ground, and a major improvement climbing.
BTW- with improvements in aero the curve is pretty much reversed, with the most benefit at the higher speeds on level ground (or downhill), and greatly diminished at the lower climbing speeds.
Originally Posted by Velo News
Still, according to Chris Yu, a Stanford Aeronautics Ph.D. who heads up aerodynamics and racing research and development for Specialized, integration is here to stay. [...] "The magnitude of benefit that legitimate aero designs offer is massive, more so than most people expect."
#11
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#12
I lost 20-ish lbs last spring, and I did notice a difference in climbing. I noticed it for a few months, then I got weaker to compensate.
Same effect as when I lighten my bike.
But all kidding aside, it has made a pretty noticeable difference, though I don't have any way to measure that difference, other than Strava metrics.
Same effect as when I lighten my bike.But all kidding aside, it has made a pretty noticeable difference, though I don't have any way to measure that difference, other than Strava metrics.
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#13
The asymptote at 10% comes from:
10% weight loss ==> 10% climbing improvement.
And, as others have mentioned, less benefit on the level, giving the nice curve.
This implies that fitness is the same. No increase in strength/fitness from exercise, or loss of it from loss of muscle.
10% weight loss ==> 10% climbing improvement.
And, as others have mentioned, less benefit on the level, giving the nice curve.
This implies that fitness is the same. No increase in strength/fitness from exercise, or loss of it from loss of muscle.
#14
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#17
There is another effect that is hard to capture.
During a steady sate effort, say a 10 mile long hill climb, then the speed may be close to the 10% deficit for a hard climb. Still, the heavier person is working for 10% longer.
However, many hills are much shorter, and can be conquered with anaerobic power.
So, say one can ride at a steady state of 100 watts.
Then hits the hill...
Say one budgets anaerobic energy of 150 additional watts (250 total) for 30 seconds, or 4500 watt seconds.
The light person gets to the top and starts cruising back down the other side while the heavy person is still climbing the hill, and either burns out at the 30 second point, or powers down allowing them to extend their energy budget.
So, my guess is they in fact, may ride slower than otherwise predicted.
During a steady sate effort, say a 10 mile long hill climb, then the speed may be close to the 10% deficit for a hard climb. Still, the heavier person is working for 10% longer.
However, many hills are much shorter, and can be conquered with anaerobic power.
So, say one can ride at a steady state of 100 watts.
Then hits the hill...
Say one budgets anaerobic energy of 150 additional watts (250 total) for 30 seconds, or 4500 watt seconds.
The light person gets to the top and starts cruising back down the other side while the heavy person is still climbing the hill, and either burns out at the 30 second point, or powers down allowing them to extend their energy budget.
So, my guess is they in fact, may ride slower than otherwise predicted.
#18
#19
What the graph fails to consider is the physiological effect of having 20 lbs less fat (especially if riding in warm weather). So while it may not have much effect on how much power you need at the rear wheel to maintain a certain speed in the flats, the efficiency by which your body can produce that power may be increased. The effect will be an increased anaerobic threshold and consequently a greater reduction in fatigue than the 1% power difference might suggest.
#20
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From: northern michigan
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I've lost 25lbs this summer, down from 195. Huge difference on hills but also maintaining higher speeds on less than hilly rides (we dont have flat ground here). Nearly every course I ride has been faster. Significant difference for me.
#21
I usually don't notice 10 or 20 pounds of "cargo", but certainly can notice 30-50 pounds or more, especially on steep hills.
#22
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From: northern michigan
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I can feel the difference with every 5lb loss.
#24
What the graph fails to consider is the physiological effect of having 20 lbs less fat (especially if riding in warm weather). So while it may not have much effect on how much power you need at the rear wheel to maintain a certain speed in the flats, the efficiency by which your body can produce that power may be increased. The effect will be an increased anaerobic threshold and consequently a greater reduction in fatigue than the 1% power difference might suggest.
In a lot of other sports (think running) there's a lot of variation from one person to the next in what you're talking about, how efficient they are at turning stored energy (like fat) into mechanical work. But on a bike, we're all seated for most of the time, turning our feet in circles with our legs extended to about the same length as each other, etc. You might ride in the drops while someone else is on the hoods but it's pretty constrained and we all have pretty similar energy efficiency because of it. When you convert kJ from your power meter into kCals, you guess at how efficient you are at this, and there just isn't a very big range.
#25
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From: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
You guys are over thinking it to death. There are tons of variables, so graphs like this are based on averages with other variables held constant. This isn't a precise statement of any change, just an approximation of the net effects.
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Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.









