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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Rollers?

Old 01-02-17, 06:27 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this thread.

I've orderd the SportCrafters OverDrive Pro roller set today. $349 with two day shipping from Backcountry.

Will probably pick up the cadence drum at some point in the future.

Thanks again all.
Doorway.
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Old 01-02-17, 07:08 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
"performance" in rollers is a tough one. Lager diameter drums have less resistance than the smaller drums. The resistance comes from the deformation of the tire and the friction of rpm (smaller turns more).
The radius of a roller is also a First Class Lever. As such the larger the diameter the easier it will spin.

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Old 01-02-17, 09:25 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
Doorway.
My sense of balance isn't what it used to be and I have had some episodes of vertigo in the past requiring medical treatment.

The information you provided in your post was extremely helpful and instrumental in my choice. You were doing really well up until the laughing and had earned my utmost respect up until then.

When I'm tempted to think I'm better than someone I try to remind myself that I really don't know what they are going through at this particular moment in their lives. As they say, there go I but for the grace of God, or if you prefer, dumb luck. Take your pick.


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Old 01-02-17, 09:37 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
My sense of balance isn't what it used to be and I have had some episodes of vertigo in the past requiring medical treatment.

The information you provided in your post was extremely helpful and instrumental in my choice. You were doing really well up until the laughing and had earned my utmost respect up until then.

When I'm tempted to think I'm better than someone I try to remind myself that I really don't know what they are going through at this particular moment in their lives. As they say, there go I but for the grace of God, or if you prefer, dumb luck. Take your pick.


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-Tim-
You're inference is way off the mark. I don't know how you jumped from an emoji smiley to me having something akin to ESP regarding your vertigo and being critical of you because of it.

That's a stretch.
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Old 01-03-17, 11:37 AM
  #80  
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Very disappointed with the quality of the SportCrafters product.

The bearings on one of the drums are not pressed correctly. This causes the drum to sit too far to one side so that the end cap retention screw hits the frame and the drum will not spin. The end cap retention screw on the same drum is cross threaded and there is debris rattling around inside the roller.

The correctly pressed bearing is on the right.


Cross threaded retention screw hitting the frame...





-Tim-
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Old 01-03-17, 11:42 AM
  #81  
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That's too bad. What is that screw doing there?
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Old 01-03-17, 11:47 AM
  #82  
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Time for warranty replacement.
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Old 01-03-17, 12:48 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
My sense of balance isn't what it used to be and I have had some episodes of vertigo in the past requiring medical treatment.

The information you provided in your post was extremely helpful and instrumental in my choice. You were doing really well up until the laughing and had earned my utmost respect up until then.

When I'm tempted to think I'm better than someone I try to remind myself that I really don't know what they are going through at this particular moment in their lives. As they say, there go I but for the grace of God, or if you prefer, dumb luck. Take your pick.


PAX
-Tim-
Doorway here, too. IMO the emoji was just about having a sense of humor because we all have those moments. I rode in a doorway for, I don't know, maybe the first 12 years I had my rollers. Then that doorway was lost in a remodel. Now I ride next to a post I can wrap my arm around to mount. It's close enough that I can bounce my shoulder off it without going off, yet it doesn't interfere with the bar or pedaling. Highly recommended. Those stunt roller riders on youtube are not me and I don't have a problem with that. My only problem is occasionally missing a roller workout. I'm not sure which is worse, missing or regretting.

It's 35° outside now which means it will be about 45° in my shop. I'll still need the fan. My workout for today is just an hour of zone 1 with 30' of steady zone 2 FastPedal in the middle. I'm down to ~112 rpm in my dotage, used to be 117. That's a great once-a-week recovery workout. Tomorrow I'll do 15' 70 rpm tempo intervals. Yay for resistance.
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Old 01-03-17, 12:50 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Very disappointed with the quality of the SportCrafters product.

