Heathpack 

Not unless you're riding a one hour test. If you're riding a 20 min test (best for a newbie), you should ride as hard as you think you can maintain for 20 min. The 95% conversion after the fact is going to account for the fact that you rode all-out for 20 min instead of a hour.

Its the same kind of extrapolation that I do for TTs. I have some idea of my FTP- ie what I can do for an hour. Therefore I'm going to pace a 20k TT at 103-105-maybe 107% FTP because it's only 30 min.

Trsnrtr

Wow, you really explain this stuff well. I think I'm becoming a fan in the fanatic sense, not an air fan.

Like I've pointed out earlier, my road FTP is higher at a lower HR. Actually, the HR is roughly the same but perceived by my brain as less or at least more comfortable and sustainable on the road.

Mumonkan

i was just going on what i read on friels page somewhere about LTHR, truthfully ive never done any actual testing, but i would love to see how accurate my "tests" have been. my "testing" thusfar consists of going ape**** on my SS mtb and seeing how my HR goes. the numbers ive gotten from there (204) seem to be pretty accurate

since ive set my zones based on that and kept that % on my garmin where i wanted it on the 2 races ive done, ive been able to go harder than i would have just going out there and listening to my legs. on the longer rides ive been doing im not getting wiped or even close to bonking anymore either. the former could have something to do with my overall fitness and dialing in my nutritional needs on the bike, but i feel like its helping, whether or not it actually has. and thats good enough for me

#placeboeffect

Heathpack 

I do read about this stuff some, and usually it makes more sense to me than it maybe does to other people because I use a lot of this physiology stuff in my everyday life as a veterinarian.

Coach and I actually don't talk about it too much, but I we do touch on aspects from time to time. He is very very smart and pays very close attention to every little detail plus he does all this training stuff himself as well. So I long-ago took the approach that I was just going to let him run the show and watch what he does. Over time, I'm getting a clue more and more.

Funny thing is that sometimes I'm doing some workout on the bike and I'll have some kind of physiology epiphany. Like one time, I'm knee deep in the second of two very difficult TT intervals way above threshold. I get a sudden hit of lactic acid in my legs and then 15 seconds later, my resp rate goes up.

Immediately I recognize that I have a metabolic acidosis and am attempting a respiratory compensation- basically the pH of my blood is low enough that my body is responding by trying to eliminate carbon dioxide (which functions as an acid in the body) by increasing my rate of breathing. Full-on understanding that I'm not breathing hard because I'm lacking oxygen, its because I'm trying to get rid of CO2. And I also know that is not a sustainable situation, most of the body's physiologic processes are very soon going to become deranged, anything run by an enzyme (which is almost everything) is very susceptible to pH.

So it logically follows the only choice is to back off, trying to power through this physiologic scenario will just lead to failure. But I also know that I don't have to stop, I just need to back off enough to infuse some oxygen into the system, because you need a little oxygen to metabolize the hydrogen ions which is what you need to do to normalize the pH.

Anyway, more than any of you ever wanted to know, but its just odd how these things pop into my hypoxic brain and I just "get" what's going on without thinking about it. It helps tremendously with understanding the training. Plus makes it very interesting for sure.

Heathpack 

There's a lot of wiggle room in power output even after you max out your HR. What I mean by this is that (in a TT at least), I can be at LTHR but my power can vary quite a bit. I'll try to post a pic to illustrate what I'm talking about. BRB.

LAJ

3x15's tonight, 5 minutes rest in between. I was a little uptight about them, as I'm aiming for ~20 watts over "ftp". Once I realized the Daytona qualifiers were on tonight, and the on bike timing is right for these, my trepidation is nearly erased. Different strokes.

Heathpack 

Here's what I'm talking about, I think this image is from the first TT I ever did. Speed is the blue trace, power is the purple and HR is red.



You can see that HR pretty quickly gets maxed out and it just stays there. But power is changing a lot (too much, this is a total newby effort, you want much much more steady power than that).

Not that I'm saying you're doing it wrong- results matter and you are getting results, right? And if all you have to look at is HR, that's what you should learn to ride by.

The only point of this post is just for you to see the differences between what is happening with power (since you don't have power) vs what is happening with HR. Once you get to a certain point, HR just doesn't change any more. But power still can be changing a lot.

Mumonkan

i know exactly what you mean, and i know power and hr doesnt not necessarily equate the same level of effort

like you said, if hr is what i got, ill learn to use it to my advantage

Doug28450

Hmmmmm...

Someone needs to go to the "Suggestion?" thread and recommend a Bikes Direct Motobecane.

Trsnrtr

HR can be variable from ride to ride which can make it somewhat iffy when training but its a great way to understand your body and its fitness vs. fatigue on any given day.

For example, I often ride with a group of retired racers (really old guys) and we are generally running close or just below our LTHR most of the ride. If my body is going through a period of fatigue, I can tell fairly quickly by my HR that A. it's exceeding its normal values and B. that it's not dropping quickly enough at stop signs, back of the pack or in lulls. Thus, I know it's time to back off for a few days.

Likewise, when you're rested and feeling great, your heart can work at its threshold all day and you'll feel like doing more.

if HR is all you got, it's better than guessing.

Trsnrtr

Somebody will suggest it sooner or later. Never fails.

rjones28 

You're someone...

#justdoit

Doug28450

I used to think that.

Mumonkan

haha yes, commute in (fueled with espresso) = HR jacked, commute out (tired) = hr low

same "whatever" effort

Dan333SP

Which thread? I'd be happy to sing the praises of BD. I am on their payroll, after all.

Doug28450

Assistance?

Dan333SP

To be safe, I'll post the same recommendation in all threads asking for advice.

Damn. That's the problem with BD... I start out joking, and then I realize I'd totally buy a few of those bikes. That Altamira with 7970 for $1800 is a steal. I wonder how vertically compliant it is?

3alarmer

.
...I'm sold on Bikes Direct. Those are the only bikes I'll look at on Craigslist now.

Dan333SP

Can you start a thread with some options for us to tell you not to buy?

Bah Humbug

I have been on the receiving end of that tri geek vs roadie power curve difference more times than I care to remember...

LesterOfPuppets

Of the BD brands, the Moto stickers do look the best!

LesterOfPuppets

Got out for some Caldo de Res yesterday. Ochoa's serves it up with quarter avocado!

LesterOfPuppets

I bet you hate it when you do a search for Motobecane and get some 1970s piece of crap in the results!

Trsnrtr

I performed my quarterly car wash today. I keep my bikes pretty clean but the car is on its own most of the time. Just not a car worshiper. Then again, I drive a mini-van.

Trsnrtr

@rpenmanparker

New Ion Göttlich avatar.