The bearings on one of the drums are not pressed correctly. This causes the drum to sit too far to one side so that the end cap retention screw hits the frame and the drum will not spin. The end cap retention screw on the same drum is cross threaded and there is debris rattling around inside the roller.

The correctly pressed bearing is on the right.

-Tim-
It looks like the forward drum is the problem. Just space the nut out with washers until the replacement drum arrives. Tell them that's what you're doing and give a link to your post.
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Old 01-03-17, 12:51 PM
  #85  
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I suppose the screw holds the end cap on.

Not really sure I want a warranty replacement as opposed to just sending it back. Getting something like this really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Another reviewer had the exact same issue. Either Competitive/BackCountry sent me this guys defective parts or SportCrafter's has a systemic problem.

There is something fundamentally wrong when your rollers arrive and they don't roll. Out of the box the front roller did not roll because the bearing was not completely pressed. On the black cap of the roller you will find a raised bearing. That is supposed to be flush with the black cap. How hard would it be to spin the roller after assembly? I would not suggest this product.

UPDATE: Competitive Cyclist has been great. They sent out a second set of rollers and set-up the return of the afore mentioned rollers. The second set of rollers are not great. One of the bearings is not completely pressed and there are debris in two of the rollers that make noise when spun. These rollers have had good reviews, but I have not had a good experience. I'll be going with another company.

SportCrafters OverDrive Pro Rollers | Competitive Cyclist

-Tim-
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Old 01-03-17, 01:04 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
It looks like the forward drum is the problem. Just space the nut out with washers until the replacement drum arrives. Tell them that's what you're doing and give a link to your post.

Not a chance in hell.

There is debris inside the roller - that could be part of the bearing or a piece of plastic cracked off the inside of the end cap. The end cap retention screw is cross threaded and there is now way to know how well it is holding the end cap on. It probably won't be a problem short term but I'm not taking the risk of catastrophic failure while riding, no matter how small, especially when I've never ridden rollers before.

So no, isn't going to happen. I'm printing the UPS shipping label for the return right now.


-Tim-
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Old 01-03-17, 01:34 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Very disappointed with the quality of the SportCrafters product.

The bearings on one of the drums are not pressed correctly. This causes the drum to sit too far to one side so that the end cap retention screw hits the frame and the drum will not spin. The end cap retention screw on the same drum is cross threaded and there is debris rattling around inside the roller.

The correctly pressed bearing is on the right.


Cross threaded retention screw hitting the frame...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOqUtaTVt-E


-Tim-
You ordered from Comp Cyclist?

They might have sent you an "as new" return. Something fishy going on there or shipping damage, although that cross threaded screw is an assembly issue.

Nevertheless, that sucks. If the issue is just that drum instead of sending the entire set back I'd just forward those photos and videos...they should send a replacement no questions asked.
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Old 01-03-17, 01:47 PM
  #88  
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Hmm. Someone's been shipping contraband in the drums?
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Old 01-03-17, 02:03 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Hmm. Someone's been shipping contraband in the drums?
The President Elect isn't going to be happy about this.

Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
You ordered from Comp Cyclist?
BackCountry, yeah. They had it on sale.

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Old 01-03-17, 03:51 PM
  #90  
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Send 'em back and get Kreitlers...you will not be disappointed.
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Old 01-04-17, 08:58 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Not a chance in hell.

There is debris inside the roller - that could be part of the bearing or a piece of plastic cracked off the inside of the end cap. The end cap retention screw is cross threaded and there is now way to know how well it is holding the end cap on. It probably won't be a problem short term but I'm not taking the risk of catastrophic failure while riding, no matter how small, especially when I've never ridden rollers before.

So no, isn't going to happen. I'm printing the UPS shipping label for the return right now.


-Tim-
I emailed the president of Sportscrafters about your problem and this is his reply:
Hi David; thanks for the forward.

I don't have an account with that forum, so it won't let me post.

The problem he's describing isn't quality, it's caused by a very hard smack on the end of the drum which causes one of the inner bearing shoulders to snap off, which allows the drum to migrate to one side and the inner shoulder then rattles around inside the drum as he's described. It's very rare, I've only had to warranty a few dozen over the 20 years of producing this design but if there is a common handling condition (shipping, the user, etc) which allows the roller to be abused like that, it could happen more than once. We are happy to replace these damaged drums for the lifetime of the product.

We are the largest volume roller manufacturer in the world, we started by making the Nashbar brand of rollers 20 years ago, our brand, CycleOps (which we've been making for almost 17 years), Planet X (europe) and now Feedback Sports. We have made countless thousands of drums for rollers, the Omnium trainer, and trike trainers, all using the same design that we continue to evolve with quality enhancements. Many of our rollers are still in use after 20 years, and many have thousands of miles. We know how long belts last, because customers will contact us after almost exactly 10 years of hard use for a new belt. With a lifetime warranty and a reputation to protect with our private label customers, we can't afford poor quality.

But, we also can't afford to make everything completely bomb-proof for the few time it may see abuse outside of normal handling. Bicycles and wheels are no different; to be performance machines, their design margins are very skinny, and will fail if the rider is too heavy, roads too harsh, etc. Aluminum bikes made by the top manufacturers will fatigue if you use them in a trainer because the rear triangle can't tolerate the fatigue twisting load of being clamped in (I've seen several bikes by Giant and Cannondale that have failed from trainer use).

And unfortunately, like all manufacturers, we get caught with random bad material.. over the years we've suffered thru some small batches of bad bearings, bad end cap material (contaminated) and bad axle end cuts. These have caused patches of failures that we've covered without question around the world. But each time we investigate the root causes and take advance measures. Bearings are now single-sourced to one factory with our own controlled specs on ball roundness and race dimensions. End caps are molded locally, and we only buy material from a single validated source. Axles are now lazer-cut rather than sheared, etc. The quest for the best quality never ceases.

I appreciate your support, and your sharing. I am hopeful that we can continue to earn your support and look forward to knowing what we can do to earn it.


Pete Colan
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Old 01-04-17, 08:58 AM
  #92  
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Roller replacement

The problem you're showing is caused by the drum(s) taking a hard hit on the end of the axle, which can snap off the inner bearing shoulder on one side, causing not only the drum to migrate to one side but also the noise you hear (which is the inner shoulder). This can happen during shipment. It's extremely rare, we've only seen a few dozen in the last 20 years (after many thousands of drums produced for all the brands we supply) and the shoulder has been beefed up several times over the 20 year life of the mold but we can't anticipate all the abuse it may see. We still support all of the original rollers we built that are in still service after two decades with new belts and feet that typically wear out with time, and are happy to do it!

The screw is there for dynamic balance.. we use a 2-plane dynamic balancer to identify any slight dynamic imbalance and use screws to offset, much like wheel weights on your car. It serves no other purpose.

We have always honored lifetime warranty on our rollers regardless if you're the original purchaser. Please accept our apologies for the damaged drums you've received, and allow us to get you rolling again! --Pete
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Old 01-04-17, 09:14 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by SportCrafters View Post
The problem you're showing is caused by the drum(s) taking a hard hit on the end of the axle, which can snap off the inner bearing shoulder on one side, causing not only the drum to migrate to one side but also the noise you hear (which is the inner shoulder). This can happen during shipment. It's extremely rare, we've only seen a few dozen in the last 20 years (after many thousands of drums produced for all the brands we supply) and the shoulder has been beefed up several times over the 20 year life of the mold but we can't anticipate all the abuse it may see. We still support all of the original rollers we built that are in still service after two decades with new belts and feet that typically wear out with time, and are happy to do it!

The screw is there for dynamic balance.. we use a 2-plane dynamic balancer to identify any slight dynamic imbalance and use screws to offset, much like wheel weights on your car. It serves no other purpose.

We have always honored lifetime warranty on our rollers regardless if you're the original purchaser. Please accept our apologies for the damaged drums you've received, and allow us to get you rolling again! --Pete


Mr. Colan

As the original poster and one with the rollers, I do appreciate the response and it is comforting to know that the issue is shipping damage and not manufacturing quality. The offer to warranty the drum in spite of it not being a manufacturing defect is most generous. Thanks you.

The rollers have been sent back to Competitive Cyclist/Backcountry and I've asked that a replacement set be sent. The idea of progressive resistance appeals to me and the many reviews about how well this product works have me wanting to give them a second try. I'm waiting to hear back from Backcountry on shipping a new set.

Again, I do appreciate the response and the generous offer to warranty what is really shipping damage.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 01-04-17 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 01-06-17, 04:01 PM
  #94  
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The new set of rollers came today.

They were packed differently. The first set was in a SportCrafters box which was pretty beat up and had clearly been wet. This set was in the same type of box but that was inside another shipping carton and both were pristine. I really think I got someone's returned item. If you buy from Competitive/Backcountry then check everything for wear and damage and don't hesitate to send it back.

As for riding them, I fell.

Going to admit this publicly, in my excitement I got on them backwards. Yep, front wheel where the back wheel was supposed to be. Rode them about 60 seconds, decided I could let go of the wall and down I went. No damage to man or machine. Tried again the right way and it took about ten minutes before I was riding without holding onto the wall.

I have nothing to compare these to but was surprised at how much resistance there is. It takes some effort and after practicing for a while, stopping a million times, etc., I was able to get in two solid sessions, one each on the fixed gear and road bike. Definitely going to be some good workouts.

They magnify every fault and really reward smoothness. Dead spots in the pedal stroke stand out, especially on the fixed gear and I've a newfound respect for the guys on youtube who make it look easy.


-Tim-
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Old 01-06-17, 06:09 PM
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^Totally how it is. Usually this time of year I've started doing one-legged pedaling workouts on the rollers with the lazy foot wedged in the frame triangle. No chain slack allowed. That's meant to be aspirational. This year though I'm going to keep on with the once-a-week long FastPedal interval and not switch it to OLP until I start my more climbing-heavy riding in the spring. On my set, I FastPedal in my 39 X 25 but my set probably has less resistance than yours. OTOH I'm probably weaker.

I've fallen a few times. I usually get a pedal cut on my calf.
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Old 01-06-17, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by vze23c3q View Post
Send 'em back and get Kreitlers...you will not be disappointed.
There is no such thing as disappointment with Kreitlers. Maybe the wrong choice, never disappointment.
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Old 01-06-17, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
...
They magnify every fault and really reward smoothness. Dead spots in the pedal stroke stand out, especially on the fixed gear and I've a newfound respect for the guys on youtube who make it look easy.


-Tim-
Tim,
Thing is that was what riding was all about in 70s/80s/90s. Just that the stupid kill joy power meters showed us a stomping produces more power.
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Old 01-06-17, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
OTOH I'm probably weaker.
This made me laugh. I would not bet on it.
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Old 01-06-17, 09:55 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Tim,
Thing is that was what riding was all about in 70s/80s/90s. Just that the stupid kill joy power meters showed us a stomping produces more power.
Yes, but only more power for short periods. Power meters also show us that smooth pedaling produces less fatigue over longer periods of time. The modern focus on crits and short TTs has changed things. It's good to be able to do both. On rollers, you can feel how what you need to do changes as you gradually move to harder gears while holding cadence. The smaller muscles give up the ghost first. The more training you have at smooth pedaling at higher power levels, the longer you can hold on to it as the road kicks up. Obviously. And thus the more endurance you'll have on a long hard road ride or race.
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Old 01-06-17, 10:07 PM
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So, you in the doorway or not?

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